Braun to move to RF for 2014?

[jerichoholicninja]

so who leads off?

 

Someone with a high OBP. It really doesn't matter. There is no such thing as a "lead off hitter."

[TooLiveBrew]

No Attanasio believes he owes it to loyal fans to put the best product on the field every year. Knowing you are not going to the postseason every year doesn't mean you don't try to every year. What the Cubs and Astros are doing is a joke.

So was it a joke what the Pirates were doing 2 or 3 or 4 years ago? What about the Athletics 2-6 years ago?

 

Sometimes a team has to recognize that the best plan is to build a foundation, & not simply try to paper over the cracks from one year to the next & hope everything breaks in their favor. It doesn't impress me or make me feel grateful that a club will "put the best product on the field", if that product is a .500-ish club like the Brewers were, objectively, heading into 2013.

[monty57]

This is exactly what I was hoping to hear for next year's outfield. I personally have no concerns about Braun playing RF, and I don't think he's going to gripe about it. Actually, if it helps the team and makes him appear to be more of a "team player," he'd probably be happy about it. Davis or a Davis/Gindl platoon in LF should be better than Aoki would provide and will cost 1/3 as much, and we should be able to get something of value for Aoki in trade.

 

This is a leap of faith and also appears to be a case of "small market mentality" to the extreme. Gindl really hasn't proven anything and Aoki has been a solid contributor for 2 full years. Is the 1/3 the cost argument really relevant when we're talking about the $1.5M Aoki will get? That's nothing. What does the saved $1M prevent us from doing? At that minimal cost, it should be about winning games and not stockpiling peanuts.

 

If $1,000,000 is so paltry, then I'd gladly accept $1,000,000 from anyone who wants to give it to me. It's easy to say "it's only $1,000,000, so who cares," but that's the attitude that leads to bad financial situations. The team is probably already overbudget for next season, so any cuts will be helpful, especially if there is any desire to add someone to fill a hole in the roster.

 

If there was no one to replace him with, then I wouldn't think it would make sense to trade him, but we have five MLB-ready OF without Aoki. Braun and Gomez are no-brainers, and both Gindl and Davis (in limited reps) outplayed Aoki this year.

[trwi7]

No Attanasio believes he owes it to loyal fans to put the best product on the field every year. Knowing you are not going to the postseason every year doesn't mean you don't try to every year. What the Cubs and Astros are doing is a joke.

So was it a joke what the Pirates were doing 2 or 3 or 4 years ago? What about the Athletics 2-6 years ago?

 

Sometimes a team has to recognize that the best plan is to build a foundation, & not simply try to paper over the cracks from one year to the next & hope everything breaks in their favor. It doesn't impress me or make me feel grateful that a club will "put the best product on the field", if that product is a .500-ish club like the Brewers were, objectively, heading into 2013.

 

[sarcasm]It was a huge joke when the Brewers did it from 2002-2005.[/sarcasm]

[FVBrewerFan]

I know this stating the obious for most here, but doesn't it depend on what you get back for Aoki? I just don't see why you would trade him just for the sake of trading him, since he has such a reasonable salary. But if you can get a good eal in return, then why not?

 

Basically, it's how I look at every player on the roster. Anyone is tradeable as long as you get the return you're looking for. If Aoki stays, he would be a great #4 OF and get plenty of ABs. If you trade him, that role goes to Gindl. Either way, I'm fine with it. I don't care what happens with Schaefer, he's not the type of player you go out of your way to find a spot. If he makes the team as the #5 OF, great. If not, go back to Nashville. Really shouldn't affect any decisions you're making about the OF.

[brwrsfan]

Unless they think Aoki can play CF (I don't), Schaefer has to make the roster. Sure, they can bring in other OF's too, but if we're only talking about in house options, Schaefer is the only one that can backup Gomez in CF, so he's going to make the roster as OF #5. Which is fine, he plays plus defense at all 3 spots. But they aren't going to go into the season with only one guy on the roster who can play CF.

[danzig6767]

No Attanasio believes he owes it to loyal fans to put the best product on the field every year. Knowing you are not going to the postseason every year doesn't mean you don't try to every year. What the Cubs and Astros are doing is a joke.

So was it a joke what the Pirates were doing 2 or 3 or 4 years ago? What about the Athletics 2-6 years ago?

 

Sometimes a team has to recognize that the best plan is to build a foundation, & not simply try to paper over the cracks from one year to the next & hope everything breaks in their favor. It doesn't impress me or make me feel grateful that a club will "put the best product on the field", if that product is a .500-ish club like the Brewers were, objectively, heading into 2013.

 

I get what you are saying, but i don't think the Pirates are a good example. In their run of futility, they often made puzzling moves acquiring veterans in hopes of winning just 80 games, but failed miserably at even doing that. Then they also would draft poorly more often than not given how high they consistently were picking. It's only been recently that they've finally started hitting with all of their high draft picks.

 

It took them finally hitting on some high picks and acquiring three veteran starters in Burnett, Liriano, and Wandy Rodriguez. I'd say Oakland is a much better example of what you're trying to point out than Pittsburgh. Beane has consistently followed a certain strategy of trying to mostly keep an influx of cheap young talent given his financial constraints and sprinkle in veterans when he feels he has a team that can compete for the playoffs in any given year.

[TooLiveBrew]

No Attanasio believes he owes it to loyal fans to put the best product on the field every year. Knowing you are not going to the postseason every year doesn't mean you don't try to every year. What the Cubs and Astros are doing is a joke.

So was it a joke what the Pirates were doing 2 or 3 or 4 years ago? What about the Athletics 2-6 years ago?

 

Sometimes a team has to recognize that the best plan is to build a foundation, & not simply try to paper over the cracks from one year to the next & hope everything breaks in their favor. It doesn't impress me or make me feel grateful that a club will "put the best product on the field", if that product is a .500-ish club like the Brewers were, objectively, heading into 2013.

 

I get what you are saying, but i don't think the Pirates are a good example. In their run of futility, they often made puzzling moves acquiring veterans in hopes of winning just 80 games, but failed miserably at even doing that. Then they also would draft poorly more often than not given how high they consistently were picking. It's only been recently that they've finally started hitting with all of their high draft picks.

 

It took them finally hitting on some high picks and acquiring three veteran starters in Burnett, Liriano, and Wandy Rodriguez. I'd say Oakland is a much better example of what you're trying to point out than Pittsburgh. Beane has consistently followed a certain strategy of trying to mostly keep an influx of cheap young talent given his financial constraints and sprinkle in veterans when he feels he has a team that can compete for the playoffs in any given year.

The bolded part is why I specified the past 3-4 seasons (or so). Basically, when Neal Huntington took the reins at GM, imo they started building intelligently for the future.

[Baldkin]

Unless they think Aoki can play CF (I don't), Schaefer has to make the roster. Sure, they can bring in other OF's too, but if we're only talking about in house options, Schaefer is the only one that can backup Gomez in CF, so he's going to make the roster as OF #5. Which is fine, he plays plus defense at all 3 spots. But they aren't going to go into the season with only one guy on the roster who can play CF.

 

He can and he has before, he started 15 (?) games there last year. He isn't Carlos Gomez or Mike Cameron out there (no one is, really), but he's no worse than Choo is for the Reds. If he's playing there once a week at most, there is no real downside.

[endaround]

No Attanasio believes he owes it to loyal fans to put the best product on the field every year. Knowing you are not going to the postseason every year doesn't mean you don't try to every year. What the Cubs and Astros are doing is a joke.

So was it a joke what the Pirates were doing 2 or 3 or 4 years ago? What about the Athletics 2-6 years ago?

 

Sometimes a team has to recognize that the best plan is to build a foundation, & not simply try to paper over the cracks from one year to the next & hope everything breaks in their favor. It doesn't impress me or make me feel grateful that a club will "put the best product on the field", if that product is a .500-ish club like the Brewers were, objectively, heading into 2013.

 

It was totally worth Pittsburgh wasting a few years of McCuthen's prime to get top Pittsburgh prospects like Russell Martin, AJ Burnett, and Francisco Liariano ready for the big leagues.

[TooLiveBrew]

No Attanasio believes he owes it to loyal fans to put the best product on the field every year. Knowing you are not going to the postseason every year doesn't mean you don't try to every year. What the Cubs and Astros are doing is a joke.

So was it a joke what the Pirates were doing 2 or 3 or 4 years ago? What about the Athletics 2-6 years ago?

 

Sometimes a team has to recognize that the best plan is to build a foundation, & not simply try to paper over the cracks from one year to the next & hope everything breaks in their favor. It doesn't impress me or make me feel grateful that a club will "put the best product on the field", if that product is a .500-ish club like the Brewers were, objectively, heading into 2013.

 

It was totally worth Pittsburgh wasting a few years of McCuthen's prime to get top Pittsburgh prospects like Russell Martin, AJ Burnett, and Francisco Liariano ready for the big leagues.

I don't follow what your point is. What other options in their farm system did the Pirates have to contend more quickly? Or how would not having made those acquisitions have resulted in putting some of McCutchen's prime seasons to better use?

[danzig6767]

 

I get what you are saying, but i don't think the Pirates are a good example. In their run of futility, they often made puzzling moves acquiring veterans in hopes of winning just 80 games, but failed miserably at even doing that. Then they also would draft poorly more often than not given how high they consistently were picking. It's only been recently that they've finally started hitting with all of their high draft picks.

 

It took them finally hitting on some high picks and acquiring three veteran starters in Burnett, Liriano, and Wandy Rodriguez. I'd say Oakland is a much better example of what you're trying to point out than Pittsburgh. Beane has consistently followed a certain strategy of trying to mostly keep an influx of cheap young talent given his financial constraints and sprinkle in veterans when he feels he has a team that can compete for the playoffs in any given year.

The bolded part is why I specified the past 3-4 seasons (or so). Basically, when Neal Huntington took the reins at GM, imo they started building intelligently for the future.

 

I don't know that Huntington did anything all that special about supposedly building for the future besides trading for Locke which in turn lead to their 94 win season.

 

Look at their roster this year which finally got the Pirates into the postseason. To me, it was mainly Huntington hitting big on three veteran starters Burnett/Liriano/Rodriguez, signing 30 year old Martin, trading for 28 year old Melancon, 33 year old Grilli having a career year at closer, and high draft picks like McCutchen, Alvarez, Cole, etc finally panning out after years of them mostly drafting busts with top 10 picks.

[torts]

 

I don't know that Huntington did anything all that special about supposedly building for the future besides trading for Locke which in turn lead to their 94 win season.

 

Look at their roster this year which finally got the Pirates into the postseason. To me, it was mainly Huntington hitting big on three veteran starters Burnett/Liriano/Rodriguez, signing 30 year old Martin, trading for 28 year old Melancon, 33 year old Grilli having a career year at closer, and high draft picks like McCutchen, Alvarez, Cole, etc finally panning out after years of them mostly drafting busts with top 10 picks.

 

trades huntington has made to lead up to this team today (bolded players still on 2013 roster):

 

traded Xavier Nady to NYY for Jose Tabata and Jeff Karstans

traded McClouth to ATL for Charlie Morton and Jeff Locke

traded Morgan/Burnett to WASH for Hanrahan

traded Dotel to LAD for MacDonald and Lambo (huge reason for last years success until JMAc fell apart)

Aquired Grilli from the Phillies in August 2011

traded Lincoln to TOR for Chris Snider

traded Gorksy Hernandez to MIA for Gaby Sanchez

traded three players for Wandy Rodriguez

traded hanrahan for Melancon and co.

traded for Byrd and Morneau this year for scraps

 

huntington did a great job finding talent in other franchises and aquiring them for players performing above their actual value. and he's done all of this basically since the trade deadline in the 2008 season.

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't see the Pirates has having built anything that's lasting either. They struck gold on Burnett, Grilli, and Liriano, guys other teams had given up and passed over on.

 

The Brewers fell to the bottom in 2002, not out of some grand design, but poor drafting and decision making by the likes of Bando and Dean Taylor. Once at bottom they did the right thing and built from within. This team isn't near where they were from 2000-2002.

[trwi7]

I loved those trades for Byrd and Morneau. Filled needs on a team but didn't break the bank to acquire those players. They still have a ton of pieces in their farm system to make a move for someone like Stanton if they wanted to.

[brewcrewdue80]

so who leads off?

 

Back on Task. If Braun moves to RF and Davis to LF with Gomez in CF.

 

You have to believe a revolving door involving Gennett/Segura. Would the team bat Braun 2nd? with Segura 1st? Maybe throwing Gomez 3rd/Ramirez 4th/Lucroy 5th/Davis 6th?

 

Or do they bat Lucroy 2nd? Segura 1st,Braun,Ramirez,Davis/Gomez order?

 

That's how I see it. Segura bats leadoff when you remove Aoki and insert Davis, being the power hitter Davis is you figure a 5th/6th in order spot.

 

And what is 1b yet?

 

Personally, if we take Aoki out with the makeups of the lineup I'd go Segura,Braun 1,2. just to keep speed/OB atop the lineup. If Gomez was better getting OB he'd be perfect for #2 but he just doesn't do it. Lucroy batting 2nd makes sense on the OB part, but not when looking at the speed part. And Lucroy batting ahead of Braun negates potentially hard running Doubles/triples he may try taking on the paths but can't with slower Lucroy.

 

I don't like the Segura/Gennett combo ahead of Braun at the moment until 1 of the 2 begins taking seeing eye BBs. And when you look at the power of Braun/Ramirez/Gomez/Davis I don't like the idea of sliding them down with Lucroy in the mix for 5/6 to bat Gomez/Davis 6/7.

 

My lineup would just wind up being: Segura/Braun/Lucroy/Ramirez/Davis/Gomez/Gennett/1b/

 

If Hart signs back maybe Segura/Hart/Braun/Ramirez/Lucroy/Gomez/Gennett/Davis?

 

Let's face it, no one is going to really be an ideal option removing Aoki.

[monty57]

Barring a trade, a few things are probably "set in stone." Braun at 3 and Ramirez at 4 are two of those things. I think it's pretty likely that Hart will be brought back, and he will very likely be #5.

 

The rest of the lineup will build around that. Since the lineup will change many times next year, I don't think it's really important to work out every spot, but having some "anchors" is nice. As to leadoff, there are several options, all of them with positives and negatives when it comes to leading off. I think Segura would be the best fit at leadoff to start the season.

 

But, the important thing, and the main topic of discussion in this thread is whether it makes sense to move Braun to RF to allow Davis to play LF. I think that trading Aoki and moving Braun to RF would be a good idea. The positives of saving money and getting something of value in the Aoki trade while opening up a spot in the crowded OF for our promising young players outweigh the negative of not having a "traditional" leadoff hitter. Plus, if we don't trade Aoki, I doubt they'll move Braun to RF, and if Braun isn't in RF, then Davis will not see much playing time.

[Bombers]

Barring a trade, a few things are probably "set in stone." Braun at 3 and Ramirez at 4 are two of those things. I think it's pretty likely that Hart will be brought back, and he will very likely be #5.

 

The rest of the lineup will build around that. Since the lineup will change many times next year, I don't think it's really important to work out every spot, but having some "anchors" is nice. As to leadoff, there are several options, all of them with positives and negatives when it comes to leading off. I think Segura would be the best fit at leadoff to start the season.

 

But, the important thing, and the main topic of discussion in this thread is whether it makes sense to move Braun to RF to allow Davis to play LF. I think that trading Aoki and moving Braun to RF would be a good idea. The positives of saving money and getting something of value in the Aoki trade while opening up a spot in the crowded OF for our promising young players outweigh the negative of not having a "traditional" leadoff hitter. Plus, if we don't trade Aoki, I doubt they'll move Braun to RF, and if Braun isn't in RF, then Davis will not see much playing time.

I would see Lucroy in the 5. I just don't see why to move a career .303 hitter with RISP. He just seems to dominate in those situations. Also, with Hart coming off a year long injury, I just seem him as a 6 hitter at best. (Until injuries either force him out or move him up)

 

The other item is, what if they do not sign Hart? What about keeping Aoki and putting Braun at first? If Mitch Haniger continues to dominate the minors and tears up AA in 2014, he could have a real possiblity of being on the big league club for 2015. (Same time Aoki would become a FA)

[Invader3K]

I really don't see Braun moving to 1B in the near future. He is much too athletic to be wasted at that position. I think he can handle RF just fine, and we have a glut of outfielders. A trade really should happen. Why can't we deal Aoki for a first baseman, for example?

[trwi7]

I would imagine Aoki doesn't have the value of a good 1st baseman.

[torts]

I would imagine Aoki doesn't have the value of a good 1st baseman.

 

if Tom Keeling brought back Juan Francisco, i'd think Aoki could bring back someone of decent value...

[trwi7]

An average, 30 something corner outfielder with one year of control left is probably going to return an average, 30 something first baseman. In that case, you might as well just sign Hart and use Aoki to fetch the best prospect you can.

[djoctagone]

mark attanasio, doug melvin, ron roenicke and ryan braun had lunch last weekend. they talked about braun moving to right field, and apparently, he's open to the idea.

[3and2Fastball]

Davis had a reverse split this year (albeit in a very small sample) hitting RHP better than LHP

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=daviskh01&year=2013&t=b

 

They probably will use Segura as a lead-off hitter because of his base stealing ability, but as someone else said, the lead-off hitter should be the player with the best OBP. I think Roenicke is too much of a Traditionalist to understand that though. Segura's OBP last year was .329, that really isn't good enough for a lead-off hitter. It is an organizational problem, though, the Brewers don't have very many patient hitters who draw walks.

 

I'd rather see Khris Davis playing (almost) every day, instead of being in a platoon.

 

Really they should move Braun to 1B instead of RF

[TURBO]

mark attanasio, doug melvin, ron roenicke and ryan braun had lunch last weekend. they talked about braun moving to right field, and apparently, he's open to the idea.

 

got a link to that information?