Milwaukee Bucks Thread 2009–2010 (part 2)

[trwi7]

Missed the another team part. He could still technically get 6 years, $125 million from another team, but Cleveland and whoever he wants to sign with would have to agree to a sign and trade.

[dadofandrew]

I'd sign with the Clips or the Nets, but few players think like I do, hence, I see the Knicks, Bulls, or Heat.

[davego]

the NBA would be weird if most of the players thought like Al.

[Baldkin]

I don't see the big difference if Lebron goes to the Bulls. They're both in our division, so they basically become the Cavs (maybe a bit better). We still have to go thru him anyways.

They become a LOT better version of the Cavs.

Rose, Deng and Noah are probably better than anyone on the Cavs, other than LeBron. It's very, very rare for one guy to win a title by himself, without another top 25 guy in the league. LeBron probably doesn't even have another top 50 guy on the team with him in Cleveland.

[Gobias Industries]

I tend to disagree.

 

Noah isn't really any better than AV when you factor in defense. Both are garbage men on offense.

 

Rose > Mo, but he's also really, really overrated. They have similar skill sets, as they're both more of a shoot first PG. Rose should be a lot better than Mo in a few years time though.

 

Deng was a great prospect 3 years ago, but he's stagnated. He's slightly better than Jamison, but not by much. Bad contract too.

 

People really overstate the "Lebron doesn't have enough help" angle. Sure, it's not like Lakers rotation, but Lebron is a lot better than Kobe at this point. This years cavs team was an elite team that had a terrible coach. Compound that with Lebron playing like crap, and it's easier to understand why they lost the series.

[homer]

I'd be surprised if the Cavs won 40 games without Lebron. They are not good at all without him. The year after Jordan retired (the first time) the Bulls won 55 games.

[jjfanec]

I tend to disagree.

 

Noah isn't really any better than AV when you factor in defense. Both are garbage men on offense.

 

Rose > Mo, but he's also really, really overrated. They have similar skill sets, as they're both more of a shoot first PG. Rose should be a lot better than Mo in a few years time though.

 

Deng was a great prospect 3 years ago, but he's stagnated. He's slightly better than Jamison, but not by much. Bad contract too.

 

People really overstate the "Lebron doesn't have enough help" angle. Sure, it's not like Lakers rotation, but Lebron is a lot better than Kobe at this point. This years cavs team was an elite team that had a terrible coach. Compound that with Lebron playing like crap, and it's easier to understand why they lost the series.

The Cavs were terrible outside of LeBron. Rose is much better than Mo. Mo is a horrible, horrible defender and does outside of game 6 he stunk it up over the playoffs. Mo had a similar fg % getting wide open looks where Rose had to create for himself.

Noah is a more talented player than AV. AV does the dirty work but Noah is a better rebounding and a has more offensive upside.

Deng is much better than you give him credit for. He is better than Jamison in every regard. Better fg, 3 pt and FT percentage and a much better defender. Jamison got abused that Celtic series.

Rose is much better than Williams in my mind, Noah is a little better than AV but has potential to be a good amount better, and Deng is better than Jamison. That is three guys who are better than the three guys he would be leaving, so it is safe to assume the Bulls would be a fair amount better than the Cavs with Lebron.

 

All three of those guys are better than what the Cavs have. The Lebron does not have any help angle is completely legit. When LeBron is not on that team has no chance to beat good teams. The Bulls would have a chance to beat good teams without Lebron. Without Lebron the Cavs will be a lottery team for the future. They were overmatched at every position outside of Lebron against the Celtics.

[Gobias Industries]

Andrew Bogut led a team to 46 wins this season with much worse supporting cast than the Cavs. And without him we're a lottery team. Great players should carry their teams.

 

It's completely overblown. A few years ago, there was a legitimate gripe with his cast (gooden, larry hughes, darius miles, etc), but now, I'm not seeing it. People were praising the job Ferry did during the regular season, and because Lebron choked, he's now being crucified for it.

 

For the record, I hate Mo Williams. He's probably the player I dislike the most in the NBA. I just think Rose is overrated (I see people calling him a top 5 pg quite often). He's better than Mo, but it's not like he's elite either. For comparison, I like Jennings upside more, because he's a true pg and has some "it" factors that cannot be taught.

 

I think you're underselling AV. He's right up there with Howard and Bogut for top defensive bigs in the league. Noah is a good rebounder, but a pretty poor man defender. AV has better size too.

 

You're probably right Deng is a better overall player than Jamison. Jamison is a 4 that can stretch the floor though. Deng is a 3. He has no post game. Jamison is crafty under the basket and can hit the three ball at a 35% clip.

 

Like I originally stated, I really don't care where Lebron goes (as long as it isn't something crazy like the Lakers). You still have to go thru him to win a championship regardless.

[trwi7]

Rumor going around that Delonte West was having an affair with LeBron's mom and that's why he played so terribly. No joke.

[Mr QL]

Best. rumor. ever.

 

I been crackin up last 10 minutes reading about it

 

I love Delonte

[Baldkin]

I'd say Rose is for sure top 5 in the NBA in PGs.

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, and Rose.

Mo on the other hand, might be lucky to crack the top 15.

If the Bucks played the Cavs, I'd argue the Bucks would've had the 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players in the series when healthy. Obviously LeBron is way above anyone the Bucks have, but still, that's just a lack of talent, that after... what... 7 years of LeBron should've been rectified in Cleveland, somehow.

[jjfanec]

All year I kept telling people the Cavs gm had done a terrible job surrounding LeBron with talent. He is got overrated players like Mo Williams or over the hill player like Shaq and Jamison. Most of the guys were guys who put up decent numbers on terrible teams (Mo and Jamison) and were not prime time guys. I kept hearing in the playoffs how the Cavs tried so hard to surround LeBron with talent but in their trying they failed miserably. Add that to having a below average coach, I would want to get out of Cleveland too.

 

If LeBron just wants to win and is not concerned about endorsements Chicago would be number 2 on the list, Miami would be number 1 if they have Wade, and I would actually have NJ up on the list with Lopez who is an emerging player, Devin Harris who is at least Mo Williams equal, and a high draft pick (potentially a John Wall type player). That team could have a huge turn around

 

Gobias, comparing Bogut and LeBron is really misleading. Jennings and Salmons are better than anyone on the Cavs outside of LeBron. Also who are all the pg's better than Rose? Paul, Williams, Nash, Rondo, and Parker, but he is easily number 6 with the potential to slide to 3 or 4 over the next year. Mo is probably in the 10-15 range, especially if you factor in his horrendous defense.

[trwi7]

I'd say Rose is for sure top 5 in the NBA in PGs.

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, and Rose.

I would take Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook over Rose fairly easily.

 

 

[Baldkin]

I'd say Rose is for sure top 5 in the NBA in PGs.

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, and Rose.

I would take Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook over Rose fairly easily.

Those were the two toughest for me. I really think Rose is better than both of them, and it would really show through if he weren't the best guy on his team. If he didn't have to create so much on offense for the Bulls.

[jjfanec]

I'd say Rose is for sure top 5 in the NBA in PGs.

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, and Rose.

I would take Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook over Rose fairly easily.

I like Parker but he has been hurt a lot recently, so it hard for me to take him over Rose. Rose has better shooting numbers than Westbrook, even though he is his teams only real option. He has higher fg and 3 pt %. Westbrook has one rebound more a game, and two more assists. TO are pretty similar although Rose has a little less. Considering Westbrook has Green and Durant it would make sense he would have a couple more assists a game, but his shots you would think he would get easier shots than Rose since Rose has to create for himself so much. I dont know why either Westbrook or Parker would be easy picks over Rose.

[Diskono]

I think Rose is overrated but it should be noted that I also really hate the Bulls http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Gobias Industries]

I'd say Rose is for sure top 5 in the NBA in PGs.

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, and Rose.

I would take Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook over Rose fairly easily.

 

Those six. I take Billups over him too. Jennings might be better by next year.

 

Rose is more of a combo guard in my opinion. Those types of players don't do much for me.

[JJHardy7]

I'd sign with the Clips or the Nets, but few players think like I do, hence, I see the Knicks, Bulls, or Heat.

 

I have a pure rumor from some die hard UK basketball fans...this is just a pure rumor with zero sources. UK fans are worried that Coach Cal might jump ship and go back to the Nets (that itself sounds very, very crazy). The logic here is that Coach Cal is pretty close with LeBron and has been spotted with some of LeBron's people at LeBron's game. LeBron has been spotted at a few UK games and...is pretty close with John Wall (that piece is pretty well known). The thought here is that the Nets would try to bring in Coach Cal, LeBron, and John Wall. IIRC I think Jay-Z has a small ownership piece of the Nets...and is close with LeBron.

 

I did a quick search and came up with this:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com...parker_robert&id=5192202

 

Like I said, this is pure rumors from UK fans who I'm sure are worried that Coach Cal might leave (even though he has said he is going to stay). That would be pretty crazy if it all happened...Coach Cal to the Nets is the first thing that has to happen and I have to imagine that might be unlikely.

[danzig6767]

I'd say Rose is for sure top 5 in the NBA in PGs.

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, and Rose.

I would take Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook over Rose fairly easily.

 

Those six. I take Billups over him too. Jennings might be better by next year.

 

Rose is more of a combo guard in my opinion. Those types of players don't do much for me.

I don't think Rose is a combo guard at all, he's every bit a run the team type of PG as Jennings is, both just like to score along with run the team. That said, basketball isn't just about offense and Westbrook is a much better defender than Rose is. As for who i'd rather have between Jennings and Rose, i'd take Rose but not by a large margin. Rose has much better size and is vastly vastly superior finishing in the paint. Where i like Jennings better is i think he has superior intangibles in the leadership department and he's a much better three point shooter. They obvious key as to how good Brandon can become is just how much he improves at finishing in the paint and his midrange jumper. Jennings has the quickness to get in the lane against most opposing point guards, but he wasn't just poor at finishing in the paint, he was abysmal at it. Granted, he was a rookie and he needs to get stronger, but he has to both improve his shooting percentage big time and have much better shot selection.

 

Until Brandon can start making those shots in the paint at a much higher percentage and/or drawing more fouls, he'll have to learn to dish better once opposing defenses collapse on him inside instead of him looking to shoot so often where the end result was usually a missed or rejected shot.

[Mr QL]

I think Rose is great and all but he sorta has a Joe Johnson-esqe feel to me. He's very quiet and not much a leader.

[ILuvDaBush]

I always compared Derrick Rose to the Pistons' Rodney Stuckey, except with an actual basketball IQ. Rose actually knows his limitations and tends to put himself in a position to exploit his strengths. But both are encapsulated in combo-guard bodies with combo-guard games. Rose just can also run an NBA offense. As for Jennings, his biggest weakness 9 months ago was his swagger and his outside shot. Now, those are considered to be two of his biggest strengths. I feel like a Chicago Bull fan felt a year ago after watching D-Rose&Co. put on a clinic vs. the defending NBA champs in the first round. This season, D-Rose had a glass ceiling develop. He has a shaky outside shot that he has yet to address at all and he can be outran by the quicker points. Case in point, our point. They were probably the two best high school (point guard) prospects in their respective classes. Two completely different games. But while D-Rose may be physically bigger than BJ3, their psyche's are inversely Ostertag and Shaq, respectively. There is no bigger young personality in the league than our Young Buck. Throughout the season, we always saw BJ3 defer to Bogut and later Salmons. But late in the season, after the Bogut injury, you could see the maturation take shape. Now the best comparison I can come up with for their dynamic would be Puff Daddy/Biggy Smalls. Bogut will be the guy who will power the flight, but the guy flipping the switches, doing the little things, keeping the beats fresh and the egos in check will be Double Nickel Straight Outta Compton. Now we just need to get BJ3 a sugar cookie from Harlem and a glass of breast milk from a Cambodian immigrant.

[danzig6767]

I always compared Derrick Rose to the Pistons' Rodney Stuckey, except with an actual basketball IQ. Rose actually knows his limitations and tends to put himself in a position to exploit his strengths. But both are encapsulated in combo-guard bodies with combo-guard games. Rose just can also run an NBA offense. As for Jennings, his biggest weakness 9 months ago was his swagger and his outside shot. Now, those are considered to be two of his biggest strengths. I feel like a Chicago Bull fan felt a year ago after watching D-Rose&Co. put on a clinic vs. the defending NBA champs in the first round. This season, D-Rose had a glass ceiling develop. He has a shaky outside shot that he has yet to address at all and he can be outran by the quicker points. Case in point, our point. They were probably the two best high school (point guard) prospects in their respective classes. Two completely different games. But while D-Rose may be physically bigger than BJ3, their psyche's are inversely Ostertag and Shaq, respectively. There is no bigger young personality in the league than our Young Buck. Throughout the season, we always saw BJ3 defer to Bogut and later Salmons. But late in the season, after the Bogut injury, you could see the maturation take shape. Now the best comparison I can come up with for their dynamic would be Puff Daddy/Biggy Smalls. Bogut will be the guy who will power the flight, but the guy flipping the switches, doing the little things, keeping the beats fresh and the egos in check will be Double Nickel Straight Outta Compton. Now we just need to get BJ3 a sugar cookie from Harlem and a glass of breast milk from a Cambodian immigrant.

I love Brandon, but you're exaggerating some things in this post. First of all, Stuckey and Rose should never be mentioned anywhere near the same sentence.

 

As for Jennings always deferring, first to Bogut and then Salmons, i just ask were you actually watching the Bucks games? In the months before Salmons was acquired, Jennings shots per game were

 

15.5/19.2/16.4/15.0 That's not numbers of a guy unwilling to put up a lot of shots even as his shooting percentage was dropping off a cliff.

 

After Salmons came on board, Jennings certainly did shoot less and deferred more by averaging about 12.5spg in that time frame. That said, he should have done that deferring given he shot around 36% from the field in the time Salmons was on the roster.

 

As i said earlier, i love the way Jennings looked overall as a rookie PG for the Bucks. I'm very excited for his future. He will though need to really really improve his shooting percentage if Brandon ever wants to become a top tier NBA point guard, but all the intangibles seem to be there at least.

[nate82]

Maybe Squad 6 could do this next year?

 

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80990991/

[Mr QL]

I just want to reiterate that I don't want the Bucks to take Gordon Hayward. I'd take pretty much anyone over him. You don't draft on sentimental value. I see us picking him on some mock drafts. Taking Hayward would be even worse than when the Packers took Justin Harrell for me in terms of what I thought of the pick, at least I didn't see that one coming. Hayward measurements were not impressive at all, his wingspan is shorter than his height which is red flag to me. There really is no reason to take Hayward over Babbit who is bigger, longer, more athletic, and played in a much stronger conference besides the "HE PLAYED FOR BUTLER I LIKE HIM" factor. Didn't he play 4 in college? Honestly he has no business even being discussed in the top 20.

[craigharmann]

I just want to reiterate that I don't want the Bucks to take Gordon Hayward.

He reminds me of Joe Alexander. That scares me.