Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 2)

[brewcrew779]

Jeff Pissant is an idiot.

 

Everyone talks about how the container wasn't compromised. I was talking to my mom (who is a RN for what its worth) about it and she brought up a good point. When you are going to test a sample, no one is going to really check the label unless there is a reason to. So for them (the media) to say that the label wasn't compromised is complete [expletive deleted]. she said the label can be peeled and then re-stuck to the side of the container if someone really wants to. Saying it was tripled sealed is also a load of crap. It was in a plastic container, then put into a bag and then into a Tupperware container. I'm sure this doucher has access to labels as well and how hard can it be to duplicate someone's signature on a label. Braun offered a dna test and then MLB declined. He passed a lie detector test. There are people out there who can beat lie detectors, but I highly doubt they give that class at the U.

 

The more articles I read, the more pissed I get. Everyone wanted him stripped of his MVP if he was found guilty. The arbitrator ruled in his favor and people still want him stripped of his MVP. Statistics and previous tests prove that he hasn't been on anything. Why isn't that information being reported by all these media outlets?

 

edit: language --1992

[NievesNoNO]

IMO it is becoming increasinly unrealistic to suggest that anyone knowingly tampered with the samples. With no new information coming out recently in support of Braun it is becoming increasinly hard to believe that he didn't get off on a techniciality. I still hope there is some missing info here; and if there is I don't know why Braun hasn't addressed it yet.

 

I'm also hoping for some missing info. Honestly I'm a bit disappointed in what's out there so far. I don't really think there's enough info to completely judge one way or another but if no new information or facts about this case are provided I'm still having a hard time believing Braun.... as horrible as that makes me feel.

 

Really the thing that I'm trying to stand on is: 1) the ratio being 4 times higher than any MLB player tested 2) The fact he knew he would be tested. For him to come out and give the statement he made at the conference and be guilty would make him one of the most arrogant liars around. I really want to believe that that's not the case.

 

He has so much on the line with his long contract and business ventures in Milwaukee that I just can't believe he'd be that foolish. It's one thing to have the other teams fans dislike you but it's quite another to slap your home fans in the face. I hope with the entirety of the Brewers fan in me that he didn't lie to Milwaukee and the fans because I don't believe Milwaukee would be quite as forgiving as say, San Francisco.

 

Hopefully that didn't come off as too negative. The bottom line for me is that I'm still undecided without any new information.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Why isn't that information being reported by all these media outlets?

 

Probably because it doesn't create as much of a stir, and many of these writers have prior articles that jumped the gun on assuming Braun was a cheater. I think as long as MLB is publicly furious with the ruling, a good number of writers may not want to alienate themselves from their sources within that organization, and are presenting information accordingly.

 

The unfortunate thing about the timing of this arbitration decision for all parties involved is that it occurred during probably the slowest time in the sports calendar - that means all the sportswriters who would otherwise have plenty of other things to write about have spit out articles and blogs on the Braun case, oftentimes using old and inaccurate information from sources of previous articles. This is still a huge story, but it wouldn't have nearly as long a shelf life if this ruling came down at just about any other time of year.

[reillymcshane]

Braun will never be fully 'exonerated' in the eyes of most people until he has some reasonable explanation why the samples came out the way they did. To question the process it was handled is fine and gets him off his suspension, but most of the facts don't necessarily explain the test results. The facts are that the samples didn't appear to be tampered with, and most experts feel the samples would be fine, even after the 2 days in the collector's home.

 

If Ryan's team can come out and say, "We were able to recreate the elevated testosterone levels by doing X, Y and Z. We are not sure if this is how they got this high, but it is our main theory, since we don't know exactly what was done with the samples once they left the ballpark."

 

Will Carroll has alluded to 'repeatable results' - but we really don't know what was done to get the 'repeatable results'. I'm surprised Braun's team hasn't explained this aspect of their defense.

 

If the 'repeatable results' are clear and believable - example, if they said, "When we leave a sample sitting in 70 degree temperature for 24 hours, then move it to a refrigerator for 20 hours, then shake the samples vigorously, then transport them on a plane for two days, it causes a spike in testosterone levels. We did this test five times and got it to come up bad each time." Something like that people could believe. Now if it's something like, "If you put the samples in an oven at 450 degrees for 20 hours" - then you're talking about someone deliberately doing something to the samples to make them come out badly. This isn't flying for most people.

 

I think most people simply don't believe that the 'collector' would have done anything deliberate to mess with the samples. Now could he accidentally have done something? I think that's more understandable. Could he have accidentally left them out of the fridge for 44 hours? I think most people can believe that could happen. And if you can show how an accident like that would help create the high test levels, it's something most people could believe. The collector might just be trying to cover his butt if he made a mistake in the storage. That is something people can believe.

 

But someone sabotaging or tampering with Braun's sample just doesn't sound believable to most people.

 

I have to stress that this really, really sucks for Braun. No matter what he does, he'll be guilty in the eyes of many people. The biggest crime is that this ever came out. Ryan Braun, or any baseball player, should benefit from the strict testing process. He called into question that process - which is his right. He was smart to do so. And again, it's his right. Following every step of the process is essential to making the process a success. Deviating from the process should NEVER be done - or the results tossed.

 

But another part of the process is the confidentiality. That we are even talking about this is sad, because this shouldn't have come to light.

 

Braun or any other ball player should be given the benefit of the doubt in this situation. But people know too much to suspend judgement. Sadly, it should never have come out.

 

I hope Braunie can mount a better defense. Perhaps he's waiting for the arbitrator to release his notes (assuming those are made public). Maybe he's waiting for the arbitrator to explain the situation - and in doing so, it might actually explain some of the issues more clearly.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The two guys I trust the most who have either commented or played a role in this process are Will Carroll and Shyam Das. Carroll is a writer/blogger, but he has a very good reputation regarding medical/testing issues in sports - he knows what he's talking about. Shyam Das was revered by MLB for the entire time he was the independent arbitrator, right up until he levied a decision against MLB's wishes. I keep thinking that there's no way Das overturns Braun's suspension if his only defense was that "maybe this or that happened". He had to be shown additional evidence or information that swayed him away from ruling in MLB's favor like he's done every other time an appeal has occurred.

[DannoMac21]

You have to think that if the backlash becomes hectic enough, Braun will let details emerge, whether leaked or through himself.

[brwrsfan]

That's the thing about the seals. Unless they were just blatantly tampered with, the people at the testing agency aren't going to look at them twice. They may go through a checklist or something on each one (I doubt it) but they aren't examining each one with a magnifying glass or anything.

 

On top of that, when they get it, it's sample number 123456. They test hundreds of samples a day I presume. If 2-3 weeks later, or even 2-3 days later someone came to me and said "was sample 123456" seal ok? How could I possibly remember that? I probably didn't even look at it closely at all. So of course I'm going to say yes, as I'm supposed to be checking that stuff, but there is no possible way I can remember a numbered container out of the hundreds/thousands I have seen/done since that day.

[prophet]

Jeff Pissant is an idiot.

 

Everyone talks about how the container wasn't compromised. I was talking to my mom (who is a RN for what its worth) about it and she brought up a good point. When you are going to test a sample, no one is going to really check the label unless there is a reason to. So for them (the media) to say that the label wasn't compromised is complete bs. she said the label can be peeled and then re-stuck to the side of the container if someone really wants to. Saying it was tripled sealed is also a load of crap. It was in a plastic container, then put into a bag and then into a Tupperware container. I'm sure this doucher has access to labels as well and how hard can it be to duplicate someone's signature on a label. Braun offered a dna test and then MLB declined. He passed a lie detector test. There are people out there who can beat lie detectors, but I highly doubt they give that class at the U.

 

The more articles I read, the more pissed I get. Everyone wanted him stripped of his MVP if he was found guilty. The arbitrator ruled in his favor and people still want him stripped of his MVP. Statistics and previous tests prove that he hasn't been on anything. Why isn't that information being reported by all these media outlets?

 

 

Has anyone written to Jeff Passan and called him out on his reporting. I have and actually received an email in response from him answering my questions and defending what he wrote. But, i'm not very smart, so i was thinking maybe some of our smarter posters (pebadger), could have better results.

[zzzmanwitz]

Would you mind posting his response?

[prophet]

This is the email he wrote me back. It's pretty generic, but like I said, maybe a smarter poster could get something decent from him. But, I'm probably not that poster.

 

 

Matthew --

 

I'm happy to respond.

 

I've done research. I've spoken with a number of people involved in the arbitration hearing. I wouldn't write as confidently as I do if I didn't have information from sources I trust.

 

I cannot name these sources because they ask for anonymity in exchange for the truth. It's something my editors and I are willing to grant. Some ask for it because revealing the information could cost them their jobs. Others ask for it because Braun is a friend and they don't want to look like rats. As long as I tell the story like it really happened -- not as MLB or Braun wants to spin it -- I'm willing to sacrifice on-the-record quotes. I think it's a fair trade.

 

Plenty of people in the media and fans don't like my conclusions. They do respect my willingness to seek out facts, however, and I'd like to think you'd do the same even if you disagree with what I write.

 

I appreciate you reading and hope you continue to do so.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

[prophet]

I basically asked him why his opinion pieces are always so one sided without any opinions from reliable sources. He never quotes anyone and obviously hasn't talked to Das, who's opinion is basically the only one that matters.

[zzzmanwitz]

I still am holding on to hope that Aaron Rodgers knows A LOT about this situation, since he and Braun are close and I'm sure Braun felt confident in confiding in Rodgers as he is also a high profile athlete. Rodgers seems really confident that Braun is completely innocent and I just hope he isn't giving me false hope.

[prophet]

In times of trouble, you find out who your friends are, and Rodgers has been an awesome friend in my opinion.

[crewcrazy]

IMO it is becoming increasinly unrealistic to suggest that anyone knowingly tampered with the samples. With no new information coming out recently in support of Braun it is becoming increasinly hard to believe that he didn't get off on a techniciality. I still hope there is some missing info here; and if there is I don't know why Braun hasn't addressed it yet.

 

It's not a technicality/loophole if the one piece of evidence against him was ruled invalid. In the context of the case, what the test showed is irrelevant if protocol wasn't followed.

 

Statistics and previous tests prove that he hasn't been on anything. Why isn't that information being reported by all these media outlets?

 

Because those don't really prove anything. I disagree with Passan's coverage of this, but he's right in saying the 20-something previous clean tests aren't a defense, because everyone's clean until they test positive. How many times do you think Manny Ramirez tested clean before he got popped multiple times?

 

Braun was savvy enough to include the info about his weight and performance never changing in the press conference, because a lot of people eat it up. It sort of works for me, too, but I'm generally someone who's not convinced PEDs actually PE.

[TooLiveBrew]

To me, the biggest thing to be concerned about is how MLB was still trying to ram this suspension through (& its subsequent whining after the decision was reached), even though there was strong evidence to show that the process wasn't carried out properly.

 

I think there's a lot of assumption going on that Braun really has any real vindictive thoughts about the collector's role in the process (and good post in that vein, gregmag).

[fondybrewfan]

Of course the test was ruled invalid; but even that seems pretty questionable given that at this point because the error wasn't that outrageous and there has been no proof that the sample was tainted, that it wasn't properly stored, or that it was degraded when it got to Montreal.

 

Maybe the only reason Das ruled in favor of Braun was because the sample was kept at the guys house for 44 hours; if that really is the only reason that is incredibly weak in the absense of any kind of proof that the sample was tampered with, incorrectly stored, etc. Maybe just the fact that the sample sat there for 44 hours was enough for Braun to win but it certainly doesn't instill any confidence in me that Braun didn't do anything. There needs to be something more.

 

I know the chain of custody thing has beem hammered home here quite a bit and it certianly is good cause for winning the appeal; but it does nothing to show Braun's innocence because there has been no evidence at all the the chain in custody breach resulted in altering the outcome of the test. Sure Braun can't 100% prove that it altered his test but at the very least inquiring minds would like to know how it is possible that the 44 hour window changed the outcome of the test. To this point only Will Carrol has attempted to go down that road and I don't buy that other media organizations aren't pursuing that angle purely for sketchy reasons. If they had reason to believe that Will Carroll's info was accurate I am sure they would run the information. The Carroll stuff has been out for 3-4 days now and there has to be a reason no one else is reporting on it other than it doesn't fit there story profile.

[bylo tesi me]

IMO it is becoming increasinly unrealistic to suggest that anyone knowingly tampered with the samples. With no new information coming out recently in support of Braun it is becoming increasinly hard to believe that he didn't get off on a techniciality. I still hope there is some missing info here; and if there is I don't know why Braun hasn't addressed it yet.

I think Braun has some agreement with MLB not to release details that would damage the testing process. I know it's hard to believe considering the venom MLB is directing toward Braun, However Braun still has to work for MLB so it isn't unreasonable. Braun did say in his press conference he wouldn't go into all the details of his case, that he would put the interests of Baseball ahead of his own interests. And that it wouldn't be easy.

 

I find it really hard to believe Shayman Das (SP?) would rule in his Braun's favor just on the "technicality" of delayed shipment. There has to be much more to this than just that. Das ruled against players in the other 12 appeals he presided over, so it seems there had to be something really convincing to cause him to go against what he's ruled in the past and overturn Braun's test.

[RockCoCougars]

I don't know what to think with the article in today's paper quoting the 'experts' as saying that degradation could not have led to this result. 'Kill the messenger', but I also feel that this Dino guy likely did not violate MLB testing protocol. Was there a written policy at the time (I bet there is now) that disallowed keeping the sample on ice/in the fridge at home for a night or two? My guess is there was not, as the guy is still working for MLB.

 

Bottom line, my guess is that the truth will come out someday. I hope Braun is telling the truth. If he is not, one of his 'associates' will spill the beans. If he's found to be lying, his press conference will make the denials by Palmeiro and Bonds look like nothing (though it won't leave him open for perjury charges, I guess). I'm waiting to see whether he files a lawsuit. If he doesn't, I'll find that a little telling. You wouldn't file a lawsuit if you had skeletons in your own closet.

[pebadger]

My questions for people who have trouble believeing Braun. I ask these questions not to invalidate the opinion that Bruan may have done something, but to perhaps provide a different perspective in terms of how people think about the entire issue.

 

1) Why does Braun have to explain the test result is wrong? Why shoudn't MLB have to prove that it's right?

 

2) What evidence, other than a single disputed test result, leads you to believe that Bruan took a banned substance for the purpose of improving his performance on the baseball field?

 

3) Why should MLB's standard of viewing these cases through the narrow window of strict liability constrain people from taking a broader view of the case from their own perspective? Shouldn't people be allowed to make their own determinations on the case based on factors that are logically relevant to the issue, regardless of whether the are relevant only for the narrow purposes of the drug-testing system?

 

4) If you knew that the people who work for WADA labs are disallowed by WADA rules from assisting an athlete who has been accused of doping, through testimony or otherwise, would you be more or less willing to trust the experts from WADA? In other words, does the fact WADA will allow people with intimate knowledge of drug-testing only to use that knowledge when it is used to "convict", and that you will never hear a WADA-affiliated person publicly admit error with respect to any drug-testing case, bother you at all?

 

We will never know for certain what did or didn't happen with this particular case. What we do know for certain is that this case presents the public with yet another opportunity to learn more about how a lot of things work in the world, and maybe even make improvements The only question is whether we will embrace the opportunity.

[TooLiveBrew]

Sure Braun can't 100% prove that it altered his test but at the very least inquiring minds would like to know how it is possible that the 44 hour window changed the outcome of the test. To this point only Will Carrol has attempted to go down that road and I don't buy that other media organizations aren't pursuing that angle purely for sketchy reasons.

So you believe the yellow journalism approach in this case seems more credible than someone providing very specific details about the case, and who hasn't been clamoring for months & weeks about Braun's 'obvious' guilt? Not to mention that this specific "someone" is a guy who's done a lot of reporting on the medical side of things in MLB.

 

I find it really hard to believe Shayman Das (SP?) would rule in his Braun's favor just on the "technicality" of delayed shipment. There has to be much more to this than just that. Das ruled against players in the other 12 appeals he presided over, so it seems there had to be something really convincing to cause him to go against what he's ruled in the past and overturn Braun's test.

This "something really convincing" was reported by Carroll -- it was Braun's legal team being able to replicate the extreme results through improper care of a test sample. That was what Carroll (in a radio interview w/WEEI Boston) specifically cited as being a/the main influencing factor in this decision.

[thebruce44]

It may mean nothing, but a columnist from AZ has published these comments:

 

I followed him (Braun) out of the room. I heard him mutter to friends about having to take a drug test in the playoffs.

 

He seemed agitated, almost offended. I scribbled the scene in my notebook, where it held no context and remained dormant for months.

 

Digging up his earlier comments on this scene, they sound like perhaps Braun could have just been annoyed at having to pee in cup (certainly understandable).

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/150636

 

We heard earlier that he said something jokingly like this is what happens when you go 3-5 or whatever he did. It sounded like he was in a good mood after the game, but was a little annoyed at having to go take the test. I didn't read too much into it.

[Madtown343]

I'm clean and have no interest in peeing in a cup right now...

[jjfanec]

It may mean nothing, but a columnist from AZ has published these comments:

 

I followed him (Braun) out of the room. I heard him mutter to friends about having to take a drug test in the playoffs.

 

He seemed agitated, almost offended. I scribbled the scene in my notebook, where it held no context and remained dormant for months.

 

Digging up his earlier comments on this scene, they sound like perhaps Braun could have just been annoyed at having to pee in cup (certainly understandable).

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/150636

 

We heard earlier that he said something jokingly like this is what happens when you go 3-5 or whatever he did. It sounded like he was in a good mood after the game, but was a little annoyed at having to go take the test. I didn't read too much into it.

 

Yeah a guy not loving the fact that he has to take a drug test after right after winning a playoff game means absolutely nothing. He probably wanted to go celebrate. People on both sides are really stretching for stuff right now

[Fear The Chorizo]

Braun's failed test leak occurred almost 3 full months ago - with the amount of interest around this story, if people even had sketchy knowledge or evidence that Braun was taking something he shouldn't there would have been more than STD or medical condition rumors floating around. Networks were running with blind speculation and I still don't recall a story that cited any kind of source saying they knew Braun was cheating.

[bylo tesi me]

This "something really convincing" was reported by Carroll -- it was Braun's legal team being able to replicate the extreme results through improper care of a test sample. That was what Carroll (in a radio interview w/WEEI Boston) specifically cited as being a/the main influencing factor in this decision.

That would make so much more sense to me. Demonstrating how the handling of the sample could cause a false test would give me reason to give Braun the benefit of the doubt. I would guess they had to test part of the sample immediately to show it was clean first, then test the rest of the sample after replicating the conditions it sat in between the time Braun submitted it to the time it was tested in Montreal.

 

Also if that is in fact the case, I could understand why MLB would want to repress that information from ever getting out.