Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 2)

[dhoffman19]

One thing that bothers me is that it's pretty well-established by multiple sources who used to work at ESPN that that network has a policy of not running stuff unless they have two, independant sources for a story. Did ESPN just simply disregard that principle for this case? Or were there two leaks? Given the journalistic mess that ESPN has become, I'm guessing they just went with the story based on the source and F-W's reputation (ESPN spent a lot of money to hire him on exactly to break stories like this). The other possibility is that there wasn't another leak per se, but that they somehow maneuvered somebody into unwittingly providing enough corroboration of the initial leak to provide them with justification for running with the story.

 

That's a very good point. I doubt (or at least hope) that ESPN would not have run the story based on one phone call. I suppose another possibility is that the leaker provided them a memo, fax, or email that had enough info to corroborate the story.

[RockCoCougars]

Maybe this was covered earlier in the thread and I just don't remember, but the big thing that is still confusing to me is how the second test came back positive for synthetic testosterone if Braun was, in fact, totally clean.]

 

No, you can't spontaneously sprout synthetic T in urine sample, but the test that "determines" that synthetic T is present does not actually find synthetic T in urine. What it does is identify the metabolites produced when T is used up by your body processes. It identifies them only by very precisely detemining when the remnants of those metabolites pass in front of a sensor after the urine sample has been literally turned into a gas. The gas rises up a tube and the different remnant rise at microscopically different rates. A sensor records data about these remnants as they pass by. This data is turned into a printout (though it can also be evaluated just as numbers). Then you look on your printout for a peak at a given "time" on the graph, you measure that peak and make a determination as to what that means.

 

Here's the catch. What if two different things are passing by the sensor at a give time? If you are predisposed to think that everything passing by that sensor at that specific time is indicative of synthetic T, you're going to get a big peak that looks like a lot of synthetic T that is actually only a mcuh smaller amounts of two different things. (And that small amount, for reasons alluded to in posts long ago, would not mean that there was a small amount of synthetic T, either. A determination of synthetic T being present can only be made by comparing ratios of different carbon ions, both of which are present in nature, and then making a statistical hypothesis that a certain ratio is "out of whack" with what would normally be expected in a given sample. It's diagnostic art and statistics as much as anything.

 

This is a vast oversimplification, but the point is that you don't "find' synthetic T waving back at you from under a microscope. These tests are extraordinarily complex in nature. Just reading this simplified version should provide further insight into why I say it's virtually impossible for the athlete to challenge the conclusion of the testers when they say they're right.

 

Did some more reading. Thank you.

[Nottso]

I'm glad pebadger is on our side.

[jjfanec]

Charles Pierce at Grantland has a Braun article this morning. Not much new it in all though he did call out MLB and baseball writers. He has to be one of the few sport writers defending Braun http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7620049/in-defense-ryan-braun

 

"The extremely experienced collector acted in a professional and appropriate manner," Manfred said in a statement. "He handled Mr. Braun's sample consistent with instructions issued by our jointly retained collection agency. The arbitrator found that those instructions were not consistent with certain language in our program, even though the instructions were identical to those used by many other drug programs."

 

Translated from the original Bureaucrat, this reads, "The guy who hung on to Ryan Braun's urine for 44 hours did nothing wrong because our instructions were written by half-bright marmosets. We are now on a nationwide search to find smarter marmosets."

 

The professional thumb-suckers in my business spent the weekend talking about "technicalities" and being offended by the fact that Ryan Braun held a press conference in which he excoriated MLB for the clownish way its "system" had hung him out to dry. People who denounce him for engaging in "victimology" overlook the fact that he really was a victim. Where does he go to get his name back? Why did we know about him at all while his case was still under appeal? Why, indeed, was any action taken at all while his case was still under appeal?

[trwi7]

Seth Everett on his radio show yesterday came to the defense of Braun. This is important because Everett used to work in MLB with Selig.

[DannoMac21]

Was listening to 1250 (unfortunately) on my way to work this morning.

 

They said that the arbitrator is supposed to be releasing all of the court documents today. That'll provide the step-by-step process in how every process was taken.

 

Pretty much Milwaukee's version of the Mitchell Report. Anyone have any more info on this?

[trwi7]

I thought it had to be released no more than 30 days after the decision and it wouldn't be made public. Of course that won't stop a reporter from talking to someone who has seen it and therefore making it public but I doubt if the report is being released today that it's made public today.

[Baldkin]

After watching Homer try to interact on Twitter with Will Carroll I've given up on it.

 

https://twitter.com/#!/espnhomer/status/174000901760094209

 

@injuryexpert that's the point-shouldn't have been thrown out if pee produced synthetic testosterone? time delay screw up can produce that.

 

@espnhomer @injuryexpert sorry, time delay screw up can't produce that. thanks for your time.

 

If the local guys won't take the time to read the facts of the case and just jump to conclusions and don't try to educate themselves (or the public), why should any of the national slobs?

[pebadger]

We live in an age of unprecedented access to just about any kind of information that you'd want to find about just about any subject you want to learn something about.

 

We also live in an age where people who choose not to do that have unprecedented access to the means of broadcasting their opinions to audiences of immense size.

 

We'd rather pay people to do the second than do both.

[trwi7]

I'm done with the Big Show. Josh and Gary sound like complete idiots.

 

"With the information we have now, I still think guilty."

[Patrick425]

According to WTMJ, reports are that the "handler" (Dino Laurenzi) is going to release a statement today.

[dlk9s]

I'm sure it will be a very informative statement.

[Nottso]

We live in an age of unprecedented access to just about any kind of information that you'd want to find about just about any subject you want to learn something about.

 

We also live in an age where people who choose not to do that have unprecedented access to the means of broadcasting their opinions to audiences of immense size.

 

We'd rather pay people to do the second than do both.

 

The Internet is the greatest source of information mankind has yet to see. It's also the greatest source of misinformation mankind has yet to see.

 

I tell people constantly "just because you read something 3 times on the Internet, that doesn't make it the truth."

[fondybrewfan]

Passan really ripped into Braun again with his most recent column. However the more and more I think about the situation the easier it is for me to at least understand where these guys are coming from. I have me reasons for believing Braun is innocent but it would be extremely easy to be on the other side. There aren't a whole lot of facts in Braun's favor other than actually having the suspension overturned.

 

There is no way the collector is going to say anything of significance or anything that he already didn't tell the arby panel. It will be pointless

[markedman5]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Av4FOnvS.9bIgWO9H3g5LXk5nYcB?slug=jp-passan_ryan_braun_drug_test_appeal_testosterone_022712

[Schlitz001]

There is no way the collector is going to say anything of significance or anything that he already didn't tell the arby panel. It will be pointless

I'm guessing he is going to apologize for not the delivering the samples in a timely fashion. He might suggest that he didn't know that the FedEx locations were open and that he has no good excuse for not knowing this. He will also probably say that he in no way tampered with the sample and stored them using a method in compliance with WADA guidelines.

[jjfanec]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Av4FOnvS.9bIgWO9H3g5LXk5nYcB?slug=jp-passan_ryan_braun_drug_test_appeal_testosterone_022712

 

That article is horrible. His response to quotes from Romero and Morse at the end are complete conjecture. The part about why Braun shouldnt pursue legal action - because he would be forced to tell his side to a court and since he is lying he would be guilty of perjury is not journalism but bias thoughts and feelings.

 

I can understand people not being convinced Braun is innocent but when people are positive he is a cheater that frustrates me

[ttsather]

I'm guessing he is going to apologize for not the delivering the samples in a timely fashion. He might suggest that he didn't know that the FedEx locations were open and that he has no good excuse for not knowing this. He will also probably say that he in no way tampered with the sample and stored them using a method in compliance with WADA guidelines.

 

I think that's a fair prediction. In fact, I'm really surprised to hear that he's making a statement at all. I see no benefit to this guy trying to go to the media to "clear his name" or something. Better to draw as little attention to yourself as possible and just talk about it in court if necessary. Pure speculation, but I wonder if it's really WADA/USADA using him as a mouthpiece and pushing him out into the open a bit more.

[dhoffman19]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Av4FOnvS.9bIgWO9H3g5LXk5nYcB?slug=jp-passan_ryan_braun_drug_test_appeal_testosterone_022712

 

That article is horrible. His response to quotes from Romero and Morse at the end are complete conjecture. The part about why Braun shouldnt pursue legal action - because he would be forced to tell his side to a court and since he is lying he would be guilty of perjury is not journalism but bias thoughts and feelings.

 

I can understand people not being convinced Braun is innocent but when people are positive he is a cheater that frustrates me

 

It's also funny that Passan jumps all over Braun for impugning the collector's character when Passan is the guy who decided to publish the collector's name and make him public enemy #1 to Brewer fans.

[jeffy]

If you are going to criticize Passan, how about the fact that Braun is doing to the collector, who unlike Braun is not a public figure (or was not), just what he claims was done to him?

 

I don't really care if Braun violated MLB drug rules, but if the collector did nothing that had any impact on the test results, then I am not at all impressed by him disingenuously saying he did not want to wrongly accuse anyone else, after having said "There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector...that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened" and "There were a lot of things that we heard about...the collector and some other people involved in the process that have certainly been concerning to us". He also had basically said that it is important to get the sample out of the hands of the collector because it would be "extremely easy" for him to tamper with it.

[fondybrewfan]

IMO it is becoming increasinly unrealistic to suggest that anyone knowingly tampered with the samples. With no new information coming out recently in support of Braun it is becoming increasinly hard to believe that he didn't get off on a techniciality. I still hope there is some missing info here; and if there is I don't know why Braun hasn't addressed it yet.

[dhoffman19]

If you are going to criticize Passan, how about the fact that Braun is doing to the collector, who unlike Braun is not a public figure (or was not), just what he claims was done to him?

 

I don't really care if Braun violated MLB drug rules, but if the collector did nothing that had any impact on the test results, then I am not at all impressed by him disingenuously saying he did not want to wrongly accuse anyone else, after having said "There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector...that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened" and "There were a lot of things that we heard about...the collector and some other people involved in the process that have certainly been concerning to us". He also had basically said that it is important to get the sample out of the hands of the collector because it would be "extremely easy" for him to tamper with it.

 

Fair enough, and the more I think about it the less happy I am with Braun for going down that road if he's not going to back it up with something more concrete. Also, if Will Carroll's report is true that Braun and his team were able to replicate the positive test by letting a specimen sit around for a while, it seems odd that Braun would have so strongly hinted at tampering. Anyway, my point was that it's laughable for Passan to claim the moral high ground and come down so hard on Braun for making this guy a target, when Passan himself was the first one to publish his name and ensure the guy and his family get harrassed.

[gregmag]

If you are going to criticize Passan, how about the fact that Braun is doing to the collector, who unlike Braun is not a public figure (or was not), just what he claims was done to him?

 

I don't really care if Braun violated MLB drug rules, but if the collector did nothing that had any impact on the test results, then I am not at all impressed by him disingenuously saying he did not want to wrongly accuse anyone else, after having said "There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector...that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened" and "There were a lot of things that we heard about...the collector and some other people involved in the process that have certainly been concerning to us". He also had basically said that it is important to get the sample out of the hands of the collector because it would be "extremely easy" for him to tamper with it.

 

You're going far out of your way to view Braun's statements at the press conference in the most sinister possible light. Braun raised questions about the process, for good reasons. He was vague about what he was "concerned and suspicious" about. In context, he very easily could have been talking about the basic circumstances -- the way the sample may have been stored, the possibility that others could have had access to it, etc. -- and how the collector handled them. Reread the quotations you cite: Braun said nothing about the collector's character or integrity. Braun made a point of stating that he wasn't lodging an accusation, and he didn't lodge an accusation. I wish he had been more precise about the nature of his concerns, but his statements don't support your accusation of hypocrisy.

[jeffy]

It may mean nothing, but a columnist from AZ has published these comments:

 

I followed him (Braun) out of the room. I heard him mutter to friends about having to take a drug test in the playoffs.

 

He seemed agitated, almost offended. I scribbled the scene in my notebook, where it held no context and remained dormant for months.

 

Digging up his earlier comments on this scene, they sound like perhaps Braun could have just been annoyed at having to pee in cup (certainly understandable).

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/150636

[Fear The Chorizo]

It may not be so much that Braun's questioning whether the collector tampered with his sample by breaking seals - he could be questioning whether the sample was actually stored in a refrigerated environment while it was at his house for 2 days. It's been a few days since any new information has come out, but I find a few things interesting...

 

1 - There was some talk earlier about how out of the loop Fielder seemed when asked about Braun's exoneration - what if he was one of the other 2 Brewers tested? I think the collector had three samples in his possession that day. If there were issues with the other 2 samples to the point of them being tossed out (according to the Dan Patrick show source), I wouldn't want to be saying much publicly right now, either if my sample was one of them.

 

2 - Interesting that everyone who knows the collector seems to be coming out in his defense talking about how great a guy he is, but we haven't heard anything publicly from the collector himself. I'm sure he doesn't want the attention but at this point it's unavoidable. If he does make a statement publicly at some point and doesn't flat out deny tampering or not properly storing the samples, there's smoke to Braun's accusations. If he doesn't make or release a statement publicly at all, there's fire. I also wish Braun had bit his tongue a bit more during his presser regarding the sample collector, but I also think with as much information that he gave up to that point of his statement, there is something to what he insinuated. Braun's camp had a long time to prepare his statement and it was obvious that he chose his words carefully.

 

3 - We're not going to get all the information on this until Das' decision is leaked, or until someone between Braun's camp and MLB exposes the original leak. Either way, more information is coming.