Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 2)

[RockCoCougars]

Right now Braun is probably not going to be an All-Star. If at the end of his career he has Hall of Fame numbers, he's probably not going to be elected to the Hall of Fame because of this. Almost everyone outside of Milwaukee, including the media thinks that he is a steroid user. He has gotten booed loudly on the road so far. He has probably lost endorsements because of this incident.

 

Braun has lost A LOT already because of this terrible situation. We are not talking about strippers here. If Braun had something new to clear his name, he would present it to the world and clear his tarnished name. Tell me; what's the worst that could happen if Braun tells us his side of the story? Now what's the best that could happen?

 

Exactly. The less that I hear from Braun (which has basically been nothing since the presser), the more dubious things look. Like you, I see no reason for him to selflessly remain silent to protect an unknown entity- especially since there is no gag order. Even with my Brewer blinders on, this seems pretty far fetched. I don't believe for a minute that Braun would sit on a slam dunk exonerating him with the public....even if meant leaving MLB, teammates or anyone else out to dry.

[pebadger]

Braun is specifically not allowed to make a direct statement about this stuff. The statement he did make was authorized as a compromise measure given the circumstances generated as a result of the original leak. He faces liability for violating the agreement.

 

So, with a direct statement out of the question, he would have to communicate via leaks. Leaving aside the fact that if you do leak you are no longer in control of the statement, this agreement by MLB and MLBPA cements the fact that any leak is going to be coming from Braun. Any leak would be a violation of the confidentiality agreement just as much as a prepared public statement. Braun simply is not at liberty to talk about any of this without opening up the possibility that he will be subject to some sort of liability.

 

As I've stated a million times, there is no way that Braun proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he didn't cheat because it is almost literally impossible for him to have done so. If that were at all possible, the case never would have been brought by MLB. That doesn't mean that MLB's case was a good case by any means; it just means that it wasn't an impossibly horrible one. When looked at from that perspective the question isn't "what does he have to lose" but rather "what does he have to gain" from unquestionably violating the JDA by talking?

 

I'd love to know more. We all would. But we're never going to have all the answers. For my part I don't think Braun "cheated" in teh way most people define that term. I think it's possible that somehow he ingested something that tripped the test. I also think it's possible that there was a problem with the test that caused it to go positive. Unless Braun admits to cheating, or admits to having inadvertently taking something (which he may not even have realized until well after the fact) or we get an admission that there is a problem with the test (which may be the case even if nobody knows exactly whether there is a problem or what it might be), we'll never know what happened. People expecting Braun to be the one man, out of all the dozens of people directly involved in the case, to be the only one who has the answers or to be the only one who must explain something publicly, simply don't get it. Frankly, I don't know if they ever will.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If Das' written decision would have only used the "technicality" of a chain of custody issue exonerating Braun, I don't think MLB or the players' union would have any problems with letting letting Das complete and submit the decision as he normally has in the past. There's most likely more information that isn't known publicly that would have been in the decision, and both MLB/the Players Union doesn't want it written - confidential or not. If it's a written record it would get out in the public.

 

Whatever those details are, they have to be embarrasing to both the league and the players union - in my mind one possibility would be scientific evidence of being able to replicate a positive test result using handling procedures that were commonplace for weekend collection processes. If the drug testing policy was made to look horrible by Braun's appeal, MLB and the Players' Union lose all the credibility they developed with the public since the steroid era. Since WADA helped MLB put together their testing policy, they look bad, too.

 

This is all assuming that there truly is more to the story than what's publicly known...if that's the case it's really unfortunate, because while the issue will go away for MLB and the Players' Union, Braun's tied to it for the rest of his life - regardless of how much or little is actually known publicly.

[RockCoCougars]

Braun is specifically not allowed to make a direct statement about this stuff. The statement he did make was authorized as a compromise measure given the circumstances generated as a result of the original leak. He faces liability for violating the agreement.

 

I was not aware of this. Is there a link somewhere above this in the thread? I'm sure that I've missed a few pages here and there on this monster.

[Ennder]

I think people are overstating things a bit based on what was really one away series where he got booed so heavily. People tend to forget or at least stop caring about most of this stuff and while he might not make the all star game this year because of it by next year he'll still be an all star. As more of the older guys fall out of the HOF voting the questionable steroid guys will get more and more votes as will the guys the sabermetrics like. I wouldn't judge these things based on what we've seen so far because 20 years from now it will be a completely different environment.

[Schlitz001]

People expecting Braun to be the one man, out of all the dozens of people directly involved in the case, to be the only one who has the answers or to be the only one who must explain something publicly, simply don't get it. Frankly, I don't know if they ever will.

 

This entire case is about Ryan Braun. If anyone should be the one man to publicly clear up what truly happened, it should be Ryan Braun. This is his reputation on the line. He is the one with the positive test. No one cares about Ryan Braun, like Ryan Braun. I guess I simply don't get it. If not Ryan Braun, who should be the one to come forward?

 

Braun simply is not at liberty to talk about any of this without opening up the possibility that he will be subject to some sort of liability.

 

You have a good handle on this stuff pebadger. Please give me an idea of how Braun would be liable. If he came out and said that he took a substance without knowing it, what sort of penalty would he be looking at and who would enforce it? Would he be suspended from baseball for life? Would he face a large monetary fine, like $200,000? I honestly don't know and would like to get an idea of what is keeping Ryan Braun from telling the truth.

[pebadger]

For those who think there isn't anything more to the story, what do you make of Will Carroll's assertions about replication of results and other nuts-and-bolts stuff that isn't being widely reported? Carroll must be confident enough in his source to have printed what he did.

 

I know enough to know that that is a lot we don't know. Probably nothing earth-shatteringly conclusive in either direction, but this isn't a Perry Mason episode and this thing isn't going to wrap up nicely with a bow. All I know is that MLB had an extraordianrily low bar to hurdle to win the case and they couldn't do it.

[Ennder]

If Braun isn't supposed to publicly say something, leaking something wouldn't help him. It would just get people talking about it all again and it wouldn't be likely to change the minds of anyone who had already made it up. He is probably best off just letting blow over.

[Fear The Chorizo]

"It's obviously disappointing because people deserve to know what the basis for the case being overturned is, and frankly the athlete should have that right as well," Travis Tygart, chief executive officer of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, said Monday. "Certainly an innocent athlete would want that opportunity."

 

I 100% agree with the above quote - 1st time I've agreed with something Tygart said during this whole process.

[pebadger]

The liability question is a good one. I noted a long time ago (in the first thread) when I read the JDA that the confidentiality provision conspicuously lacked a clause in which it enumerated how a violation of the provision would be enforced (except for the ridiculously one-sided allowance for MLB alone to no longer be subject to the provision if confidentiality were breached).

 

I know this: Braun is subject to the confidentiality provision. He would be in violation of the agreement by going public. The fact that penalties are not specifically laid out does not mean that he wouldn't still be liable for a breach of the agreement. In a way, the unknown works against him here. In the absence of a prescribed penalty, MLB could try to do whatever it thought it could get away with in terms of discipline (and then there would be a big to-do and potential litigation about how that all works within the framework of the JDA and broader labor law principles). And that's leaving aside all the informal things that just might happen to work against him if he rocks the boat too much.

 

MLB and MLBPA put together a very poorly constructed JDA. That's the dirty secret that this whole unfortunate Braun saga brought to light. After I read it, my conclusion that a lot of it was just boilerplate stuff that was not particularly well vetted by the parties. I think some of that was completely intentional. They adopted something to get Congress off their backs and they let it ride. The second either party started fighting about anything in the JDA, they threatened to derail the bigger overall concern which was a new collective bargaining agreement and keeping the money flowing. That sloppiness caught up to all involved here, but Ryan Braun is the one human being who is paying the biggest price as a result. Whether or not that's fair or unfair is for others to decide.

[Schlitz001]

If Braun isn't supposed to publicly say something, leaking something wouldn't help him. It would just get people talking about it all again and it wouldn't be likely to change the minds of anyone who had already made it up. He is probably best off just letting blow over.

 

If Braun had something to say that would help prove his innocence, he would say it. I believe that most people in America want to believe Braun, but it's hard to do with the details that Braun gave us at his press conference. I'm ready to change my mind. Tell me that it has to do with more than just chain of custody Braun. Please.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

I think it's a bit overboard to say that he'd be blacklisted from the HOF. He's got time on his side. The longer he keeps putting up numbers and passing tests, the more distant that positive becomes.

[splitterpfj]

I agree with Newfield on this one...we're fifteen years from ballot eligibility, if Braun has the numbers. There's a ton of time for Braun to repair his image - and people do tend to move on.

 

Braves fans were done with Chipper Jones when he cheated on his wife...how did that turn out?

 

Braun WAS NOT suspended, "I think so" would be a horrible reason not to vote for a deserving Hall of Famer.

 

You watch, some of these guys from the last 15 years will wind up being voted in. Does it seem ridiculous to anyone else that Giants fans were taunting Ryan Braun during spring training, after wildly applauding Barry Bonds? Is it not ridiculous for Cardinals fans to have a negative opinion of Braun, after having cheered Mark McGwire, who is still employed by the team?

 

This will find its place, sooner or later. The only way you're an automatic out for the HOF is to be banned from the game...Braun didn't even miss a weekend. My guess is, assuming Braun remains the Braun people liked so much before this stupid thing, if he retires with HOF stats, he'll be snubbed on the first ballot the way Robby Alomar was, and then he'll get in. The NFL suspended Paul Hornung for an entire season for gambling...he's in the Hall of Fame.

[endaround]

 

Braun WAS NOT suspended, "I think so" would be a horrible reason not to vote for a deserving Hall of Famer.

 

 

And yet Bagwell didn't get voted in with only the vaguest of rumors out there.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I thought of Bagwell too, the one difference being that Bagwell's numbers came almost entirely during the steroid era - prior to MLB having any sort of testing program that had teeth. Fair or not, Bagwell is guilty by association. It's true that there were only vague rumors, but it's also true that there's nothing saying that he was clean. I can see him being among the first players from that era getting into the HOF, but it's going to take awhile.

 

Even though Braun failed a test and had to go through this publicly with alot of attention, his career will be played entirely during the era of MLB having a testing program in place. If he never fails another test and puts up HOF-caliber numbers, he'll be a hall of famer. The further this gets in the rearview mirror of current events, the more Braun's going to get the benefit of the doubt if he continues to pass tests and his #'s don't dip - it's fishy that MLB and the union doesn't want Das' decision on paper.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I thought of Bagwell too, the one difference being that Bagwell's numbers came almost entirely during the steroid era - prior to MLB having any sort of testing program that had teeth. Fair or not, Bagwell is guilty by association. It's true that there were only vague rumors, but it's also true that there's nothing saying that he was clean. I can see him being among the first players from that era getting into the HOF, but it's going to take awhile.

 

Even though Braun failed a test and had to go through this publicly with alot of attention, his career will be played entirely during the era of MLB having a testing program in place. If he never fails another test and puts up HOF-caliber numbers, he'll be a hall of famer. The further this gets in the rearview mirror of current events, the more Braun's going to get the benefit of the doubt if he continues to pass tests and his #'s don't dip - it's fishy that MLB and the union doesn't want Das' decision on paper.

[brettac1]

Judging from his jump in votes this season, Bagwell should go in next year.

[Patrick425]

"It's obviously disappointing because people deserve to know what the basis for the case being overturned is, and frankly the athlete should have that right as well," Travis Tygart, chief executive officer of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, said Monday. "Certainly an innocent athlete would want that opportunity."

 

I 100% agree with the above quote - 1st time I've agreed with something Tygart said during this whole process.

 

I actually read that last part, "Certainly an innocent athelte would want that opportunity", as a dig at Braun. As in, ok MLB is asking Das to hold off the report, but why is the players union? If Braun is innocent shouldn't they be fighting to get the details of that report released (even though it's not a report that would be made public...although I have a feeling somehow it would be).

[pebadger]

Here's the thing: Braun isn't technically a "party" to the JDA. He's clearly affected by the JDA and he has obligations that arise under the JDA, but he's not a party to the agreement. Without getting into a law school-type discussion/debate on both privity of contract and principles of labor law, it's not clear that Braun has any right/standing to demand that an opinion be issued/released.

 

From the JDA:

 

Major League Baseball’s Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program (the “Program”) is established by agreement of the Office of the Commissioner and the Major League Baseball Players Association (the “Commissioner’s Office,” the “Association” and, jointly, the “Parties”)

 

THat's why I said earlier that this stinks to high heaven. MLB and MLPBA are moving to cover themselves and the only one who really bears any of the PR burden for that among the general population that don't understand the intricacies is Ryan Braun. I think Braun could probably take some action to try to force a written decision, but he'd be in the position of having to fight his own union to do it and he'd be in the position of having to make this thing a bigger deal than it already is. But then you'd have to ask "why is he forcing a decision"? He's already won. Why does he need a written decision, especially if, by terms of the agreement, nobody outside of MLB, MLBPA and the player is supposed to see it anyway? The only reason for the player to demand it at this point is in hopes that it will be leaked. It sort of goes to demonstrate another facet of the slantedness of the system. The only real reason for having a written decision in the first place is to explain to the player why he's being suspended. It's not a document that he would ever use publicly in any case, with the very minor exception that it might hold some use if a player were ever to attempt the very improbable manuever of obtaining relief from the arbitration decision in a court of law. If confidentiality holds throughout the process, the player is never going to want the award document public as it would only serve as a foundation for suspicion even under the best of circumstances. No player is ever going to make a big public spectacle of saying "Hey I tested positive for PEDS, but it's alright now!".

 

Ryan is simply one small cog in the machine on this one and he's going to have to just take what comes here. He won and I think he's happy with that. He has no real incentive to get in the way of MLB and MLBPA when they are trying to hide their own mistakes. He can't "prove" his innocence in a way that is going to change the minds of those that have already convicted him despite the decision of the panel. With MLB and MLBPA closing this down and essentially destroying all the evidence of what happened, I think the message is pretty clear to anyone who is paying attention that those two parties don't want anyone digging around anymore and that they never want the story to come out. By extension, they are also sending a pretty clear message to Braun to keep his mouth shut. He's done that anyway, but this action is emphasizing the fact.

 

So, I'll say it again in closing. MLB and MLBPA (which has its own agenda apart from defending Braun) are burying their mistakes. Braun has no incentive (and several disincentives) to get in their way was they go about this task. By doing this they are ensuring that nobody ever gets the whole truth. That's a pretty frightening proposition, given that the drug testing regime was set up at least partially with a nod to the grand principle of letting sunlight disinfect the game.

[JohnBriggs12]

pedbager nailed it. The union has basically abandoned Braun in this case. His interests and the union's interests are at odds. It's as simple as that.

[adambr2]

"It's obviously disappointing because people deserve to know what the basis for the case being overturned is, and frankly the athlete should have that right as well," Travis Tygart, chief executive officer of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, said Monday. "Certainly an innocent athlete would want that opportunity."

 

I 100% agree with the above quote - 1st time I've agreed with something Tygart said during this whole process.

 

I actually read that last part, "Certainly an innocent athelte would want that opportunity", as a dig at Braun. As in, ok MLB is asking Das to hold off the report, but why is the players union? If Braun is innocent shouldn't they be fighting to get the details of that report released (even though it's not a report that would be made public...although I have a feeling somehow it would be).

 

I don't agree with the quote at all. Why do people "deserve to know what the basis for the case being overturned is" on a process that was supposed to be 100% confidential? We aren't even supposed to know that there was anything to overturn. So I think people are saying, "people deserve to know", when what they really mean is, "people want to know".

[Fear The Chorizo]

I understand that this process was supposed to be entirely confidential - but it obviously wasn't. The reason I agree with Tygart's comment is that since Braun's case was leaked and the public was aware of things they shouldn't have been, I think the written decision exonerating Braun should be disclosed.

 

If the decision was based solely on sample handling procedures and has nothing else of substance in it, Braun still looks bad and it reinforces public perception - something that MLB and the players' union are apparently ok with. If the decision discloses additional information that supports Braun's claim that there's much more to the story, MLB and the Union's testing policy gets an even bigger black eye - something they're obviously not willing to receive.

 

I agree that if this process remained confidential throughout, Tygart stating that 'people have the right to know' is wrong - that's not how this process is supposed to work. Regardless of where the leak originated that led to all the public scrutiny, at this stage I think disclosure of the decision that led to Braun's exoneration should be made. After all, if this process was supposed to remain confidential, there isn't the public statement of Braun winning his appeal and Braun getting the opportunity to hold that press conference. The written decision likely wouldn't tell the 'whole story' either - what it would do is indicate the exact grounds and supporting information for Braun winning his appeal.

[pebadger]

The written decision likely wouldn't tell the 'whole story' either - what it would do is indicate the exact grounds and supporting information for Braun winning his appeal.

 

You're correct, FTC. But it would provide a starting place for people who want to do more digging and ask more questions, and it appears to me that that is exactly the kind of thing MLB and the union are looking to foreclose. We can only speculate as to why that might be the case. The bottom line is that this whole thing blew up over confidentiality and now, in the aftermath, that same confidentiality provision is being used as both a weapon and a shield. Who is being cynical? Who is being self-serving? Who is being principled? Does it matter, when, in the end, MLB and MLBPA are just being practical and nobody is in a position to really to demand anything or force them to do anything other than what they want to do? It's like a Game of Thrones storyline, minus the sex and violence.

[sdcheezhd]

I think from Braun's point of view, he won, MLB is not appealing the decision (at least in a fair way; they were certainly willing to squawk extralegally about how unhappy they were), they admit they have to change how they are doing things, and they don't want the decision public. That's about as good as it can be for Braun, especially since there is no reason other than one admittedly flawed test to think he ever juiced. He can either leave it the way it is or help feed another cycle of news stories where there's no upside unless MLB admits they were wrong and apologizes, which will never happen.

 

And sure the opposing fans will boo. My sense listening to the broadcasts was it got louder as the game wore on and the fans got drunker. After the first visits it will die down a lot. If he has a good year this year it will be over.

[BrewCrewForever]

I think from Braun's point of view, he won, MLB is not appealing the decision (at least in a fair way; they were certainly willing to squawk extralegally about how unhappy they were), they admit they have to change how they are doing things, and they don't want the decision public. That's about as good as it can be for Braun, especially since there is no reason other than one admittedly flawed test to think he ever juiced. He can either leave it the way it is or help feed another cycle of news stories where there's no upside unless MLB admits they were wrong and apologizes, which will never happen.

 

And sure the opposing fans will boo. My sense listening to the broadcasts was it got louder as the game wore on and the fans got drunker. After the first visits it will die down a lot. If he has a good year this year it will be over.

 

Fantastic post. Great points, pretty much how I feel as well. Best thing for Braun is to try and let this thing die. It never will completely, but best to just move past it and move on for Ryan and all involved. As long as he continues to put up number as he has his first 5 years and keeps passing tests as he had forever, all will be good.