Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 2)

[bylo tesi me]

I still believe Braun has an agreement with MLB and the players union not to release details of his case. I keep thinking back to his press conference where he said he couldn't go into all the details of his case, and that he would put the best interests of Baseball ahead of his own best interests. He acknowledged it wouldn't be easy.

 

This is just my opinion, but I think the union and MLB are actively covering up what happened in Braun's case, more than likely because both sides want to protect the testing system.

No way an intelligent man such as Das exonerated Braun simply because some guy didn't deliver his sample in a timely manner. There has to be so much more.

[homer]

Now that the dust is settling, I just think Occam's Razor takes over - he probably took something and got off on a technicality. I don't want to believe that and I'm glad he's not suspended but this seems to make the most sense. All the other stuff just seems like we're trying our best to make facts fit the version of the story we want to be true. Square peg, round hole and what not.

[dlk9s]

If there really is more to the story and Braun is truly innocent, he's a bigger man than I would be in keeping his mouth shut about all the details. There's no way in hell that I would let MLB ruin my reputation, quite possibly for the rest of my life, just because it might be in the "best interests" of baseball. No way.

[bylo tesi me]

Now that the dust is settling, I just think Occam's Razor takes over - he probably took something and got off on a technicality. I don't want to believe that and I'm glad he's not suspended but this seems to make the most sense. All the other stuff just seems like we're trying our best to make facts fit the version of the story we want to be true. Square peg, round hole and what not.

 

 

 

I agree with this. Not trying to make facts fit any version. I just think the Technicality is alot more than just the collector waited 2 days to ship sample. Shyman Das never ruled in a players favor before (at least that we're aware of), so I find it hard to believe he would just based on that. Braun more than likely did take something he shouldn't have, as I also find it difficult to believe MLB is "out to get" Braun. MLB clearly believes he's guilty of something, but it's also clear MLB failed to prove their case.

[fondybrewfan]

It sounds like he has told other players the "real story". Sooner or later one of them is going to say something and that will eventually force Braun to say something

[Fear The Chorizo]

More information will come out over time, either good or bad for Braun's reputation. Today's society relies so much on getting all the information ASAP - this case wasn't intended to be like that but the leak changed things. There's $ signs for whoever publicizes the whole scoop, too many people know the actual details for this not to be made public eventually.

 

If Braun truly is innocent, he's going to get sick of dealing with the prolonged stigma of being a cheater who found a loophole to luckily get away with it. I don't care what sort of arrangement he would have with MLB, at some point you have to look out for your own best interests if there's more information available to sway public opinion.

 

If the leak did come from someone Braun's team was consulting (as all signs currently point), then Braun or MLB would be foolish to leak additional information at this time if they were considering legal action. Presenting Das' decision themselves would be doing the same thing that they would be going after the initial leak for doing.

 

My guess is Braun's team is currently weighing the option of either going after the leak in court while witholding the information that led to his exoneration or forgetting about legal benefits maintaining confidentiality and just air out all the information from the decision and who the original leak was publicly.

[gregmag]

Now that the dust is settling, I just think Occam's Razor takes over - he probably took something and got off on a technicality. I don't want to believe that and I'm glad he's not suspended but this seems to make the most sense. All the other stuff just seems like we're trying our best to make facts fit the version of the story we want to be true. Square peg, round hole and what not.

 

 

 

I agree with this. Not trying to make facts fit any version. I just think the Technicality is alot more than just the collector waited 2 days to ship sample. Shyman Das never ruled in a players favor before (at least that we're aware of), so I find it hard to believe he would just based on that. Braun more than likely did take something he shouldn't have, as I also find it difficult to believe MLB is "out to get" Braun. MLB clearly believes he's guilty of something, but it's also clear MLB failed to prove their case.

 

I have to say, you're entitled to your opinions, but I think this is pretty condescending. I'm a fairly smart, rational person, and I have a very different view of the likeliest underlying facts. I'm not going to insult your thought process that has led to your view; I wish you wouldn't insult mine.

[bylo tesi me]

Now that the dust is settling, I just think Occam's Razor takes over - he probably took something and got off on a technicality. I don't want to believe that and I'm glad he's not suspended but this seems to make the most sense. All the other stuff just seems like we're trying our best to make facts fit the version of the story we want to be true. Square peg, round hole and what not.

 

 

 

I agree with this. Not trying to make facts fit any version. I just think the Technicality is alot more than just the collector waited 2 days to ship sample. Shyman Das never ruled in a players favor before (at least that we're aware of), so I find it hard to believe he would just based on that. Braun more than likely did take something he shouldn't have, as I also find it difficult to believe MLB is "out to get" Braun. MLB clearly believes he's guilty of something, but it's also clear MLB failed to prove their case.

 

I have to say, you're entitled to your opinions, but I think this is pretty condescending. I'm a fairly smart, rational person, and I have a very different view of the likeliest underlying facts. I'm not going to insult your thought process that has led to your view; I wish you wouldn't insult mine.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't aware of what your view was on this issue, and I certainly had no intent to insult anyone's point of view. Nowhere in my post did I indicate I believe anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either dumb or irrational.

[RockCoCougars]

I've got to say that the less that Braun addresses this in the future, the less inclined that I will be to believe his story. He spent his presser covering everything from Kinko's hours to the herpes rumors while insinuating that more information and/or a lawsuit would be forthcoming.

[sdcheezhd]

"I wasn't aware of what your view was on this issue, and I certainly had no intent to insult anyone's point of view. Nowhere in my post did I indicate I believe anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either dumb or irrational."

 

Agreed, I think gregmag is addressing homer ("we're trying our best to make facts fit the version of the story we want to be true. Square peg, round hole") not you. Those comments are condescending and insulting. I don't think yours are.

 

For what it's worth I don't think Braun has any explaining to do. There are many reasons to think he wasn't juicing (summarized at least several times above) and only a strange invalid test on the other side. Braun's got no more reason to prove a negative than anyone else who's never had a positive test.

[BuckyBrewer61]

I've got to say that the less that Braun addresses this in the future, the less inclined that I will be to believe his story. He spent his presser covering everything from Kinko's hours to the herpes rumors while insinuating that more information and/or a lawsuit would be forthcoming.

 

Yeah, I have to say I'm getting very frustrated with this. I preface this by saying I still tend to believe Braun, and honestly will probably always believe him no matter what unless he is actually proven guilty due to my blind, undying love of the Brewers. And, I don't believe Braun owes an explanation to anyone here. Whether or not he is actually guilty, it is entirely his perogative to tell or not to tell the whole story.

 

But, for months he talks about how he can't wait to tell his side of the story. We hear all this talk about how once we hear the story behind the story we'll understand and his name will be cleared, and how this is all BS. But then, when he has a chance to clear the air, he talks in vagaries about the process, in vagaries about the collector while throwing him under the bus, and claims his name has been dragged through the mud and he is completely innocent. He says nothing about why his sample tested positive despite his supposed complete innocence. He spoke convincingly and strongly, and again, I tend to believe him, but he backs up his claims with no evidence whatsoever, at least to the public. If you can't say for legal purposes, then tell us that. If you are protecting anyone or anything, be it MLB or teammates, then tell us that. But to speak vaguely about how the "true story" will never come out, you have to know that just makes you look guilty.

 

Again, he doesn't owe me an explanation, but as a fan it is becoming increasingly difficult to defend him, and I don't blame anyone for being skeptical about this whole thing based on what little information the public has gotten. It may not be fair, but if I was not a Brewer fan listening to this whole saga, I'd probably think the guy was juicing too.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Braun's got no more reason to prove a negative than anyone else who's never had a positive test.

 

This I disagree with. Yeah there are plenty of logical reason's why Braun may be innocent here. But of the little facts we actually do know about, we know this - Braun's urine tested positive for elevated levels of testosterone. And the questions as to WHY? has never been directly addressed. There are a number of possibilities - tampering, lab error, storage error, etc. But, I'd assume the most common reason players test high for synthetic testosterone is...they are taking synthetic testosterone. Again, don't get me wrong, I tend to believe Braun here, but until someone actually fills in the blanks with something more than logic or conjecture, the court of public opinion will always be against Braun, particularly outside the state of Wisconsin.

[Ennder]

This I disagree with. Yeah there are plenty of logical reason's why Braun may be innocent here. But of the little facts we actually do know about, we know this - Braun's urine tested positive for elevated levels of testosterone. And the questions as to WHY? has never been directly addressed. There are a number of possibilities - tampering, lab error, storage error, etc. But, I'd assume the most common reason players test high for synthetic testosterone is...they are taking synthetic testosterone

 

Actually we don't know he tested for synthetic testosterone, we know someone who leaked info said it was synthetic but I haven't seen a single solid reference to it. We know that a sample that was handled poorly tested positive for elevated testosterone and it may belong to Ryan Braun assuming the 44 hours it disappeared didn't have any tampering or mislabeling. Basically we don't know anything. Gun to my head I'd assume he is guilty too but lets not pretend that we have any real info on this case, we have what the media has decided to spin so far.

[Nottso]

Occam's Razor would suggest to me that he's innocent. Everything we know about Braun suggests he's clean, most notably many years worth of measurables. Now a solitary thing pops up that says he isn't clean. That solitary thing has been shown to have been handled very poorly, and the independent arbitrator that has sided with MLB every time prior to this has sided with Braun.

[Jaycruiser99]

If he took something he is the most ignorant player in baseball... They know they are going to get tested during the playoffs.... in fact its the only time of year that players know for sure that they will be tested at some point. This is why I tend to believe him. Plus if Will Carroll's sources are true they demonstrated how Braun's urine could go from clean to dirty with a high T:E ratio right in front of the panel. What I am hoping and I know its a long shot is that the arbitrator's report leaks. He has to detail why he voted the way he did. Braun seems to be a smart man and he seems to be putting these comments out there for a reason and I am doubting its because he got off on a technicality. I could be wrong or naive but this is what I believe at this moment.

[homer]

Occam's Razor would suggest to me that he's innocent. Everything we know about Braun suggests he's clean, most notably many years worth of measurables. Now a solitary thing pops up that says he isn't clean. That solitary thing has been shown to have been handled very poorly, and the independent arbitrator that has sided with MLB every time prior to this has sided with Braun.

 

 

Right but there are new fast acting steroids that leave the system rather quickly.

 

And the arbitrator sided with Braun on the technicality. It doesn't mean he didn't put something into his body.

 

Kinda like a murderer getting off because the cops didn't read him his rights.

[GormanHarvey]

We have no way of knowing that the "technicality" was the only reason Shyam Das sided with Braun. I actually would be shocked if that is the only reason

[dlk9s]

Kinda like a murderer getting off because the cops didn't read him his rights.

No, it's not kind of like that at all.

[Jaycruiser99]

The media will have you believe that it was the "glove not fitting" technicality but we will probably never know why the arbitrator sided with Braun but if it was only the technicality that made him rule that way it would be shocking.

[rwa12]

I'm not really sure why that would be shocking. To the public's knowledge, no one has ever overturned a positive test. To my knowledge, everyone trying to win their case tried to clear their name by arguing that they must have taken a "tainted supplement", etc. Braun would seem to be the first to attack, for lack of a better word, a "loophole" in the system. This was his only chance of winning the case. MLB holds the player responsible for everything that goes into their body, either intentional or unintentional. The only way to "beat" the system is to go after it, rather than it's result.

 

It was the smart way to do it. He's going to lose a lot of fans due to this, and his reputation takes a permanent hit either way. If the collector came out and admitted he tainted the sample, there would still be a large segment of the population that would believe Braun bribed him, or some such nonsense.

 

I don't care if Braun took steroids. It would seem to be pretty obvious that he is not "juicing" in the traditional sense. If he did, I would wager it was to heal from his lingering injuries at the end of the season. If that's the case, so be it, I can live with that. Ultimately, what's important to me is that Braun is on the field for the season.

[Invader3K]

Very well said, rwa. I've been saying for a while that the definition of madness is "doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." If the past 12 (or however many) players failed to have their suspensions overturned, why would it have made sense for Braun to use the same failed arguments?

 

I still believe that Braun did not cheat, and I don't believe Laurenzi sabotaged him either. I think something weird happened with the sample or the testing to cause the positive result. What that is, we may never know. At this point, it isn't really productive to worry about it.

[JohnBriggs12]

Several things Braun said in his news conference that's either been forgotten or characterized as him "throwing the collector" under the bus. He said: "I won't be allowed to get into all the details..", and "there were a lot of things we learned about the collector...that calls into question..." So what are these details and what did they learn about the collector (or his son for that matter)? Why wouldn't Braun "be allowed to get into all the details"? Who would be preventing him? His legal team that's who. If they have something on the collector that's relevant to motive, then that's likely part of legal action in the future.

 

Because the news media did some cursory questioning of the collector's acquaintances and the collector himself issued a standard statement defending his actions, doesn't mean that he's pure as the driven snow or that Braun's team didn't find out information that has not been released. The fact that the collector has hired an attorney means one of two things. He's either going to sue Braun or he needs to defend himself over something.

 

There's still plenty we don't know. If you take Braun at his word, this likely isn't over just yet.

[1992casey]

It's more than a "technicality." And yeah, it's tough to think of a better word than "loophole." Maybe "flaw" is more accurate.

 

Whatever you want to call it, there needs to be a tweak to protect both MLB and the player. Something broke down.

[rwa12]

It needs to be over. There is no vindication in this. I wholeheartedly don't care if the fans don't find out every initmate detail, because quite frankly, it's none of our business. The longer this drags, the greater the effect it can have on Braun and his season. People, as a whole, have the attention span and memory of gnats. He's not even being talked about anymore. That's the way it should be. He's going to get booed everywhere, so be it. He's one of the best players in baseball, he's most likely going to be booed anyways. Braun persuing further action would be stupid, in my opinion. Unless he's got third party video of this guy pouring a bottle clearly labeled testosterone into a bottle, and forging his signature; very little good can come from it. Braun won this, it may not have been a flawless victory, and his reputation may take a hit, but that's the nature of the beast in the twitter era. Nothing needs to be confirmed as fact, and people believe what they want.

 

He's a juicer in the eyes of the masses, nothing will change this. It's like being accused of rape. Even if you are found inncocent, you're still the rapist.

[GormanHarvey]

I'm not really sure why that would be shocking. To the public's knowledge, no one has ever overturned a positive test. To my knowledge, everyone trying to win their case tried to clear their name by arguing that they must have taken a "tainted supplement", etc. Braun would seem to be the first to attack, for lack of a better word, a "loophole" in the system. This was his only chance of winning the case. MLB holds the player responsible for everything that goes into their body, either intentional or unintentional. The only way to "beat" the system is to go after it, rather than it's result.

 

It was the smart way to do it. He's going to lose a lot of fans due to this, and his reputation takes a permanent hit either way. If the collector came out and admitted he tainted the sample, there would still be a large segment of the population that would believe Braun bribed him, or some such nonsense.

 

I don't care if Braun took steroids. It would seem to be pretty obvious that he is not "juicing" in the traditional sense. If he did, I would wager it was to heal from his lingering injuries at the end of the season. If that's the case, so be it, I can live with that. Ultimately, what's important to me is that Braun is on the field for the season.

 

I agree that it was the best and only way to attack it by Braun and his team for a chance of being exonerated. I meant it would be shocking if he only got off on just the premise of the "technicality" of how the sample was handled. I believe there has to be more to it, such as his team being able to duplicate the elevated testosterone levels by replicating how the collector handled the sample, or something along those lines. I think it had to take some info like that to sway Das, above and beyond just the idea that the sample wasn't handled exactly to the letter of the law.