Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 2)

[dlk9s]

Mixing the samples would explain why Craig Counsell retired. He didn't want to face suspension when they figure out the mistake.

[JackNicholson1974]

How the heck does Passan have 3 people who are leaking information to him??

[jjkoestler]

Mixing the samples would explain why Craig Counsell retired. He didn't want to face suspension when they figure out the mistake.

\

 

Thank you for this. I was having an awful day.

[TooLiveBrew]

How the heck does Passan have 3 people who are leaking information to him??

Keep in mind Passan basically stole a FanGraphs article & posted it as his own last season, so this isn't exactly Mr. Ethics.

[Cyanogen5]

This is probably a really dumb question, but I'm good for those. So here goes: what if the sample was tampered with but done without out opening it? Microwaving it for a few seconds to kill off the flora wanna-bees that would signal a bad/contaminated sample, for example. Could that also throw off a test?

 

Something like that is definitely possible...potentially as simple as leaving the sample in unrefrigerated conditions 44 hours!! Seriously though, there are lots of ways that a sample could be tampered with without breaking the seal.

 

Who knows what happened. As far as I am concerend, given the odd circumstances of this test, if Braun never tests positive again then I will consider him innocent. Obviously if he tests positive again then, obviously, we will all think differently.

[Fear The Chorizo]

How the heck does Passan have 3 people who are leaking information to him??

 

Shyam Das, Ryan Braun, and Dino Laurenzi?

[dhoffman19]

How the heck does Passan have 3 people who are leaking information to him??

Keep in mind Passan basically stole a FanGraphs article & posted it as his own last season, so this isn't exactly Mr. Ethics.

 

I did not know that. Any more specifics?

[hawing]

Who knows what happened. As far as I am concerned, given the odd circumstances of this test, if Braun never tests positive again then I will consider him innocent. Obviously if he tests positive again then, obviously, we will all think differently.

 

I wonder if any of those who are 'vehemently' unhappy about the appeal result would be motivated to tamper with some future Braun sample, just to show that MLB was right and their process is sound, so there.

[RayKingsForemanGrill]

I've got to be honest - looking at this from a purely objective standpoint, I was hoping to get some more concrete details this week.

 

I'm glad Braun is in the lineup, but I don't feel as good about it the longer this drags out.

[rwa12]

I think this should be a call for MLB to change its process. With the billions that the sport generates, they can't put a little office/lab in the clubhouses of the teams? Keep a rotating medical staff? Little cost for peace of mind.

 

I've worked for the DOD for 14 years now, and the drug testing here is pretty much fail proof. I hate to say it, but if the government can figure out how to do something right, anyone can.

[clancyphile]

I think this should be a call for MLB to change its process. With the billions that the sport generates, they can't put a little office/lab in the clubhouses of the teams? Keep a rotating medical staff? Little cost for peace of mind.

 

I've worked for the DOD for 14 years now, and the drug testing here is pretty much fail proof. I hate to say it, but if the government can figure out how to do something right, anyone can.

 

Exactly - and Braun's sample would never have been used in a DOD test, as I have been told.

[yoyo49]

From Buster's article this morning: "They are furious that a player who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs won by challenging the administration of his test rather than contesting the presence of synthetic testosterone in the urine. (Although we haven't seen the official written decision from the arbitrator.)"

 

No real mention (in the non-ESPN insider portion) of the fact that you don't win banned substance arbitration cases by contesting the presence of synthetic testosterone in the urine.

[trwi7]

If you want a player to challenge the challenge the presence of synthetic testosterone then change your stupid system to the player is innocent until proven guilty.

[jjfanec]

I just wonder how Braun could have challenged test results that indicated a likelihood of synthetic testosterone in the system? There is zero way for him to win that. He went after what he could which was the administration of the test. If you can win a case going after one thing why would you waste your time going after the other.

[Oldcity]

I'm willing to store the next urine sample of any player who's furious over this in my basement.

[TooLiveBrew]

How the heck does Passan have 3 people who are leaking information to him??

Keep in mind Passan basically stole a FanGraphs article & posted it as his own last season, so this isn't exactly Mr. Ethics.

 

I did not know that. Any more specifics?

I'll have to do some digging. A quick MLB forum search (I posted about it when it happened) didn't yield any results.

 

EDIT: Crap. I got my national MLB writers confused. It was Jon Paul Morosi (Fox Sports), not Passan. Fwiw, here is the thread where it was discussed.

 

My apologies to Jeff Passan, a man of deep understanding & benevolence... as Ryan Braun can attest first-hand.

[Crew2323]

David Cornwell issued a statement reguarding the Collector's statement:

 

Ryan Braun presented a winning defense in the forum that counted. The landmark decision in Ryan's favor was based on the evidence and the plain meaning of the words in baseball's Joint Drug Program. The collector's attempt to re-litigate his conduct is inappropriate, and his efforts will only be persuasive to those who do not understand the evidence or the rules. Ryan Braun was properly vindicated. Both Major League Baseball and Major League Baseball Players Association should be applauded because their Joint Program worked.

 

I find it interesting that Cornwell says "his efforts will only be persuasive to those who do not understand the evidence or the rules." There is definitely more to this whole thing that we don't know.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Laurenzi's statement focuses on how he didn't tamper with the sample - Braun may have insinuated that it was very possible for him to tamper with it, but he didn't directly accuse him. Braun focused on trying to show how 44 hours could have led to just about anything happening to that sample, and listed several scenarios that, when you look at how the JDA is written, are plausible to have happened. Even if Braun doesn't focus on the collector during his statement, his identity would be known by now and the same questions Braun publicly stated would be asked by others.

 

At this point, I view both Braun and Laurenzi as victims of a poorly formulated drug testing procedure, unless additional evidence comes out to change my opinion. As written, Laurenzi didn't violate the JDA - but the procedure in the JDA could very well have led to Braun's sample results being screwed up. The appeal process outlined in the JDA worked to overturn a faulty testing procedure, IMO.

[Baldkin]

According to Dan Patrick yesterday, DP said that in order to get the ratio of testosterone in his system that he got, he basically would've had to been told he'd be tested, then go shoot himself up just before peeing in the cup.

 

Yep. Crazy.

[homer]

According to Dan Patrick yesterday, DP said that in order to get the ratio of testosterone in his system that he got, he basically would've had to been told he'd be tested, then go shoot himself up just before peeing in the cup.

 

Yep. Crazy.

 

 

Well it's possible he shot up and then was told to go pee in a cup. How much warning do they get? I thought it was minimal to no warning at all.

[jjfanec]

According to Dan Patrick yesterday, DP said that in order to get the ratio of testosterone in his system that he got, he basically would've had to been told he'd be tested, then go shoot himself up just before peeing in the cup.

 

Yep. Crazy.

 

 

Well it's possible he shot up and then was told to go pee in a cup. How much warning do they get? I thought it was minimal to no warning at all.

 

I think they said it happened after the game. Seems like that would be a weird time to shoot up. My guess is guys that do that stuff dont do it right at the stadium. Seems like a pretty bad idea

[Baldkin]

The one time guys KNOW they will be tested is during the playoffs. That is precisely when he would NOT be shooting up.

[gregmag]

What Baldkin's talking about is the part that has bothered me from the beginning. Subjectively, there's only one thing we know about Ryan Braun that supports the theory that he actually did what the initial test result indicated: he's a fierce competitor in a sport where a lot of fierce competitors have used PEDs to gain an edge.

 

That's it. Everything else cuts heavily against that scenario. In descending order of importance: The original test result was statistically implausible. He's a smart guy who knew the test was coming. He's a smart guy who apparently never needed PEDs before to put up HOF-caliber numbers and who well knew the general risks (medical and punitive) of doing so. Nothing about his performance or physical attributes / skills changed. He's never had a whiff of suspicion around him before, and he's also passed a whole bunch of drug tests. At least some reports say that, during his appeal, he offered to do absolutely everything within his power to confirm that he was clean (DNA, retest, polygraph). To speak as he did at the presser and be lying would make him either a sociopath or a multiple personality.

 

Let's say MLB had to prove him guilty, not even by the reasonable doubt standard we use in criminal law but by a "more likely than not" standard. Let's say, further, that they were even allowed to offer up indirect and circumstantial evidence, if they had any. What would they present? Would they have a single thing to go on, other than the initial test result (and the fact that PED use in baseball generally has been sadly common)? So they present that, and then Braun's team (a) points out that the test result is facially absurd, (b) establishes that the sample was improperly handled, and (apparently) © replicates the suspicious test result.

 

At that point, MLB would be laughed out of the room. Which seems to be why, even under the actual, much harsher "guilty until proved innoncent" standard, an arbitrator who had ruled for MLB in every one of (we think) a dozen prior appeals ruled for Braun.

[jjfanec]

Will Carroll interview from Disciples of Uecker. http://disciplesofuecker.com/dissecting-braun-appeal-interview-with-will-carroll/

 

Nothing really new but he explains a little synthetic steroid stuff.

[dhoffman19]

Will Carroll interview from Disciples of Uecker. http://disciplesofuecker.com/dissecting-braun-appeal-interview-with-will-carroll/

 

Nothing really new but he explains a little synthetic steroid stuff.

 

 

That's a good interview. Maybe the most important point he made is that we need to keep in mind we really don't know exactly why Das ruled the way he did. We've been getting little drips and drabs of information, all of which has been leaked to reporters by one side or the other, so everything we're hearing has been spun by someone. Even the doping experts who have been quoted are biased for their own reasons, and even they are forming their conclusions based off of spun information. We'll really never know what happened unless the report eventually leaks.