Ryan Braun exonerated, no suspension… Latest: MLB drops Eliezer Alfonzo suspension; case similar to Braun's (part 2)

[pebadger]

Cyanogen - I'm sleepy so I could only gloss over your post, but the 3x level caught my eye in a big way as well. I do think it's important to note that apparently bodybuilders have tested at 70-1 vs. Braun's 20-1, so perhaps Braun's result wasn't that absurd. Still though, to think that none of the juice-heads of the past five years even came close to Braun's level is a bit odd. I think Landis tested at 11:1 when he lost his TDF title.

 

The funny thing about the Landis T/E result is that the lab botched it so badly that the arbitration panel threw out the result as unreliable. Then they convicted him anyway because a lab that couldn't correctly do a T/E test could be trusted to do GC/IRMS instead.

[topper09er]

ESPN headline: Collector in Braun case: I followed protocol

 

MLB headline: Collector of Braun's sample refutes allegations

 

What the national headline should read: Braun's sample left unrefrigerated over weekend

[dlk9s]

What the national headline should read: Collector in Braun Case Says Something Totally Not Earth Shattering

[dlk9s]

If someone wants to teach me how to use one of those testing machines, I'll take out a big loan, buy an empty lab, buy a machine, hire a few people, and run all of MLB's peepee tests to infinity and beyond. I'm really smart. I also won the botany category in my high school's science fair and followed that up with a top-six finish in the SE Wisconsin science fair (botany category, not overall - I mean, come on). I got like all A's in my science classes, too.

[hawing]

Yeah a guy not loving the fact that he has to take a drug test after right after winning a playoff game means absolutely nothing. He probably wanted to go celebrate. People on both sides are really stretching for stuff right now

It's basically a not-so-covert smear campaign at this point.

 

Wait for some one to chime in saying, "One time I overheard Braun say he wished he could hit more home runs!"

 

Remember when Michael Jackson died and several Brewers used MJ songs as walkup music for a few games?

Remember what Ryan used? SMOOTH CRIMINAL.

[Fear The Chorizo]

ESPN headline: Collector in Braun case: I followed protocol

 

MLB headline: Collector of Braun's sample refutes allegations

 

What the national headline should read: Braun's sample left unrefrigerated over weekend

 

Collector of Braun's sample implicates wife - states she was in home with sample

[pebadger]

 

Remember when Michael Jackson died and several Brewers used MJ songs as walkup music for a few games?

Remember what Ryan used? SMOOTH CRIMINAL.

 

Why do I feel certain that somebody, somehwere is actually checking to see if this is true?

[jjkoestler]

ESPN just offered Hawing a blog. /blue

[TheCrew07]

I've stayed quiet on this even though the thread title has rubbed me the wrong way from the start. However as more details emerge I'm confident enough in my opinion to say that I believe "Exonerated" is a misrepresentation of the facts of the case.

 

There has been no reproducable/testable medical explanation for the synthetic testosterone in Braun's sample. He's gotten out of the suspension simply on the merits of a chain of custody dispute, it's a technicality of the process, not a vindication or explanation for the ratios in his test result or the presence of synthetic T. In fact, the medical community has as far as I've read and heard completely backed the protocol used to store the sample over the weekend, and have gone to great lengths to point out the consistent manner in which this has been handled. Pebadger has also spent a great deal of time explaining the testing process, both good and bad, it certainly has it's flaws. However, in this case protocol was followed, Braun signed that the seals were in place, the seals were not broken upon delivery, all of the samples for all of the players tested that day arrived at the lab at the same and in the same condition.

 

I don't know Ryan personally, he has been one of my guys for a long time though my enthusiasm for him has waned a bit (his HR antics early in his career grated on me), but as fan of the player I wasn't going to go to bat for someone I really don't know. I was holding out hope for a legitimate explanation as a Brewer fan, instead all he's done is throw the collector under the bus, which has rubbed me the wrong from the start. If you're going to throw stones you'd better come with more than vague character attacks and thinly veiled insinuations regarding what may have happened in that 44 hour window. If you're going to go to the tainted sample card, put some evidence out there that means something instead of this charade about the 44 hour window being a genuine cause for concern when it's standard practice all around the country to store samples in one's home when testing circumstances don't allow for immediate shipping.

 

The obvious solution here would be to only test Monday-Thursday in the future to eliminate "process concerns", but none of this "personal storage" issue has anything to do with Braun's innocence or guilt as long as the seals on the samples weren't broken. If all of the players tested that day had high ratios then something is up, however it appears just Ryan had this problem.

 

As a Brewer fan I'm slightly happy he's available for the entire season, but as sports fan I want some real answers one way or another. I'm not thrilled about the result at all, and while I didn't feel bad for Braun for failing a test, I do feel bad for this sample collector whom Ryan has basically thrown under the bus. It's not classy, it's tabloid character assassination against a reputable member of the medical community. If there were some shenanigans going on I absolutely want the guy held accountable, but on the surface there doesn't appear to be anything wrong out of the ordinary other than Braun failed the test. In fact, I would classify the explanation from the Braun's camp as mere political deflection at this juncture.

 

The only part of this entire saga I can really stand firmly behind Braun is the leak to the media. The process is intended to be confidential, in that regard Ryan was done a huge disservice, and everyone involved definitely needs to address that issue to ensure true confidentiality regardless of the player and his status within the game.

[WV Brew]

Crew07--

Let's assume that Braun is innocent. What exactly do you expect him to do to prove his innocence? He doesn't control the sample or the test-all he can do is guess and provide reasonable doubt. Short of someone confessing to adulterating the sample, he will never prove to your or the press' satisfaction that he is innocent because it's essentially impossible to do that.

My beef with this whole process is that it became unnecessarily combative. MLB seems to have gone into legalistic mode immediately upon Braun contesting the results. I know MLB and MLBPA are in this death match mentality but real lives and the reputation of baseball as a whole are at stake. I'm really disappointed in the MLB reaction to this whole episode.

[cnycerveceros]

I feel just like TheCrew. I am hoping the arbiter report reveals something more than we know now about why the decision was made. I doubt that it will. I'm upset this became public at all for Braun's sake, but also for mine. I really don't need another reason to feel duped by sports. It seems increasingly difficult to be a sports fan in good conscience.

[Invader3K]

I'm at the point where I don't really care anymore. I don't think Laurenzi willfully tampered with the sample, but I don't think Braun knowingly took a PE or whatever either. I really doubt once the Brewers made the playoffs Braun suddenly decided, "Hey, you know, I should start taking steroids," since he would have known he'd be tested.

 

I think something stupid probably happened that led to the positive test result. Unfortunately, we probably won't ever know exactly what that was, and at this point I don't think it's productive to really worry about it any further.

[clancyphile]

I've done research.

 

Doing research is my career. And I've posted more in this thread to discredit the science of the test than any one of his commentaries has proven the science.

 

 

I've spoken with a number of people involved in the arbitration hearing.

 

Involved, but he didn't say who attended. 'I spoke to the assistant who arranged travel and she said that Das wanted extra time to speak with Braun's representatives....Sounds suspicious'.

 

 

My best friend served eight years in the Marine Corps - and he noted that the Marines have a policy of not testing any sample that sat overnight - it was too easy for someone to mess with the sample otherwise. It's hard to imagine being more than an hour away from a local lab that could do drug tests.

 

He also noted that after 44 hours, anything in suspension in the urine would settle to the bottom - and as such, depending on which part of the sample was used, you could get a screwy T:E result.

 

Add to that the fact that the sample was kept at room temperature and/or in a car for a bit of time, and we probably have a simple explanation.

[Nottso]

Having followed both threads from the beginning, I haven't seen anything on the following (or I forgot- a sad but true reality). This is assuming that what we heard is true about 2 other tests being odd and then consequently thrown out.

 

Would Braun's test also have been thrown out if there had been no leak? In this scenario, Braun and 2 others tested positive, but the tests were strange to say the least. The players, and MLB, have been notified but MLB has not yet handed down any suspensions as they are contemplating the strange results and what to do about them.

 

Then Braun's result leaks. MLB is backed into a corner; a really tight corner. They dare not look as if they're sweeping a star player's reportedly failed test under the rug. They throw out the other 2 and move ahead on Braun, eliciting Braun's "this is total BS" remark and his apparent anger right from the start.

 

We've been told that the leak came from Braun's side and that everyone involved knows where the leak came from. They may have known where the leak came from as soon as it happened. Was Braun singled out (of the 3 reportedly bad tests) as punishment for the leak? Or was the fact that the leak came from Braun's side the "straw that broke the camel's back" seeing as how MLB was already backed into a really tight corner as a result of the leak?

 

I can see this as being grounds for Das' decision as well as MLB's strong reaction.

[dhoffman19]

Having followed both threads from the beginning, I haven't seen anything on the following (or I forgot- a sad but true reality). This is assuming that what we heard is true about 2 other tests being odd and then consequently thrown out.

 

Would Braun's test also have been thrown out if there had been no leak? In this scenario, Braun and 2 others tested positive, but the tests were strange to say the least. The players, and MLB, have been notified but MLB has not yet handed down any suspensions as they are contemplating the strange results and what to do about them.

 

Then Braun's result leaks. MLB is backed into a corner; a really tight corner. They dare not look as if they're sweeping a star player's reportedly failed test under the rug. They throw out the other 2 and move ahead on Braun, eliciting Braun's "this is total BS" remark and his apparent anger right from the start.

 

We've been told that the leak came from Braun's side and that everyone involved knows where the leak came from. They may have known where the leak came from as soon as it happened. Was Braun singled out (of the 3 reportedly bad tests) as punishment for the leak? Or was the fact that the leak came from Braun's side the "straw that broke the camel's back" seeing as how MLB was already backed into a really tight corner as a result of the leak?

 

I can see this as being grounds for Das' decision as well as MLB's strong reaction.

 

 

My understanding of the timeline is that the test(s) were done on Braun's sample, and MLB decided to press forward on Braun. Then, Braun's side appealed and began talking to consultants, after which one of those consultants leaked the info. So it seems that the decision to "press charges" on Braun was made before the leak.

 

As to the other two mystery players testing positive, as far as I know the only source on that was something Dan Patrick said one day on his radio show. I haven't seen anyone else report that since, and I think we really need to take that particular report with a massive grain of salt. Having said all that, if it IS true and that was a big part of Braun's defense, I could understand why Braun would not want to get into more details of his defense at his press conference. He wouldn't want to throw the other teammates under the bus.

[Ennder]

There has been no reproducable/testable medical explanation for the synthetic testosterone in Braun's sample

 

You don't actually find synthetic testosterone though, you find something abnormal and it gets classified as such. The sample should have never been tested in the first place given the delay in delivery so it is hard for me to think it is useful in any way.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again though, the only rational opinion I can have about this is we just don't know what happened. Until we get more details we just don't have very much information and if you have been following everything a lot of the information is contradictory so we need it clarified. If what Will Carroll said is true then Braun is cleared in my mind, but who knows if it is true at this point. We have been handed a small sliver of information so far and most of it is getting a pretty anti-Braun spin added to it so I just need more of the picture.

[Patrick425]

On the way home from work last night I was thinking that there are two facts we know:

 

A) Every player on every playoff team knows that they will be tested at some point during the playoffs

 

and

 

B) MLB is still strongly defending its drug testing program as being the best in all of sports and "vehemently" disagrees that it is fatally flawed.

 

So, based on these two facts, if you believe Braun is guilty you have to also believe one of the following:

 

A) Braun first started taking PEDs late in the 2011 season. However, it was a pretty sure bet that the Brewers were heading towards the playoffs and Braun should have known that he would get tested at some point before the end of October. So, if you believe this, you would also have to believe that Braun is incredibly stupid to pick that point and time to start using PEDs.

 

or

 

B) Braun has been using PEDs all along and just happened to get caught now. If you believe this, then you have to believe that the MLB testing policy is fatally flawed and you can't possibly believe that Braun is the only one using PEDs. In fact, you would have to believe that PEDs are still being widely used in the sport.

[Fear The Chorizo]

As to the other two mystery players testing positive, as far as I know the only source on that was something Dan Patrick said one day on his radio show.

 

I believe ESPN had something similar running on their ticker sometime in December as well, but it wasn't as specific. That same source Patrick cited was the one who indicated that Braun likely would be exonerated and not suspended - this was shortly after the actual appeal hearing and well before anyone else in the media was publicly saying Braun would likely be cleared.

 

Patrick's source may not have been directly involved with the hearing, but he/she may have gotten information from someone who was.

[pebadger]

And if it's B), Braun has been using PEDs all along for no measurable statistical of physical gain. Unless he has a crippling mental addiction to them which allows him to play baseball at a high level only because he thinks he must take the magic juice, you'd have thought he'd have given them up by now.

[NievesNoNO]

 

or

 

B) Braun has been using PEDs all along and just happened to get caught now. If you believe this, then you have to believe that the MLB testing policy is fatally flawed and you can't possibly believe that Braun is the only one using PEDs. In fact, you would have to believe that PEDs are still being widely used in the sport.

 

 

Oddly enough, I never really took this take on it but you're absolutely correct.

[jeffy]

I would only say that he may have been using them.

 

I would say it is likely there is plenty of usage still going on, no system is going to catch every violation. That does not make it "fatally flawed". What the testing does, in my opinion, is reduce the amount of using. Fewer players using and certainly those that do using at a lower dosages and using different substances than those used in the "steroid era" in order to get through the 4:1 screening ratio loophole. (4:1 is still 4x the typical or average)

 

My opinion is mostly based on the comments by Victor Conte, such as reported here (this was from prior to the leak):

 

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-11-21/news/30431117_1_hgh-testing-testosterone-blood-for-human-growth

[JohnBriggs12]

I find it interesting that Laurenzi has lawyered up. If things went down exactly as he describes it, and he's as pure as the driven snow, then what does he need a lawyer for unless he plans to sue Braun for defamation?

 

Braun in his prepared statement on Friday said they had learned things about the collector and the process that raises suspicions, but he didn't go into detail, because to do so would telegraph his case (if he has one) against Mr. Laurenzi and MLB. Now given the news media's lack of inquisitiveness, we might just want to wait to see if there is something that Braun and his legal team know that hasn't come out.

[1992casey]

Chris Narveson made a statement about the same time as Braun saying that there had been previous issues with samples collected in Milwaukee. I don't know if he was referring specifically to the Brewers or if he was referring to players from any team whose players were tested while in Milwaukee.

[clancyphile]

Chris Narveson made a statement about the same time as Braun saying that there had been previous issues with samples collected in Milwaukee. I don't know if he was referring specifically to the Brewers or if he was referring to players from any team whose players were tested while in Milwaukee.

 

As I recall, the collector caught him just as he was leaving the stadium.

 

I have to wonder if we do not have other false positives that have affected players.

[pebadger]

Just to take the other side of this for a minute, the best counterargument to the "always using" argument is that he intermittently uses some sort of T microdosing for recovery purposes. Leaving aside whether microdosing actually works in that way, that would be the accusation I would make if I were "prosecuting" the case.

 

Late in the year, he's run down, had problems with the hammy, needs to be fresh for playoffs, etc.

 

Here's where I would ask if investigating to support this theory: Who is Braun's source? Does he have an independent trainer he works with? An independent "nutritionist"? Who are these people? What are their credentials and connections? Is there a clubhouse guy involved? If so, is there a deeper problem?

 

Point being, if Braun was doing something, he most likely wasn't alone in the action. Most likely somebody advised him about a course to take. Most likely somebody else was involved in procurement. Fairly likely that that somebody else is working with other "clients". Is anybody pursing any of this journalistically, not necessarily to "nail" the other guys involved but to procure them as sources? You wouldn't have to get the actual supplier, but you can get a friend of a friend and work from there.

 

Or is the whole public case going to continue to hinge on one disputed test result? Get digging reporters. Either there is a story here or there isn't.