Per ESPN: Braun Tests Positive, May Face 50 Game Suspension (Part 2)

[bkroppy2]

What if Braun actually does have herpes, but that has nothing to do with the positive test. Hopefully the real story comes out soon so these rumors can all go away and Braun can restore his image even though it has been tarnished and he may have done nothing wrong. If he is innocent whoever leaked the test should be in big trouble

[brwrsfan]

The real story won't come out until the appeals process is over and maybe ruled on - and even then it may not.

 

Regardless if he is guilty or not, whoever leaked this information should be fired.

[Mike Felder]

That would not explain the elevated synthetic T levels.

Yep, mentioned that in the same paragraph you quoted.

 

Oh..sorry..didn't see that.

Poked around a bit...it's all stuff on the internet so take it for what it's worth, but I have seen that Graves can cause hyperthyroidism, which can cause low testosterone levels in males...so perhaps he's been taking a testosterone supplement to offset that? I don't know, it's probably grasping at straws, but I'm content to do that for a little while longer at least.

[fondybrewfan]

This does seem to be a pretty darn inappropriate conversation topic right now. We are really speculating about STD's now? I know a lot of fans are just trying to come up with something to explain away the weird test but it just looks foolish to speculate about this.

 

Everyone is better off waiting until the arbitration process is complete. Whether he gets suspended or not it is likely that a statement will be made regarding what he tested positive for and why.

 

If people were ashamed of certain fans for believing he was guilty right away it is even worse to spread around rumors of this nature.

[thebruce44]

This does seem to be a pretty darn inappropriate conversation topic right now. We are really speculating about STD's now? I know a lot of fans are just trying to come up with something to explain away the weird test but it just looks foolish to speculate about this.

 

Everyone is better off waiting until the arbitration process is complete. Whether he gets suspended or not it is likely that a statement will be made regarding what he tested positive for and why.

 

If people were ashamed of certain fans for believing he was guilty right away it is even worse to spread around rumors of this nature.

Its 2011. Is herpes really that taboo that when a rumor of this nature comes from several sources its inappropriate to discuss the medical implications?

[endaround]

This does seem to be a pretty darn inappropriate conversation topic right now. We are really speculating about STD's now? I know a lot of fans are just trying to come up with something to explain away the weird test but it just looks foolish to speculate about this.

 

Everyone is better off waiting until the arbitration process is complete. Whether he gets suspended or not it is likely that a statement will be made regarding what he tested positive for and why.

 

If people were ashamed of certain fans for believing he was guilty right away it is even worse to spread around rumors of this nature.

Its 2011. Is herpes really that taboo that when a rumor of this nature comes from several sources its inappropriate to discuss the medical implications?

Braun has Herpes? OMG! That means he has had sex!

[thebruce44]

This does seem to be a pretty darn inappropriate conversation topic right now. We are really speculating about STD's now? I know a lot of fans are just trying to come up with something to explain away the weird test but it just looks foolish to speculate about this.

 

Everyone is better off waiting until the arbitration process is complete. Whether he gets suspended or not it is likely that a statement will be made regarding what he tested positive for and why.

 

If people were ashamed of certain fans for believing he was guilty right away it is even worse to spread around rumors of this nature.

Its 2011. Is herpes really that taboo that when a rumor of this nature comes from several sources its inappropriate to discuss the medical implications?

Braun has Herpes? OMG! That means he has had sex!

Professional athletes have sex?!!?!

[jjfanec]

This stuff is the exact reason I dont see why Braun's team would have leaked the information. Braun cant talk about it, his team wont discuss details so everyone speculates. At worst he is a cheater and right now at best he has an STD? Why would you leak the story with this being your possibilities in public opinion

[TheCrew]

The whole STD thing really doesn't matter - Braun is still responsible to report that to MLB and get an exemption for any medication. I imagine he is obligated to do this with being a member of the MLBPA.

 

Whether or not he has a legit medical reason is really irrelevant as it's still on him if he didn't follow through and get his medications approved by MLB.

[Patrick425]

At worst he is a cheater and right now at best he has an STD?

I thought most cheaters had a STD? Ba dum bum....thank's folks! I'll be here all week!

[thebruce44]

The whole STD thing really doesn't matter - Braun is still responsible to report that to MLB and get an exemption for any medication. I imagine he is obligated to do this with being a member of the MLBPA.

 

Whether or not he has a legit medical reason is really irrelevant as it's still on him if he didn't follow through and get his medications approved by MLB.

Baseball players are required to report all drugs to MLB?

[Baldkin]

The whole STD thing really doesn't matter - Braun is still responsible to report that to MLB and get an exemption for any medication. I imagine he is obligated to do this with being a member of the MLBPA.

 

Whether or not he has a legit medical reason is really irrelevant as it's still on him if he didn't follow through and get his medications approved by MLB.

Baseball players are required to report all drugs to MLB?

I don't know that it is required, but if you get busted for it, then its your own fault for NOT reporting it. It sure would seem to be the smart thing to do: "Hey, I'm taking this medication, I want it approved so I don't miss a third of a season."

[brettac1]

As far as I know, there is a list of approved drugs/medications/supplements, etc. and that if a player is going to take something not included on that list without consulting their team trainer or MLB, then it's their problem if it causes them to fail a drug test. Seems to be a totally logical policy, in my opinion.

[jeffy]

At worst he is a cheater and right now at best he has an STD?

 

...or even worse-er he is a cheater and has an STD.

[pebadger]

I and other posters have often stated in this thread that the declaration that Braun had synthtic testosterone ("T") in his system is the part of this case that is most troublesome for him in his effort to avoid suspension. This post is going to be somewhat long, but hopefully it will provide a bit more background for those of you interested in a bit more of the science involved.

 

Testosterone is a substance that all of us produce in our bodies. We've also learned how to make "artificial" T. Chemically speaking, there is no difference between the two: T is T. How then can we tell them apart?

 

As with many problems in biochemistry, the answer has something to do with carbon ("C"). If you look at youc handy-dandy periodic table, you see that C has an atomic mass of just a hair over 12. An atomic mass of 12 indicates that a carbon atom is made up of 6 protons and 6 neutrons. That's exactly how the vast majority of carbon is constructed. The atomic mass of carbon listed on the table is a bit higher than 12 because a small percentage of carbon atoms found in nature actually have 7 (or, more rarely, 8) neutrons. These different types of the same general atom are called "isotopes". The "normal" carbon isotope is called carbon-12 (12C). The next heaviest isotope is called carbon-13 (13C).

 

Why is that important? It turns out that 13C, being just a tad heavier, doesn't react quite as well chemically as does 12C. It reacts in the same way, just not as well. It also turns out that certain chemical reactions just work more efficiently with 12C than they do with 13C, so given a "choice" the reaction will use 12C. Photosynthesis in plants is one of these processes that prefers 12C. The human body, while still preferring 12C, isn't quite as picky.

 

As a result, plants will usually have more 12C present in them than 13C, as compared to the ratio of 12C/13C present in the environment. Since we make synthetic T from plants (soy being quite common), synthetic T tends to have less 13C than does T produced by the human body, though both of them will have less than is generally found in nature.

 

Here's an analogy. A dollar bill and a dollar coin represent the exact same amount of value. You can buy a 20oz Coke with either. It just so happens that if your're looking to buy a Coke from a vending machine you're usually going to have more luck with a dollar bill than a dollar coin (because there more machines that have bill feeders than machines that accept the new dollar coins). If you order a Coke at the concession stand, the person taking the dollar probably doesn't care what kind of dollar it is. As a result, if you went and looked at the money present in all the Coke machines in the world, you're quite probably going to find a higher ratio of dollar bills/dollar coins in the machine than you would if you went an looked in the cash boxes of all the concession stands. Finally, since very few people use dollar coins to buy Cokes anyway, you're going to find more dollar coins out in the world at large (as a ratio of bills/coins) than in either of those two places.

 

Whew! So how does any of THAT help us out? Well, if you can find a way to measure the ratio of those carbon isotopes in a sample of T, you should have a good idea if it is more *likely* (not certain, likely) than not that the T is plant-based. The problem is, you can't just take a T sample from sombody. When T is introduced into your body (either after being produced internally or introduced from outside), your body puts that T to work and uses it up. The T is "metabolized"; i.e., your body uses it up in a bunch of biochemical reactions.

 

So if it used up, aren't you screwed if you're looking for the stuff? Well, not quite. Smart people have figured out how T is metabolized in the body, and they know what chemical products those reactions produce, and in what quantities. These products are called "metabolites". Some metabolites are waste, and are eliminated from the body in the passing of urine. Some of the metabolites are also made of carbon atoms which came from the T that metabolized.

 

Great. So all we have to do is find these particular metabolites swimming around with a bunch of other waste products in a urine sample, isolate them, figure out a way to count the 12C and 13C atoms which make up those particular metabolites, compare that to a standard and then make a judgment the likely origin of those atoms. Easy, right? What could possibly go wrong in such a simple process?

 

I'll try to work up another post (probably a few posts) later as to how that final paragraph works out. The science itself is quite impressive. As always, it's how we use the science for our own ends that causes all the problems.

[fondybrewfan]

Herpes itself isn't a taboo topic but hypothezising that a very public person has it seems a little off base. No one wants something like this rumored about them.

 

pebadger is way smarter than me

[CheezWizHed]

pebadger is way smarter than me

 

Now we know what the "pe" stands for... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[splitterpfj]

Can anyone help me with this?

 

We have a report that Braun did NOT test positive for a PED, but that he did test for a banned substance.

 

We have a report that Braun had synthetic T in his system.

 

Does that not seem contradictory? Wouldn't synthetic T be considered a PED?

 

Braun obviously tested positive for something, which set this whole thing off, I'm not suggesting otherwise, but isn't it possible that at least there has been some very bad reporting on this subject?

 

I realize someone could take a "banned substance" that would lead to increased T production by the body, but that would not be synthetic T.

 

How is it possible to not test positive for a PED, but to then show synthetic T in the body?

[TooLiveBrew]

isn't it possible that at least there has been some very bad reporting on this subject?

 

I think it's pretty clear that that's been the reality, not just a possibility, thus far http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[JohnBriggs12]

Herpes itself isn't a taboo topic but hypothezising that a very public person has it seems a little off base. No one wants something like this rumored about them.

 

pebadger is way smarter than me

There would be no rumors at all circulating if someone in MLB or the lab had not blabbed about the test results to ESPN and they had not reported it prior to a hearing which he is entitled to. There's certainly been a breach of confidentiality. The stuff circulating about herpes shows the need for confidentiality through the entire process, a fact that seems lost on ESPN and the leakers. For Braun, a revelation about herpes, assuming it clears the cloud of being a PED user, is certainly the lesser of two evils but none of this should be in the public.

[thebruce44]

Herpes itself isn't a taboo topic but hypothezising that a very public person has it seems a little off base. No one wants something like this rumored about them.

 

pebadger is way smarter than me

I hate to use the old "he started it" argument, but thats really what happened here. This is a lot different than me saying I know a girl that got herp from JJ Hardy. Its entirely relevant to this discussion, even though the discussion should never have been put in front of us in the first place.

[ninja33]

the synthetic testosterone is very difficult to explain, and if that's the case I don't really see how Braun has a defense (even if he took something unknowingly, whatever he was taking that could have potentially had synthetic testosterone probably should have been cleared with MLB).

 

As far as the herpes rumor, I don't think there's any truth to it. No antivirals that are commonly used would cause an elevated testosterone level. There could be others I'm not familiar with (because they're not used often, aka so expensive only a professional athlete could afford them), but I doubt it. The best explanation if it was somehow herpes, is that Braun had outbreaks triggered by low testosterone levels therefore he took/ate things to keep his levels normal/high enough. But again, anything he was taking that would modify his testosterone level is probably something that should have been cleared with MLB, so this doesn't make much sense either. I don't really think there's a good explanation if the testosterone was synthetic, unless a drug/supplement he was taking was tainted. they're capable of tracing that back, but if that was the case they were making I would assume it had been done by now.

[Nottso]

More foolishness. This genius is trying to connect Braun's increases in SB and triples to PED use. No mention at all of the managerial change or the different philosophies in the running game used by those managers..

[Nottso]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I would much rather Braun get busted for PED's than for him to live with herpes for the rest of his life.

[Patrick425]

Nottso[/b]]I guess I'm in the minority here. I would much rather Braun get busted for PED's than for him to live with herpes for the rest of his life.

Really? Call me selfish, but him having a STD does not effect me as a fan at all. I'm not trying to lend any validity to the STD rumors, but it would be hard for me to feel sorry for him (or anyone) either way since he could have taken steps to avoid either one of these.

 

If it was something like cancer, or parkinsons, or something of that nature vs. being busted for PED's, then I could see your point.