Per ESPN: Braun Tests Positive, May Face 50 Game Suspension (Part 2)

[Baldkin]

Jonah Keri chimes in, awesomely as always...

 

So we've got conflicting reports, claims of conflicting tests, with one

party making claims coming with a major conflict of interest. You have

to figure Major League Baseball would have preferred this news not leak

out until Braun had completed the arbitration process and a final

verdict had been issued. It's no wonder the league is refusing to

comment now, with so much uncertainty still hanging over the case.

 

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Continued from:

 

viewtopic.php?p=757302#p757302

 

Original Lead:

 

viewtopic.php?t=26571

[pebadger]

Even if Braun is super, highest testosterone ever guilty, I still can't wrap my head around him wanting this to be public information if there is even a slight chance that something with the samples would exonerate him. If he wanted to expose a bad testing system, why not just wait for MLB's decision and then lay out your defense to the public. At this point Braun's quote for the newspapers is, "It's BS". The details are very murky and he's not coming off looking very good.

As little benefit as Braun might have, MLB would have far less benefit. LAST thing in the world they want right now is one of their young stars turning up a positive test - it brings into question the entire drug testing system that has been in place in the minors.

 

I find it far more likely that it came from Braun's camp, especially considering his camp is still the one doing all the chattering right now - MLB has been silent this whole time.

MLB has been officially silent because they need to be. They can't officially speak to this matter in violation of their own confidentiality agreement. Whoever leaked this spoke out of school. It makes no sense for Braun to leak this if they are putting up a good faith defense that, if successful, would mean that nothing was ever revealed in the first place. The more likely explanation is that Braun's people are only speaking now because they feel they have to respond. The alternative is to let the simple narrative "Braun failed a test, therefore he's a doper" to stand unchallenged and be repeated, ad nauseum.

[jjfanec]

[quote author=pebadger wrote:

[/b]

MLB has been officially silent because they need to be. They can't officially speak to this matter in violation of their own confidentiality agreement. Whoever leaked this spoke out of school. It makes no sense for Braun to leak this if they are putting up a good faith defense that, if successful, would mean that nothing was ever revealed in the first place. The more likely explanation is that Braun's people are only speaking now because they feel they have to respond. The alternative is to let the simple narrative "Braun failed a test, therefore he's a doper" to stand unchallenged and be repeated, ad nauseum.

Agreed there is almost zero win for Braun releasing this and MLB cant talk. It seems more likely someone had some juicy gossip and felt like they had to tell someone. Who knows what they got as a result of leaking the story. I hope the truth comes out (whether he is guilty or not) and I hope the person who leaked this is discovered and fired.

[TheCrew]

jjfanec]Agreed there is almost zero win for Braun releasing this and MLB cant talk. It seems more likely someone had some juicy gossip and felt like they had to tell someone. Who knows what they got as a result of leaking the story. I hope the truth comes out (whether he is guilty or not) and I hope the person who leaked this is discovered and fired.

Even if that's the case, I would still bet on it being from Braun's circle rather than MLB's.

 

I'll say it again, it's far worse for MLB to have this get out - makes the entire minor league testing look like a joke.

[fondybrewfan]

I still don't get why Braun's circle would leak this unless they were sure he was guilty. If they felt they had any chance of winning the appeal no one would have said anything and the entire world would be oblivous right now and everyone would still love Braun. A leak from his side still makes no sense to me; they are putting up a fight and I don't know why they would also want to fight in the court of public opinion. Thats a no win situation IMO.

[jjfanec]

Agreed there is almost zero win for Braun releasing this and MLB cant talk. It seems more likely someone had some juicy gossip and felt like they had to tell someone. Who knows what they got as a result of leaking the story. I hope the truth comes out (whether he is guilty or not) and I hope the person who leaked this is discovered and fired.

Even if that's the case, I would still bet on it being from Braun's circle rather than MLB's.

 

I'll say it again, it's far worse for MLB to have this get out - makes the entire minor league testing look like a joke.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. This is far worse to Braun in my eyes. He will now be guilty to everyone outside of Milwaukee (and if this thread is an indication most in Milwaukee as well) the rest of his career. There is no win for him.

[TheCrew]

On the other hand though a reigning MVP has never tested positive before and the juicy gossip might have been too hard to keep secret.

Not trying to be an ass, but A-Rods test was kept under wraps for years.

[TheCrew]

Sure it's bad for the player, but it's far worse for the sport........ if you can get past the fandom of Braun/Brewers, it's pretty clear to see that.

 

Pretty much calls into question everything put in place to "clean up baseball"

[TheCrew]

I still don't get why Braun's circle would leak this unless they were sure he was guilty. If they felt they had any chance of winning the appeal no one would have said anything and the entire world would be oblivous right now and everyone would still love Braun. A leak from his side still makes no sense to me; they are putting up a fight and I don't know why they would also want to fight in the court of public opinion. Thats a no win situation IMO.

Maybe Braun banged his buddies gf and the guy wanted revenge.................. does it even matter how it got out at this point.

 

No offense, but you guys are focusing on the wrong thing.

 

The only question that should be asked right now is: Why did Ryan Braun have testosterone in his system that wasn't his?

 

Keep in mind the sample was tested multiple times - between all the comments, spinning, opinions - that can't be escaped and at some point, he's going to have to answer that question.

[jjfanec]

Sure it's bad for the player, but it's far worse for the sport........ if you can get past the fandom of Braun/Brewers, it's pretty clear to see that.

 

Pretty much calls into question everything put in place to "clean up baseball"

No it doesnt. It shows how serious they take the testing and that they dont let anyone slide. Buster Olney (i think) had a huge article on how this showed the mlb in a positive light because they take this stuff seriously. I can get past my Braun and Brewers fandom. I assume he is guilty (hope he isnt) but your view makes not sense to me. You can call it blind-fandom. I call it logic and reasoning

[TheCrew]

No it doesnt. It shows how serious they take the testing and that they dont let anyone slide. Buster Olney (i think) had a huge article on how this showed the mlb in a positive light because they take this stuff seriously. I can get past my Braun and Brewers fandom. I assume he is guilty (hope he isnt) but your view makes not sense to me. You can call it blind-fandom. I call it logic and reasoning

So, if he is guilty, you then think Braun just started doing this and that he is alone in doing this?

 

Sorry, but I can't follow that logic........

[jerichoholicninja]

Let's be real. Sure Ryan Braun was the MVP this year but he stills plays for Milwaukee. Casual fans, unless they are casual fans of a NL Central team, probably still don't think about Braun too much. Positive or not this doesn't affect the MLB fandom much outside of Wisconsin.

[Patrick425]

I can't get the first line of one of Braun's walk up songs out of my head....

 

"It was all good just a week ago..."

[jjfanec]

No it doesnt. It shows how serious they take the testing and that they dont let anyone slide. Buster Olney (i think) had a huge article on how this showed the mlb in a positive light because they take this stuff seriously. I can get past my Braun and Brewers fandom. I assume he is guilty (hope he isnt) but your view makes not sense to me. You can call it blind-fandom. I call it logic and reasoning

So, if he is guilty, you then think Braun just started doing this and that he is alone in doing this?

 

Sorry, but I can't follow that logic........

What? I dont understand what you are trying to say. Do you think I am implying Braun is the only guy who is doing steroids in baseball? No one thinks baseball is clean so baseball suspending a big name player shows they are serious about it. Yeah it could look bad that Braun hasnt tested positive before but right now in the eyes of the public Braun is definitely the villain not MLB. We arent going to change each others mind. You think his group leaked it and there is no way MLB did that. I think you are wrong. Lets let it go

[TheCrew]

What? I dont understand what you are trying to say. Do you think I am implying Braun is the only guy who is doing steroids in baseball? No one thinks baseball is clean so baseball suspending a big name player shows they are serious about it. Yeah it could look bad that Braun hasnt tested positive before but right now in the eyes of the public Braun is definitely the villain not MLB. We arent going to change each others mind. You think his group leaked it and there is no way MLB did that. I think you are wrong. Lets let it go

No, once things cool down the question is going to get asked - and again this is only IF he is guilty - how did he slip through the cracks for so long?

 

This is in no way good for "cleaning up baseball" because it's going to lead to that question, how did he skirt the system for so long and if he got away with it.............................. who elese?

 

The stink that was starting to come off MLB goes right back on. Agree to disagree, but that's just the way I see it.

[Mass Haas]

T.J. Quinn, one of the ESPN co-authors of the article that broke the story, responded to me when I brought to his attention the Brendan Katin updates a bit earlier in this thread --

 

I'm not sure what similarities there are, other than the fact that Katin initially tested with elevated testosterone levels and he denied any wrongdoing. I don't know if Katin subsequently tested positive for the synthetic test, as Braun did, or what the circumstances were, or any details about Katin's initial positive test. It also appears MLB never proceeded with his case, for whatever reason, which would also make it different than Braun's. But Braun is engaged in an active defense, and an initial positive test does not automatically mean someone has violated the policy. He'll have a chance to make his case in arbitration.

[thebruce44]

Let's be real. Sure Ryan Braun was the MVP this year but he stills plays for Milwaukee. Casual fans, unless they are casual fans of a NL Central team, probably still don't think about Braun too much. Positive or not this doesn't affect the MLB fandom much outside of Wisconsin.

This is completely false. The story is everywhere in every market.

[RightFieldCoder]

Braun has much more at risk than MLB. Part of the reason Braun signed an undervalued contract is he knew he could make up tons of money using his name. Even a public false positive costs him millions in rights fees. MLB did fine with McGuire, Sosa, etc so they don't stand to lose much if this is true. Braun's camp is doing full on damage control now that this got out. This is what you do when some other party leaks damaging information.

 

Whomever leaked it should be fired. Braun shouldn't keep someone who would do such a dumb thing. MLB shouldn't keep someone that can't keep contractual secrecy.

[TracyThom]

Huh? Why not? Other than their ability to play baseball at a high level, they are no different than the general population. He's not comparing the general populations ability to hit a 98 mph fastball to that of a MLB player (so I'm not even sure why that was brought up??). He's comparing the occurance of ADHD in the general public to that of MLB players. Why would MLB players happen to have a higher occurrence of ADHD among their ranks than that of the general population?

Why do people at certain professions have a higher level of suicide? or substance abuse? To immediately suggest that the ONLY reason MLB players have a higher % of ADHD diagnosis than that of the gen. pop. is that MLB players are using it to gain a competitive advantage is a pretty big stretch.

 

Maybe I should have phrased it this way:

How many people in the general population have access the medical care that MLB players get?

 

There are a TON of variables at play there and suggesting it is solely for performance enhancement is......... well, just flat out wrong imo.

 

Baseball is an intense game which requires a high level of commitment and focus to excel at - it would not surprise me in the least bit if the higher % was simply a natural occurrence.

Patrick worded my thoughts better than I could. Major league baseball players are being prescribed drugs like Adderall and Ritalin to get around the amphetamines ban. That's why so many MLB players are diagnosed with ADHD.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/02/05/baseball-s-other-drug-problem.html

 

[pebadger]

The ADHD drug abuse thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me. When taken as a valid treatment, those things are supposed to act to help the patient maintain calm and focus. When they are abused by people without the condition, they are supposed to act as a stimulant that gets a person 'high' and giddy to the point where they are not calm and focused.

 

I get that some might need/desire the stimulant effect over a long season, but at what cost if it is affecting your game otherwise? There must be some inside knowledge among users that there is a net positive to abuse it. Whether that "knowledge" is grounded in scientific fact is another question. When it comes to the issues of taking stuff to get an edge, whether that stuff is legal of illegal, there is simply a whole lot of unsubstantiated belief and faith in anecdotal evidence that is traded on amongst the players and other people involved in training, nutrition and the like.

[endaround]

The ADHD drug abuse thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me. When taken as a valid treatment, those things are supposed to act to help the patient maintain calm and focus. When they are abused by people without the condition, they are supposed to act as a stimulant that gets a person 'high' and giddy to the point where they are not calm and focused.

 

I get that some might need/desire the stimulant effect over a long season, but at what cost if it is affecting your game otherwise? There must be some inside knowledge among users that there is a net positive to abuse it. Whether that "knowledge" is grounded in scientific fact is another question. When it comes to the issues of taking stuff to get an edge, whether that stuff is legal of illegal, there is simply a whole lot of unsubstantiated belief and faith in anecdotal evidence that is traded on amongst the players and other people involved in training, nutrition and the like.

When taken for short bouts (ie right before a game) it is supposed to help with concentration. Same reason students in college take it before exams.

[jeffy]

ADHD drugs are also abused by college students: http://www.npr.org/templa...ry.php?storyId=100254163

 

I'm sure if MLB players feel they get an advantage from these things, whether they truly do or not, many of them find a way to get them prescribed.

[chuckiehacks]

Jeff Passan at Yahoo has an article out today about this. Nothing new, but this doesn't sound good:

 

Indeed, MLB had its chance to dump the Braun case. Part of its joint drug agreement with the players’ union calls for a meeting after the confirmation of a positive from the second sample. If both parties agree there is no reason to proceed – whether because of a chain-of-custody problem or another circumstance – they can overturn the suspension.

MLB didn’t.

[bucksman4]

This still sickens me. Braun had so much to lose and very little to gain by cheating. No more MVPs...possibly no All Star selection, no statue outside Miller Park, no number retired, lose endorsement deals, jeapordize his restaurants and other businesses...and most importantly, no chance of ever making the HOF. He slapped the Brewers franchise in the face and all of his fans and supporters.

[brwrsfan]

This still sickens me. Braun had so much to lose and very little to gain by cheating. No more MVPs...possibly no All Star selection, no statue outside Miller Park, no number retired, lose endorsement deals, jeapordize his restaurants and other businesses...and most importantly, no chance of ever making the HOF. He slapped the Brewers franchise in the face and all of his fans and supporters.

I think it's a tad early for this. We have to at least wait until the appeal process, all the facts come out and we can really hear the entire story, whatever it may be.