Braun Suspended for Remainder of 2013 Season: Busted by A-Rod/his people?

[rondoman]

Great take by Gabe Kapler on PEDs:

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21574

 

 

Gabe really has turned into a great writer.

 

 

 

I can fully comprehend the spell cast on my peers. Fame, power, and the financial security of generations all contribute to an irresistible scent. It’s like the episode of Survivor in which the contestants have to give up the long-term advantage in a challenge for the instant gratification of a giant slice of chocolate cake and an ice-cold glass of milk while in a state of starvation and dehydration.

 

Had I been unable to resist the temptation, I believe I would have maintained the strength that I had at my peak, or perhaps increased it. As I became better mechanically and through experience, that power would play up. The ripple effect of that would lead to confidence, which would in turn lead to improved performance. There is a school of thought that PEDs don’t help your eye-hand coordination; that they won’t make you a better player because you still have to hit the ball. That’s a debatable topic, but I reckon that bigger, stronger, faster, more powerful men will hit the ball harder and throw the ball faster. That’s nearly indisputable. In baseball, there isn’t a factor more responsible for success than confidence. I’ve never in my life had a player tell me different. If a man is stronger on the field and can recover more quickly, he’s inherently going to believe in his ability more. I submit that if anything, the value of PEDs to a player has been drastically underpublicized as opposed to overblown.

 

Then:

 

The men who have tested positive for PEDs include Ryan Franklin (skinny), Bartolo Colon (not skinny), Melky Cabrera(not muscular), Neifi Perez (skinny) etc. Do bodybuilders use steroids? Of course. Like the American population, users come in all shapes and sizes. Men in major league baseball who don’t use also vary greatly in body type … Until we have a positive test, an admission of guilt, an accepted suspension or some other unequivocally accurate anecdotal evidence, we’d be wise to assume innocence so as not to unjustly jeopardize the reputations of undeserving human beings.

[FVBrewerFan]

haha thank you thurston for taking the time I didnt want too responding to that

 

Not sure if you could be more condescening, but I doubt it. If you don't agree the Braun saga has no effect on signing players, making trades, or extending current players, fine. I'm sure most people would agree with you. I don't think the points I made are actually that crazy.

 

Why were the trades far an few between at the deadline? Maybe for a few reasons, I bet the whole Biogenesis thing had an effect. Teams may have been very gun-shy about trading for a problem. Do you really believe players wants to stay in Milwaukee, or come to Milwaukee with Braun as the face of the franchise? This isn't some relief pitcher who's on the list.

 

Like I said, money always talks loudest. But I don't think too many players would choose to be part of that clubhouse these days. Playing in a home stadium where the face of the franchise is getting boo'd at home, and worse on the road. And the ones who are on the roster, their performance won't be affected one bit?

 

But if you want to believe Braun will have no effect whatsoever on wins and losses next year if he's still around, be my guest.

 

As for Braun's no trade clause, why is that an issue? I would think he would jump at the chance to start fresh elsewhere, especially if it's clear that's what MArk A., fans, media, etc. wants. Of course you're not going to get "fair" value. But I would jump at "damaged goods" value right now. Some of you guys have no idea how bad this is going to be.

[mothershipconnection]

the way he pushed blame on the collector (ignoring the current reports that appear to be false)

 

The collector needs to stop being viewed as a Ryan Braun victim. Had that dude done his job correctly, Braun would've been suspended in 2012 and nobody would know the collector's name. Had the sports media not plopped him in the public eye, nobody would know the collector's name. Braun never named the collector, he referred to him as "the collector" and "he".

 

Braun's obviously done plenty of shady stuff, but I don't see evidence that he committed any awful deeds toward the collector.

[rondoman]

The collector did what he was supposed to do and Brauns team implied he may have altered the sample.

[homer]

The collector did what he was supposed to do and Brauns team implied he may have altered the sample.

 

 

Shyam Das disagrees.

[ninja33]

so do the people he worked for that fired him...you know, for not doing his job properly.

[Hitman_Hart]

He did his job properly, his employer disagreed with him. The collector broke protocol. That's a "technicality" but it's correct. The collector was at fault. Das acted appropriately given the facts thy have been made public.

[rondoman]

I believe Laurenzis employer was actually the one who screwed up and fired him to save face. Laurenzi actually did follow his employer, CDT's protocol on the situation.

[BrewCrewForever]

According to the JDA he did not follow protocol. Chain of custody was broken and the sample was basically thrown out. Does not matter who's fault it was his or his employer.

[homer]

so do the people he worked for that fired him...you know, for not doing his job properly.

 

 

Wait, huh? Shyam Das didn't do his job properly? I'm confused with all the pronouns.

[dlk9s]

As for Braun's no trade clause, why is that an issue? I would think he would jump at the chance to start fresh elsewhere, especially if it's clear that's what MArk A., fans, media, etc. wants.

I would think it would be quite the opposite for Braun. He's much more likely to be treated well in Milwaukee than somewhere else, especially a big market. He's "one of ours" - I mean look at how much more harshly fans and media from around the country have reacted ever since this whole thing started last year as compared to Brewers/Braun fans.

 

If he went to Boston, for example, he'd be the cheater that they didn't even like that much in the first place. There would be no reason for anyone to embrace him. The media there would be relentless. In Milwaukee, yeah, he cheated and yeah it was a fiasco, but we (the collective "we" - I'm not necessarily speaking for myself or people on BF.net) have always liked him, his teammates have liked him, and he has shown an appreciation for the city and the state. We may be upset with him, but there's a much better chance that we can eventually forgive, even if we don't forget.

 

Bottom line if I'm Braun and I'm presented with a trade scenario: I'd rather stay where people know me and have loved me, even if they see me as a jerk (understatement) at the moment, rather than go to a city where they only see me as a jerk.

[ninja33]

so do the people he worked for that fired him...you know, for not doing his job properly.

 

 

Wait, huh? Shyam Das didn't do his job properly? I'm confused with all the pronouns.

 

Sorry, too many pronouns, not enough names, and too many people being fired. I was talking about the collector not following protocol. Maybe there's a difference between his employer's protocol and the JDA's...I'm not really sure so I apologize if I misspoke.

 

But I'm in agreement that I don't think he's any sort of a victim. The arbitrator (correctly) ruled he didn't do his job according to protocol, Braun got off, he got fired. Makes sense to me.

[RockCoCougars]

I've never seen anything definitive that Dino was fired, did I miss something? Last I heard, he was in Florida collecting samples for the Cubs.

[rondoman]

I heard he was fired but then I also heard he wasn't. Im not sure. I know Dyas was fired.

[Thurston Fluff]

Why were the trades far an few between at the deadline? Maybe for a few reasons, I bet the whole Biogenesis thing had an effect.

 

You might want to think about that bet for a second. For it to have had any effect on this season's trades to date first you have to think a team would have to want a player Doug wanted to trade. Then you have to think that team didn't do so because he felt Doug should have given him a deal because of the Braun thing. Do you really think that is how it played out? They either want a player to help their playoff chances or not. Unless you can show me how Braun's suspension effects another team's desire to get to the playoffs I don't get the connection.

 

Playing in a home stadium where the face of the franchise is getting boo'd at home, and worse on the road. And the ones who are on the roster, their performance won't be affected one bit?

 

Braun isn't going to get booed at home all season. He'll get his for a few games but this isn't the one story that will last forever. Even if it did if a player can't perform when someone else on their team is getting booed I think finding that out now so we can weed that out is a good thing. They just don't have the mental fortitude needed to help.

As far as the face of the franchise thing goes I'm not even sure what that means. For me the face, or faces, of the franchise are those who the fans identify with. I think Gomez, Segura and Lucroy have all surpassed Braun as face of the franchise.

 

As for Braun's no trade clause, why is that an issue? I would think he would jump at the chance to start fresh elsewhere, especially if it's clear that's what MArk A., fans, media, etc. wants. Of course you're not going to get "fair" value. But I would jump at "damaged goods" value right now.

 

Where can he go to get a fresh start? This isn't a local issue. He is a pariah in all of baseball. There is no fresh start. He has to work through this. I think it would be much easier to do it around people who know you for more than just being a cheating, lying, scum bag. That would be here. I doubt Mark A wants him to go if he can't get commensurate value for him. That would be a fiscally bad idea. Which leads me to your third point. Getting damaged goods value for him now is the very definition of selling low. The brewers won't, and shouldn't, do that. This whole thing is bad enough as it is. Why compound the problem by giving away players and/or money and cripple the franchise for years to come from a knee jerk reaction? That is a flat out stupid business decision.

 

Some of you guys have no idea how bad this is going to be.

 

Or you are overreacting. One or the other.

[dlk9s]

I've never seen anything definitive that Dino was fired, did I miss something? Last I heard, he was in Florida collecting samples for the Cubs.

People also act like he was some poor guy relying on this job to put food on the table (not that losing any job is good). He had/has a full-time job and one that seemed pretty solid at that. I do feel bad for Dino having to go through all sorts of crap, though.

[chickinbrickin]

Braun will not be traded. He will also have no negative impact on the clubhouse either. These guys are grown men not high schoolers. This team is establishing new leaders and Braun will lay low, get to work, and fall in line. It won't be long before he is accepted back by his teammates and the fans.

 

As far as free agents go, what big name free agents do you think Milwaukee will try to sign over the next few years? Not many, and I highly doubt the few they go after will sign elsewhere because they would have to play with Braun. Again, these are grown men, and this is a business.

[brewmann04]

Sorry but if the Brewers get any good offer for braun they will do what best for business.

[Fear The Chorizo]

This thread is circling the drain, much like Braun's reputation...

 

why would any sane GM try to trade for Braun, no-trade clause or not? He's owed 100+ million dollars, and at this point nobody knows if he's capable of being an MVP caliber player, or if PED use was the only reason he became a great, or even serviceable, MLB player. The Brewers better hope he's not a shell of himself, otherwise that contract is going to completely cripple the organization. Until he proves he can still produce, no team would touch him in a trade unless they'd give the Brewers nothing in return.

 

Not sure if this is the best thread to post this, but Gabe Kapler wrote an awesome article regarding PEDs and his own struggles on whether or not to take them during his career...I believe it's somewhere on Baseball Prospectus' site - very good read and offered a lot of perspective from a player's standpoint during the heyday of PED use before MLB started testing.

[rondoman]

Great take by Gabe Kapler on PEDs:

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21574

 

 

Gabe really has turned into a great writer.

 

 

 

I can fully comprehend the spell cast on my peers. Fame, power, and the financial security of generations all contribute to an irresistible scent. It’s like the episode of Survivor in which the contestants have to give up the long-term advantage in a challenge for the instant gratification of a giant slice of chocolate cake and an ice-cold glass of milk while in a state of starvation and dehydration.

 

Had I been unable to resist the temptation, I believe I would have maintained the strength that I had at my peak, or perhaps increased it. As I became better mechanically and through experience, that power would play up. The ripple effect of that would lead to confidence, which would in turn lead to improved performance. There is a school of thought that PEDs don’t help your eye-hand coordination; that they won’t make you a better player because you still have to hit the ball. That’s a debatable topic, but I reckon that bigger, stronger, faster, more powerful men will hit the ball harder and throw the ball faster. That’s nearly indisputable. In baseball, there isn’t a factor more responsible for success than confidence. I’ve never in my life had a player tell me different. If a man is stronger on the field and can recover more quickly, he’s inherently going to believe in his ability more. I submit that if anything, the value of PEDs to a player has been drastically underpublicized as opposed to overblown.

 

Then:

 

The men who have tested positive for PEDs include Ryan Franklin (skinny), Bartolo Colon (not skinny), Melky Cabrera(not muscular), Neifi Perez (skinny) etc. Do bodybuilders use steroids? Of course. Like the American population, users come in all shapes and sizes. Men in major league baseball who don’t use also vary greatly in body type … Until we have a positive test, an admission of guilt, an accepted suspension or some other unequivocally accurate anecdotal evidence, we’d be wise to assume innocence so as not to unjustly jeopardize the reputations of undeserving human beings.

[Nottso]

There was little activity throughout MLB at the trade deadline, not just with the Brewers. At the deadline the Biogensis cloud was pretty much hanging over every player on every team, and every GM out there knew it.

[stoutdude04]

That, and more teams feel they can make a playoff push, so they were reluctant to make trades. IMO.

[torts]

http://disciplesofuecker.com/tuesday-morning-coffee-evidence-vs-character/14068

 

pretty good article

[sveumrules]

I wonder which will come first, a full on admission of guilt by Braun or a retraction from Olney following Tulo & Votto's comments.

 

I do not wonder about which of the two I care less about. Both are tied at "not one bit".

[torts]

http://ronroenickestolemybaseball.com/2013/08/20/better-ask-a-lawyer-type-defamation-edition/

 

So good