Braun Suspended for Remainder of 2013 Season: Busted by A-Rod/his people?

[hawing]

If he doesn't make an acceptable apology, I'm not sure what will happen.

I'm not looking to be confrontational, but what would constitute an acceptable apology to you? I have been trying to take as neutral an approach as I can to this whole circus, but am frankly not sure how doubts won't crop up in my head whenever Ryan speaks. I mean, ANYTHING the dude says now can theoretically be called into question. Didn't he already 'bet his life' in a previous statement that now appears to be false? Where do you go from there? "No, really, this time I swear" ?

[bigredrobbo]

If he doesn't make an acceptable apology, I'm not sure what will happen.

I'm not looking to be confrontational, but what would constitute an acceptable apology to you? I have been trying to take as neutral an approach as I can to this whole circus, but am frankly not sure how doubts won't crop up in my head whenever Ryan speaks. I mean, ANYTHING the dude says now can theoretically be called into question. Didn't he already 'bet his life' in a previous statement that now appears to be false? Where do you go from there? "No, really, this time I swear" ?

 

 

"I swear on the lives of the children I might have, unless the 'roids have shriveled my testes to the size of raisins", perhaps?

[burnzy24]

I think it's very possible for Olney to be incredibly biased and have an agenda and for Braun to be a scum bag. It's not one or the other.

 

 

It's also very possible for both Braun and the collector to be a scum-bags as well and not one or the other. Not saying it is true or even likely, but up until late 2011 everyone thought Ryan Braun was a stand-up guy. Just because we later found out Braun is not does not mean that everyone else involved with is automatically a saint. Even if the collector was an anti-semite, it wouldn't matter because Braun was caught in a very public lie with everything else.

[Thurston Fluff]

Kirk Gibson ripped Braun a new one but seems to forget who he hired. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/kirk-gibson-rips-ryan-braun-forgetful-matt-williams-195112568.html

I think what Braun did was wrong. How he handled it even worse. But I think it's time some of these guys get off their high horse. Gibson played until the mid 90's. He knew there was performance enhancing drugs being used. None of the players said squat about it then. That silence was part of why it got so big. Then to feign indignity that he lost a playoff game due to Braun's cheating while having a cheater on his staff seems the height of hypocrisy.

 

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending Braun, which I'm not trying to do, does anyone else feel whoever leaked the initial news of his positive test is partially responsible for how this thing blew up? Granted it does not excuse Braun for making some very poor choices. Especially how he approached his appeal after it broke. I just sometimes I wonder if it had not been for a leak of a supposedly confidential appeals process if would Braun have gone down the road of attacking the collector. It appears the bad stuff like the hits on the sample collector's character came after the news broke. Before that it was simply an appeal based on poor collecting protocol. Which, given the outcome of the appeal, was suspect and should have been changed. If it was all kept in house there would have been no reason for him to defend his reputation by smearing someone else's. Nobody would have known. That does not in any way imply that I think Braun was justified in doing it. He knew the dude was innocent and did it anyway. But I think whoever violated the confidentiality of the testing system has to take some blame for letting the story get out of hand. If everyone would have respected the confidentiality process the chain of events that lead to a sample taker getting his name dragged through the mud would have been broken.

[Brewers1982]

Take this story for what it's worth......I'm from a small town in Montana (Glasgow) and a local boy (I'm close to his brother) was drafted in the 15th Round as a Pitcher for the Tampa Bay Rays in 2007 (Michael Southern) http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=southe001mic .

 

Anyway.....Southern ended up injuring his shoulder and was rehabing in Tampa during the 2008 season and happened to be rehabbing with one of Braun's College teammates. Braun's former teammate (University of Miami) told Southern that Braun was a notorious juicer in college.

 

Keep in mind this story was told to me in 2008 before any of these allegations came to light. Needless to say, chances are Ryan was, is and probably always will be a juicer. I wasn't surprised one bit when the news broke.

 

Well....it looks like my story has some credence behind it now http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9574808/lawsuit-ryan-braun-alleges-college-doping-fraud

 

Ralph Sasson, 29, makes a number of personal accusations against Braun, saying in the lawsuit that Braun doped through his years at the University of Miami, committed academic fraud and accepted money while a student.

 

Just to add some to your story. I have a friend who's son was a minor prospect coming out of college. He was not drafted but went to quite a few MLB tryout camps. He talked to a lot of MLB scouts and word was that it was well known that Braun was a juicer. Possibly going all the way back to HS. I never really believed these reports when he originally told me about this. Now....................

[DocLuna7]

If this is true than the Brewers as an organization, and the baseball ops side especially, were either ignorant or complicit. Nether seem like a good place to be. That being said, I am not sure how much stock I put into it being "well-known." The Brewers sure banked a lot of its marketing strategy on a guy whose use of ped's could have torched them at any time.

[jerichoholicninja]

If this is true than the Brewers as an organization, and the baseball ops side especially, were either ignorant or complicit. Nether seem like a good place to be. That being said, I am not sure how much stock I put into it being "well-known." The Brewers sure banked a lot of its marketing strategy on a guy whose use of ped's could have torched them at any time.

 

If you think Braun is the only top player who has been juicing since high school but whose organization chose to look the other way, I think you are sadly mistaken.

[LS Brewer]

Well....it looks like my story has some credence behind it now http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/95748 ... ping-fraud

 

 

Ralph Sasson, 29, makes a number of personal accusations against Braun, saying in the lawsuit that Braun doped through his years at the University of Miami, committed academic fraud and accepted money while a student.

 

While I have every reason to now believe that Braun used PED's for several years, it is far to early to place much credibility on this guy's lawsuit. First, anyone can say almost anything they like in filing a lawsuit and be protected from libel claims. Remember, these are only accusations. Second, this Sasson guy claims to be a law student who Braun orally retained to perform background research on the sample collector for $5,000.00. This is not credible. Internet-based legal research on a guy's background does not cost $5,000.00, even when you are using high-priced lawfirms. Most private investigators conducting internet-based research charge $500.00, not $5,000.00. Besides, why would Braun hire a non-licensed law student when he has millions of dollars and capable lawyers representing him?

 

EDITED: I see by looking at Milwaukee County records that the Defamation suit has been filed. You can't access the document on-line that I can tell.

[reillymcshane]

It all just goes to the point that Braun needs to admit everything he's done and provide the details, no matter how embarrassing or painful.

 

Every time something 'new' emerges it just makes him look worse and worse. So just lay it all out there, answer every question, apologize to everyone and their cat, and start brand new.

 

If he doesn't confess to everything, provide all the details, he will constantly be forced to answer new questions and allegations, which only continues to throw everything he says in doubt.

 

As I said earlier, it's not like admitting to everything is going to hurt his reputation. It's trashed. Adding more trash onto his trashed rep can't really hurt him that much more.

[Funketown]

I personally don't care that much about PED usage. The way Braun has gone about this whole situation is pretty disgusting though.

 

While I don't doubt that Olney is kind of a clown with an agenda, please realize that (i) Olney being a clown and (ii) Braun being a skeezeball are not mutually exclusive.

 

Braun is now officially Lance Jr. in my mind, and that ain't good.

[DocLuna7]

If this is true than the Brewers as an organization, and the baseball ops side especially, were either ignorant or complicit. Nether seem like a good place to be. That being said, I am not sure how much stock I put into it being "well-known." The Brewers sure banked a lot of its marketing strategy on a guy whose use of ped's could have torched them at any time.

 

If you think Braun is the only top player who has been juicing since high school but whose organization chose to look the other way, I think you are sadly mistaken.

 

That's not what I am saying. What I am saying is that an organization like the Brewers, particularly after the Mitchell Report, would be absolutely idiotic to give the longest contract in franchise history to a guy who is bound to get caught at some point. I would prefer to think that ownership and the front office was ignorant, but perhaps that is mistaken.

[Nottso]

There is also the possibility that Braun was using something, but that it was not synthetic Testosterone. Hence the appeal, the "bet my life that substance never entered my body," etc.

[markedman5]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/220220491.html

Well....it looks like my story has some credence behind it now http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/95748 ... ping-fraud

 

 

Ralph Sasson, 29, makes a number of personal accusations against Braun, saying in the lawsuit that Braun doped through his years at the University of Miami, committed academic fraud and accepted money while a student.

 

While I have every reason to now believe that Braun used PED's for several years, it is far to early to place much credibility on this guy's lawsuit. First, anyone can say almost anything they like in filing a lawsuit and be protected from libel claims. Remember, these are only accusations. Second, this Sasson guy claims to be a law student who Braun orally retained to perform background research on the sample collector for $5,000.00. This is not credible. Internet-based legal research on a guy's background does not cost $5,000.00, even when you are using high-priced lawfirms. Most private investigators conducting internet-based research charge $500.00, not $5,000.00. Besides, why would Braun hire a non-licensed law student when he has millions of dollars and capable lawyers representing him?

 

EDITED: I see by looking at Milwaukee County records that the Defamation suit has been filed. You can't access the document on-line that I can tell.

[Patrick425]

I'm glad "well-known" is being put in quotes because that is where it belongs. If it really were well known someone would be able to find some article somewhere, especially around the time he was drafted, that would have said something like "rumors circulate around Braun and possible PED usage". Rumors that circulate around a few students that know him on campus does not qualify as "well-known". Some are making it sound like he was the Bonds of college baseball....there does not seem to be any evidence of this amount of speculation going on during those days (that doesn't mean he was not using them then however).

 

While anything is possible, I find this talk that the Brewers "looked the other way" to be a bit far-fetched. Someone has to first explain to me how they would have known. It's not like he was shooting up in the clubhouse. Speculation about what he was taking sounded like some sort of "gummy bear" that he popped in his mouth. He was passing all the drug tests and unless they had a PI following him around or other players came up to management and told them that they knew he was taking, I don't see how anyone can accuse the Brewers of turning a blind eye to Braun's usage of PEDs.

[owbc]

I'm not looking to be confrontational, but what would constitute an acceptable apology to you? I have been trying to take as neutral an approach as I can to this whole circus, but am frankly not sure how doubts won't crop up in my head whenever Ryan speaks. I mean, ANYTHING the dude says now can theoretically be called into question. Didn't he already 'bet his life' in a previous statement that now appears to be false? Where do you go from there? "No, really, this time I swear" ?

 

That's a good question. He has to start by doing what reillymcshane said--come clean on everything, don't dodge questions, and at least appear to be sorry. This has been mentioned before, but he also needs some sort of action--community service or literally standing outside of Miller Park and personally apologizing to fans, or something. Right now, it's only Mark A. and the Brewers organization that is apologizing to fans. They don't even have anything to be sorry for.

 

Now I understand if he can't say everything right away because of ongoing legal stuff, etc. etc. But he's going to have to speak up eventually. I want to forgive him and move on too, but that probably won't happen for awhile. Since all of his success was based on a giant lie, he basically has to reinvent himself. Who knows if he can be successful at that.

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't think it matters what he says or does. Even if he does come clean nobody would know for sure if he was coming all the way clean. Even if people believe he is it still seems self serving to do so only after he got caught. There is also the chance he Paula Deen's it and does more harm than good. If he sounds like he's rationalizing or downplaying it he could end up looking worse. Really there is little he can do now to repair his reputation so why try? It won't help and may hurt. All he can do is keep quiet, play and hope it goes away sometime down the road.

[JohnBriggs12]

Kirk Gibson wasn't just a major league baseball player. He was a big time college football star at the same school that produced one of the all time juicers, Tony Mandarich, about a decade later.

[dhoffman19]

"Ralph Sasson, 29, makes a number of personal accusations against Braun, saying in the lawsuit that Braun doped through his years at the University of Miami, committed academic fraud and accepted money while a student."

 

Just to clarify something, I read the lawsuit and unless I missed something, there is nothing in there even accusing Braun of academic fraud or of of doping at Miami. Those things come from a separate document called "requests for admissions" that Sasson served on Braun. The distinction is very important becasue plaintiffs must have a reasonable basis for any allegations in a complaint or risk being sanctioned by the Court. He can ask anything he wants in the request for admissions, however. Also, in the request for admissions, all Sasson does is ask Braun to admit or deny those things, but does not accuse Braun of them. Of course, Braun will probably just refuse to answer those questions, arguing they have nothing to do with the lawsuit itself.

 

It's also very interesting that the requests have been made public. I don't practice in Wisconsin, but in most places those types of docs aren't even filed with the Court. So either the rules are different in Wisconsin, the guy filed them in court just so they'd be made public, or he sent them to the paper himself.

[Patrick425]

[sarcasm]Well then I guess since Ryan Sandberg played on the Cubs prior to S. Sosa, he must have been a big juicer and K. Griffey Jr. must have gambled on baseball since he played on the Reds about 10 years after P. Rose played, for that matter anyone who has ever played on the White Sox probably bet on baseball at some point.[/sarcasm]

 

Is this really the extent of the arguments we are going to use against anyone who is critical of Braun?

[Patrick425]

"Ralph Sasson, 29, makes a number of personal accusations against Braun, saying in the lawsuit that Braun doped through his years at the University of Miami, committed academic fraud and accepted money while a student."

 

Just to clarify something, I read the lawsuit and unless I missed something, there is nothing in there even accusing Braun of academic fraud or of of doping at Miami. Those things come from a separate document called "requests for admissions" that Sasson served on Braun. The distinction is very important becasue plaintiffs must have a reasonable basis for any allegations in a complaint or risk being sanctioned by the Court. He can ask anything he wants in the request for admissions, however. Also, in the request for admissions, all Sasson does is ask Braun to admit or deny those things, but does not accuse Braun of them. Of course, Braun will probably just refuse to answer those questions, arguing they have nothing to do with the lawsuit itself.

 

It's also very interesting that the requests have been made public. I don't practice in Wisconsin, but in most places those types of docs aren't even filed with the Court. So either the rules are different in Wisconsin, the guy filed them in court just so they'd be made public, or he sent them to the paper himself.

 

Yeah..even I have to say that the whole Sasson thing really seems to be coming from someone with a huge chip on his shoulder.

[MadScientist]

I don't think it matters what he says or does. Even if he does come clean nobody would know for sure if he was coming all the way clean. Even if people believe he is it still seems self serving to do so only after he got caught. There is also the chance he Paula Deen's it and does more harm than good. If he sounds like he's rationalizing or downplaying it he could end up looking worse. Really there is little he can do now to repair his reputation so why try? It won't help and may hurt. All he can do is keep quiet, play and hope it goes away sometime down the road.

 

Keeping quiet will not do any good because he was so loud about is 'innocence'. Quiet will equal arrogantly satisfied with his actions and motivations, and merely sorry he got caught. Think of it this way, if you found your wife or girlfriend was cheating on you, it's possible nothing she says will ever allow you to trust her again, but some things might make it so you don't despise her forever. Genuine remorse over all his actions would be the best bet, but it will be difficult to convince people that he is sincere. Things that could help would be full disclosure on how long he's been juicing and what his motivations were when he started and why he continued. Giving back the MVP and ROY because he feels he does not deserve them would at least give some credence to his sincerity. I don't want to see tears in is apology, that would just annoy me and come off as manipulative.

[JackNicholson1974]

"Ralph Sasson, 29, makes a number of personal accusations against Braun, saying in the lawsuit that Braun doped through his years at the University of Miami, committed academic fraud and accepted money while a student."

 

Just to clarify something, I read the lawsuit and unless I missed something, there is nothing in there even accusing Braun of academic fraud or of of doping at Miami. Those things come from a separate document called "requests for admissions" that Sasson served on Braun. The distinction is very important becasue plaintiffs must have a reasonable basis for any allegations in a complaint or risk being sanctioned by the Court. He can ask anything he wants in the request for admissions, however. Also, in the request for admissions, all Sasson does is ask Braun to admit or deny those things, but does not accuse Braun of them. Of course, Braun will probably just refuse to answer those questions, arguing they have nothing to do with the lawsuit itself.

 

It's also very interesting that the requests have been made public. I don't practice in Wisconsin, but in most places those types of docs aren't even filed with the Court. So either the rules are different in Wisconsin, the guy filed them in court just so they'd be made public, or he sent them to the paper himself.

 

 

As a Wisconsin attorney I can tell you that sending requests to admit along with the complaint is a strategy used sometimes, but not often. Usually, as you stated, they are exchanged privately along with interrogatories. I read them as well, and like you I came away thinking Sasson is completely full of it, and this is coming from a guy who stopped defending Braun a long time ago. The requests to admit have little or nothing to do with the allegations contained in the complaint, which of course makes them irrelevant and pointless. For the non-lawyers out there it would be akin to me filing a lawsuit over a car accident and then asking 40 admissions involving cheating on your wife. I wonder what law school this guy goes to, hopefully he is a 1L and isnt close to practicing real law yet, because that was a pretty pathetic and preposterous attempt at legal work.

[Patrick425]

I don't think it matters what he says or does. Even if he does come clean nobody would know for sure if he was coming all the way clean. Even if people believe he is it still seems self serving to do so only after he got caught. There is also the chance he Paula Deen's it and does more harm than good. If he sounds like he's rationalizing or downplaying it he could end up looking worse. Really there is little he can do now to repair his reputation so why try? It won't help and may hurt. All he can do is keep quiet, play and hope it goes away sometime down the road.

 

Keeping quiet will not do any good because he was so loud about is 'innocence'. Quiet will equal arrogantly satisfied with his actions and motivations, and merely sorry he got caught. Think of it this way, if you found your wife or girlfriend was cheating on you, it's possible nothing she says will ever allow you to trust her again, but some things might make it so you don't despise her forever. Genuine remorse over all his actions would be the best bet, but it will be difficult to convince people that he is sincere. Things that could help would be full disclosure on how long he's been juicing and what his motivations were when he started and why he continued. Giving back the MVP and ROY because he feels he does not deserve them would at least give some credence to his sincerity. I don't want to see tears in is apology, that would just annoy me and come off as manipulative.

 

Agreed...as long as he doesn't use motivations as excuses. Clearly one of the top motivations to rob a bank is for the money. A thief could give some sob story in court about how he needed money to pay the rent or for chemo treatments (ok...maybe I have been watching to much Breaking Bad!), but that doesn't mean that I would have any more sympathy for him. Many people who can't pay bills don't feel the need to break the law in order to solve their issues.

[Brewers1982]

Chatter on twitter is that Braun is releasing a written statement.

 

IMO this would be a very very bad move. He needs to come clean. Face the press and answer questions. He needs to start showing he's sorry for what he's done. A written statement is the cowards way out! I certainly hope this rumor is incorrect!

[Patrick425]

Chatter on twitter is that Braun is releasing a written statement.

 

IMO this would be a very very bad move. He needs to come clean. Face the press and answer questions. He needs to start showing he's sorry for what he's done. A written statement is the cowards way out! I certainly hope this rumor is incorrect!

 

Well, unless maybe the statement is something along the lines of being unable to speak at this point in time because of ongoing matters.