Braun Suspended for Remainder of 2013 Season: Aaron Rodgers' Reaction

[igor67]

There might, might be an argument for stiffer penalties but an automatic lifetime ban is way way over the top. Braun has managed to make the idea of due process about as popular as it was after the OJ trial, but you absolutely need it. If you think I'm a jilted Braun defender than I encourage you to read this link http://forensicpsychologist.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/new-analyses-undermine-perception-of.html I'm a biochemist by training (verifiable as well if you check the deepest message board archives as well) and for once that report is NOT sensationalist our DNA detection methods have gotten that sensitive that it is trivial to pick up incidentally deposited DNA. I am not an expert on the various current methods for PED detection, but I guarantee that in the arms race to keep up with new types of drug regimes there will inevitably be weird fluky sounding mistakes in the tests as we learn about there limits. Statistics itself also provides a powerful argument for the inevitability of condemning an innocent person on the basis of a single testing procedure, even a well thought out one.

The second argument is very simple once testing becomes an all or nothing game there is no incentive for telling the truth and every incentive to follow-up the cheating with whatever means the persons conscience will allow (keeping in mind that we already know they were willing to cheat). As a corollary other athletes in particular seem to keep harping how Braun's punishment wasn't enough because the big money in his contract doesn't kick in until next year. This completely ignores the value of his lost endorsements, which by itself is fairly significant. The future value of lost endorsements and business opportunities probably dwarfs the difference in lost salary. It is a hard thing to quantify, but one consistent thing in the Wisconsin market is that there is a lot of money to be made in retirement if you are a franchise guy. How much of that went out the window? I'd even argue that has special value because that money is like a combination of insurance and a pension that is nice to have in a world where athletes often find themselves in financial trouble once the paychecks stop coming in.

[xisxisxis]

Without the Miami New Times MLB doesn't know a damn thing about Biogenesis and the 12 players suspended probably passed several dozen tests. How people (especially Bud) thinks the tests work is absolutely laughable to me.

 

Colon, Grandal and Braun all tested positive. While that isn't all of the players implicated in the Biogenesis probe, it is hardly 'none'. I don't know why MLB doesn't get a clue from the other sports leagues and play the 'game' where the league pretends they have rigorous testing in place and the players move on when they are caught. I don't remember the last NFL player that questioned a PED suspension or a team even commenting. For some reason MLB keeps shining a spotlight on the elephant in the room while everybody else just ignores it.

[Funketown]

Richard Sherman won an appeal in the NFL last season.

 

I'm not sure why MLB and its fans seem to care so much more than the NFL. One does have to wonder if the league would be better off these days keeping this stuff a bit closer to the chest...

[rwa12]

All of the marquee records have been broken by PED guys, so I'm not sure what we're protecting anymore?

 

Why should baseball be played like its 1932? Why should we ignore developments in modern medicine? Let these guys use these steroids to heal (their intended purpose), and then send them on a minor league rehab assignment until they pee clean.

 

Or, just let these guys bulk up like football players, and enjoy the home run spectacular that follows. If I'm not mistaken, HGH hasn't been shown to be at all harmful to the body, so why not let these guys bulk up and swing for the oceans? How about this, if you decide to juice, you waive your chances at Cooperstown, but make up for the sorrow with your $35 million dollar/year contract to hit 85 home runs out of Yellowstone?

 

Baseball lost it's ability to wear the white wedding dress sometime ago, why must we try to pretend it is pure?

[thebruce44]

All of the marquee records have been broken by PED guys, so I'm not sure what we're protecting anymore?

 

Why should baseball be played like its 1932? Why should we ignore developments in modern medicine? Let these guys use these steroids to heal (their intended purpose), and then send them on a minor league rehab assignment until they pee clean.

 

Or, just let these guys bulk up like football players, and enjoy the home run spectacular that follows. If I'm not mistaken, HGH hasn't been shown to be at all harmful to the body, so why not let these guys bulk up and swing for the oceans? How about this, if you decide to juice, you waive your chances at Cooperstown, but make up for the sorrow with your $35 million dollar/year contract to hit 85 home runs out of Yellowstone?

 

Baseball lost it's ability to wear the white wedding dress sometime ago, why must we try to pretend it is pure?

 

Like pretty much everything, HGH can be harmful is taken improperly. But its nothing like the steroids guys were on when baseball went through the juiced balls and players era...you know, the one that brought all the fans back after the strike.

[xisxisxis]

There might, might be an argument for stiffer penalties but an automatic lifetime ban is way way over the top.

 

I think the current penalties are fine. The thing I would change is that if you test positive or are linked to PED use then your contract converts from guaranteed to non-guaranteed.

[igor67]

That wouldn't be nearly as bad xis, but for some guys that's still easily 100 million reasons to follow-up one bad decision with a worse one. A full calendar year would be about as high as I'd go for a first offense. Double's every offense after that, so anything after a second would effectively end a career (and the second one would in all likelihood anyway).

[BarneyStinston]

So I imagine what pitching would be like without Tommy John surgery? One third of the league's pitchers has had the surgery. Performance enhancement is so jaded against PED's, without a lot of merit, it is absolutely ridiculous. Cheating is all in the eye of the beholder. MLB would have you believe Tommy John surgery "saved" baseball, but PED's are ruining it. Funny that you can prove actual performance enhancement in baseball with TJ surgery, and nobody knows what specific enhancement PED's actually does, yet PED's are what is against the rules.

[Patrick425]

So I imagine what pitching would be like without Tommy John surgery? One third of the league's pitchers has had the surgery. Performance enhancement is so jaded against PED's, without a lot of merit, it is absolutely ridiculous. Cheating is all in the eye of the beholder. MLB would have you believe Tommy John surgery "saved" baseball, but PED's are ruining it. Funny that you can prove actual performance enhancement in baseball with TJ surgery, and nobody knows what specific enhancement PED's actually does, yet PED's are what is against the rules.

 

Seems somewhat like apples and oranges. People who have had Tommy John surgery faced a pre-mature career ending injury. Taking PEDs that help you perform better and/or recover from an injury quicker is not quite the same thing.

[BarneyStinston]

So I imagine what pitching would be like without Tommy John surgery? One third of the league's pitchers has had the surgery. Performance enhancement is so jaded against PED's, without a lot of merit, it is absolutely ridiculous. Cheating is all in the eye of the beholder. MLB would have you believe Tommy John surgery "saved" baseball, but PED's are ruining it. Funny that you can prove actual performance enhancement in baseball with TJ surgery, and nobody knows what specific enhancement PED's actually does, yet PED's are what is against the rules.

 

Seems somewhat like apples and oranges. People who have had Tommy John surgery faced a pre-mature career ending injury. Taking PEDs that help you perform better and/or recover from an injury quicker is not quite the same thing.

 

PED's can certainly extend a potentially career ending injury in many cases. A juiced-up hitter still has to apply his other skills to take advantage of the additional strength. Tommy John surgery involves grafting a tendon which is not normally there and instantly replacing a tendon that normally degrades over time. In the same way, he still has to make use of his skills to take advantage of the additional stability. Why do you think there was a rash of parents wanting their kids to get premature Tommy John surgery to throw harder?

[igor67]

All medical interventions carry some risk. Things like Tommy John are pretty safe, but not risk free. If players getting Tommy John created a perverse incentive for otherwise healthy players to get the surgery that would be just as wrong as PEDs. Conversely when all of us are getting HGH injections to slow the aging process (i.e. read it is as normal a medical procedure with well researched risks that would be comparable to say antibiotics) then it might qualify under the advancement of medical science idea. I'm pretty comfortable assuming that something that interacts physiologically with as many different systems as HGH carries some types of interaction risks even if they aren't remotely recognized yet. Given that it stimulates growth of cells it would not be shocking to find out that long term supplementation increased risks for cancers as one potential side affect.

[trwi7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X24kZHcUOos

[reillymcshane]

I don't know if this is the best place to put this, but Jack Clark is accusing Pujols of doing steroids.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/08/former-mlb-player-accuses-pujols-verlander-of-peds/

 

Here's a quote:

 

“I know for a fact he was (taking roids). The trainer that worked with him, threw him batting practice from Kansas City, that worked him out every day, basically told me that’s what he did.”

[BarneyStinston]

All medical interventions carry some risk. Things like Tommy John are pretty safe, but not risk free. If players getting Tommy John created a perverse incentive for otherwise healthy players to get the surgery that would be just as wrong as PEDs. Conversely when all of us are getting HGH injections to slow the aging process (i.e. read it is as normal a medical procedure with well researched risks that would be comparable to say antibiotics) then it might qualify under the advancement of medical science idea. I'm pretty comfortable assuming that something that interacts physiologically with as many different systems as HGH carries some types of interaction risks even if they aren't remotely recognized yet. Given that it stimulates growth of cells it would not be shocking to find out that long term supplementation increased risks for cancers as one potential side affect.

 

The problem is, the time of your life when HGH is highest (as a youth) is actually the least likely period for developing cancer growth. As we age and our HGH levels drop, our cancer risk significantly increases. I am sure there is a particular level of HGH that is optimal for overall health that probably is best supplemented as we age.

[Hitman_Hart]

The trainer has claimed this to be false, but nothing regarding Pujols would surprise me.

[igor67]

Any potential cancer risk is raw speculation, it was intended only as a plausible example. It is entirely possible that HGH supplementation done correctly may benefit health, but we are a long way away from being sure that is true and that we know the optimal level. There are rarely any freebies when it comes to health. Almost all of the lifespan increase has been driven by eliminating obvious diseases of malnutrition, but mostly infections disease prevention by better public sanitation and vaccines. Most medicine on the other hand is given knowing that in that situation the benefits outweigh the side effects. A simple correlation of HGH levels with youth is only enough at best to entertain future research. You could easily obtain almost identical correlations with height, and conclude we need to get shorter. We know that is the aging process many things go awry, things not closely related to regulation by HGH as far as I'm aware. Similarly cancer is a disease that takes years to develop (hence it's relative absence in youth except in unusual cases) anything that speeds the growth of cells could potentially accelerate the development of a cancer at a general theoretical level hence why I used it as an example.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The trainer has claimed this to be false, but nothing regarding Pujols would surprise me.

 

 

I post on a multi-team board, and the same Cardinals fans that vehemently denied their Golden God would ever do something as heinous as use PEDS are now all basically saying "Yup...not surprised"

 

Jackals.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't know if this is the best place to put this, but Jack Clark is accusing Pujols of doing steroids.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/08/former-mlb-player-accuses-pujols-verlander-of-peds/

 

Here's a quote:

 

“I know for a fact he was (taking roids). The trainer that worked with him, threw him batting practice from Kansas City, that worked him out every day, basically told me that’s what he did.”

 

This shouldn't be surprising. Pujols has always had a huge upper body and is injured pretty often.

[TooLiveBrew]

I don't know if this is the best place to put this, but Jack Clark is accusing Pujols of doing steroids.

 

Here's the link:

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/08/former-mlb-player-accuses-pujols-verlander-of-peds/

 

Here's a quote:

 

“I know for a fact he was (taking roids). The trainer that worked with him, threw him batting practice from Kansas City, that worked him out every day, basically told me that’s what he did.”

Man, even only to St. Louis, that's an impressive arm...

[mothershipconnection]

A simple correlation of HGH levels with youth is only enough at best to entertain future research. You could easily obtain almost identical correlations with height, and conclude we need to get shorter.

 

I was gonna say diaper use, but no, that comes back around the time you're most prone to cancer. Thus, it both protects and leaves you vulnerable.

[chadomac]

So.... it'd be nice to hear from Ryan Braun soon...

[pretendastronaut]

I wonder if A-Rods appeal has any effect on that. Have any of the other suspended players released any statements?

[jerichoholicninja]

Braun isn't going to say anything of substance. It will be your standard "I made some mistakes and I've learned from those mistakes and I hope everyone can forgive me."

[Patrick425]

I'm guessing he won't speak until the ARod appeal is decided. Even then, can anyone believe a word that comes out of his mouth at this point?

[502 to Right]

I don't need a speech/apology from Braun since I assume he will lie again anyway. I'll never be a big fan of his going forward but I hope he's able to play at a high level when he gets back.