Braun Suspended for Remainder of 2013 Season: Aaron Rodgers' Reaction

[mothershipconnection]

The day after the Braun suspensions, the local ESPN guys were throwing a hissy fit about how Braun got off easy and is the slimiest person who has ever lived. Today, the same dudes were talking about their own guy (Nelson Cruz) facing suspension and the talk turned to how this would impact the Rangers' season and Cruz's prospects in free agency this winter.

[AZBrewCrew]

The day after the Braun suspensions, the local ESPN guys were throwing a hissy fit about how Braun got off easy and is the slimiest person who has ever lived. Today, the same dudes were talking about their own guy (Nelson Cruz) facing suspension and the talk turned to how this would impact the Rangers' season and Cruz's prospects in free agency this winter.

 

The Phoenix sports talk show were ranting about how the 2011 NLDS would have been a landslide by the Dbacks if it werent for Braun and how he should be booed on every appearance he makes in AZ from now on (spring training and AZ series)

[Invader3K]

 

The Phoenix sports talk show were ranting about how the 2011 NLDS would have been a landslide by the Dbacks if it werent for Braun and how he should be booed on every appearance he makes in AZ from now on (spring training and AZ series)

 

Like that wasn't going to happen anyway...

[Brewer Fever]

The Phoenix sports talk show were ranting about how the 2011 NLDS would have been a landslide by the Dbacks if it werent for Braun and how he should be booed on every appearance he makes in AZ from now on (spring training and AZ series)

 

This kills me. Has any caller or host ever brought up the possibility that any of the DBacks players very well might have been taking PEDs? Once again I'll guarantee there were some who were. And for the audience of this forum's sake, let's just imagine that some of them were.

[RockCoCougars]

The day after the Braun suspensions, the local ESPN guys were throwing a hissy fit about how Braun got off easy and is the slimiest person who has ever lived. Today, the same dudes were talking about their own guy (Nelson Cruz) facing suspension and the talk turned to how this would impact the Rangers' season and Cruz's prospects in free agency this winter.

 

As an argument against folks who claim that steroids 'don't even help much', Cruz is example A. He went from AAAA to a star. I used to bag on Melvin for trading him, but no more.

 

As for Braun, I'd probably expect him to put up numbers moving forward comparable to this year. I have a strong suspicion that he was juicing last year.

[fleehaw]

I guess I don't know enough about the timing of testing. Does the collection always occur after the games? What about off days?

 

A player could take a certain level of a substance in which their levels are back in the normal range within 24 hours. The question is whether the lower level dose has a similar or any therapeutic properties as a larger one. For instance, if I take something that raises my epitestosterone levels to a ratio of 5:1, 6:1, etc. to testosterone level at its peak in my body, and then fall below 4:1 within 12-16 hours, I could potentially reap the rewards with very little risk of getting caught.

 

Also, if a player had an abnormally low testosterone level, would it be wrong if they supplemented with something that brought them into the normal range? Wouldn't that be a level playing field?

[RightFieldCoder]

You can get a medical pass to take certain substances, but you must get that pass before taking. I assume that an abnormally low testosterone level might count, but I'm thinking someone wouldn't make it all the way to the MLB with that condition.

[SoupTown]

I agree with the line of thinking: since many (now known) users were tested 100s of times and passed, it means many many many more players are indeed using. As was said: testing caught almost nobody. A journal of the dealer caught them

 

How does MLB answer that? All they have proven is their testing does not work. And likely dozens and dozens of non-caught players are still using and continue to use and will continue

 

What a great advantage knowing you will not be caught as long as your supplier channel remains secret

 

What a mess

[Outlander]

The Phoenix sports talk show were ranting about how the 2011 NLDS would have been a landslide by the Dbacks if it werent for Braun and how he should be booed on every appearance he makes in AZ from now on (spring training and AZ series)

I think it is hilarious when Diamondbacks fans and media mention this. Does anyone ever call and tell them they should never call them World Series champs because their 2001 team was filled with known PED and steroid guys.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Assuming the list of Biogenesis suspensions comes out today, I really hope the media focuses less on the players themselves, but more on the fact that none of these guys failed a test (except for Braun in 2011). What I'm guessing the players' union is worried about is for these players that are about to be suspended naming names of teammates, opponents, current players they know who have been taking the same stuff that the Biogenesis guys were taking routinely without worrying about failing a test.

 

I think it's true that that almost no big league players take the same stuff that Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Canseco, Sosa and many, many others took during the 90's/early 2000's when there wasn't a testing program in place. Those steroids actually balooned players up and turned them into cartoon characters - they would also fail any of the testing done on players today. I do think that there are still plenty of players taking "the Biogenesis stuff" that are getting it from many other Tony Bosch-type guys.

[fondybrewfan]

Well technically Braun, Colon, Melky, and one other all failed drug tests from the Biogenensis stuff. So assuming 12 more are suspended today that didn't fail a test that makes a success rate of 4/16 or 25%. Not exactly spectacular.

[clancyphile]

100% correct, SRB. MLB's testing is a complete joke and facade. If 10 players are suspended as result of this investigation it will be as many players as have been suspended for failed tests in the last 4 years. That is easy math.

 

Personally, I think that Braun was railroaded into this suspension.

 

Is any player going to go to arbitration after seeing Shyam Das get fired for (correctly) ruling against MLB due to the chain-of-custody issues (which is part and parcel of the science). Will Carroll reported that Braun's legal team were able to replicate the result.

 

Will MLB release its evidence? I need to see it, and it will take more than a screwed-up test to prove Braun guilty in my mind.

[Patrick425]

Will Carroll reported that Braun's legal team were able to replicate the result.

 

I think it's funny how people choose to believe things on twitter, the internet, TV, or whatever media source based on their own personal feelings about this issue. They will believe one source because it's in alignment with what they think, but not another if it conflict with their beliefs. There are only a few facts I know for sure about this situation. Some of these facts are:

 

A) Braun failed a drug test.

B) Braun won his appeal of the failed drug test

C) Braun held a press conference where he pretty much stated that he never took PEDs and that the person who handled his sample did not follow proper procedures

D) Braun has agreed to a 65 game suspension (whether or not he was "railroaded" into agreeing to this suspension is pure speculation - even though some choose to present it as absolute fact)

[Funketown]

E) Braun held a press conference where he admitted to using PED's.

 

Edit: Didn't explicitly admit usage.

[Patrick425]

E) Braun held a press conference where he admitted to using PED's.

 

 

He did? Was this recent? Did I miss it? I saw a statement from him after the suspension was announced where he said something like "he made some mistakes", but I don't remember anything like "I took PED's" ever coming out of his mouth.

[thebruce44]

E) Braun held a press conference where he admitted to using PED's.

 

 

He did? Was this recent? Did I miss it? I saw a statement from him after the suspension was announced where he said something like "he made some mistakes", but I don't remember anything like "I took PED's" ever coming out of his mouth.

 

Yea, I don't remember an admission either.

[thebruce44]

Will Carroll reported that Braun's legal team were able to replicate the result.

 

I think it's funny how people choose to believe things on twitter, the internet, TV, or whatever media source based on their own personal feelings about this issue. They will believe one source because it's in alignment with what they think, but not another if it conflict with their beliefs. There are only a few facts I know for sure about this situation. Some of these facts are:

 

A) Braun failed a drug test.

B) Braun won his appeal of the failed drug test

C) Braun held a press conference where he pretty much stated that he never took PEDs and that the person who handled his sample did not follow proper procedures

D) Braun has agreed to a 65 game suspension (whether or not he was "railroaded" into agreeing to this suspension is pure speculation - even though some choose to present it as absolute fact)

 

Just to expand on the report of Braun's team reproducing results, 1- Carroll is a pretty well respected journalist 2- this was reported by multiple reporters, not just Carroll 3- these results matched what a lot of people with a scientific or technical background figured happened. Otherwise, chain of custody and sample handling on their own are large enough issues to render results inconclusive. In other words, Braun's appeal wasn't overturned on a technicality and thats still the case despite what has happened since...not that it really matters anymore.

[Funketown]

No, that's my mistake -- he never explicitly admitting to PED usage. I'd seen his admission of PED usage referred to in a few articles, but Braun never did explicitly lay it out.

 

I still don't see any other way to interpret his comments as anything other than a usage admission.

[clancyphile]

Will Carroll reported that Braun's legal team were able to replicate the result.

 

I think it's funny how people choose to believe things on twitter, the internet, TV, or whatever media source based on their own personal feelings about this issue. They will believe one source because it's in alignment with what they think, but not another if it conflict with their beliefs. There are only a few facts I know for sure about this situation. Some of these facts are:

 

A) Braun failed a drug test.

B) Braun won his appeal of the failed drug test

C) Braun held a press conference where he pretty much stated that he never took PEDs and that the person who handled his sample did not follow proper procedures

D) Braun has agreed to a 65 game suspension (whether or not he was "railroaded" into agreeing to this suspension is pure speculation - even though some choose to present it as absolute fact)

 

OK, what would be the chance of seeing a suspension overturned in front of a new arbitrator who got his job because the arbitrator who threw out the earlier botched test (and failing to maintain the chain of custody). Maybe Braun used, maybe he didn't, but if Will Carroll is correct. We don't know. MLB never let the Das rulign see the light of day.

 

The violations of procedure and MLB's reaction to the ruling just look bad:

1. The trainer didn't drop the sample off to FedEx right away - and left it in his basement for 44 hours.

 

2. SOMEONE violated the confidentiality of the process in December 2011 with the leak. To date, no punishment has been revealed.

 

3. The arbitrator's ruling that voids the test never sees the light of day. They later change the drug-testing procedures, which sounds like a tacit admission that the procedure was flawed (at least in Braun's case)

 

4. MLB fires the arbitrator that voided the test.

 

5. MLB goes on its current Biogenesis investigation, and Braun then gets suspended for telling his side of the story after he is cleared. The evidence for the 50-game suspension... MLB's not revealing it as of this point.

 

Star chamber justice at its worst. And the added 15 games makes it look even more like a railroading to me. I want PEDs dealt with, but I want a fair process. In other words, if it is supposed to be confidential - it stays confidential. If the procedures are not followed, then the test gets re-done or thrown out.

 

Do I think MLB has a fair process? It's open for debate.

[Patrick425]

Will Carroll reported that Braun's legal team were able to replicate the result.

 

I think it's funny how people choose to believe things on twitter, the internet, TV, or whatever media source based on their own personal feelings about this issue. They will believe one source because it's in alignment with what they think, but not another if it conflict with their beliefs. There are only a few facts I know for sure about this situation. Some of these facts are:

 

A) Braun failed a drug test.

B) Braun won his appeal of the failed drug test

C) Braun held a press conference where he pretty much stated that he never took PEDs and that the person who handled his sample did not follow proper procedures

D) Braun has agreed to a 65 game suspension (whether or not he was "railroaded" into agreeing to this suspension is pure speculation - even though some choose to present it as absolute fact)

 

Just to expand on the report of Braun's team reproducing results, 1- Carroll is a pretty well respected journalist 2- this was reported by multiple reporters, not just Carroll 3- these results matched what a lot of people with a scientific or technical background figured happened. Otherwise, chain of custody and sample handling on their own are large enough issues to render results inconclusive. In other words, Braun's appeal wasn't overturned on a technicality and thats still the case despite what has happened since...not that it really matters anymore.

 

Carroll is a pretty well respected journalist

 

Many people consider Bob Costas and Buster Only respected journalists, but I'm guessing you don't agree with their thoughts about this situation. "Respected" is an opinion of the people respecting them. Respected or not, any information that anyone states regarding what happened during the appeals process, other than words coming directly from MLB, the arbitors, or Braun himself, has to be considered speculation at this point. You can't choose to believe one person who claims to have inside information and not another based on your opinion about their "respectability" (or just because it fits in with your line of thinking).

 

2- this was reported by multiple reporters, not just Carroll

 

Who? Did they report it independantly or did they quote Carroll? Did they report it as fact or speculation?

 

these results matched what a lot of people with a scientific or technical background figured happened. Otherwise, chain of custody and sample handling on their own are large enough issues to render results inconclusive.

 

"figured" being the key work here. And yes, I agree chain of custody is important, and Braun had every right to win his case based on that (if that's how he won it...again, nobody really knows this for sure).

 

Funny how it's ok if Will Carroll leaks information that he somehow got (like to know how he got this information), but if someone else leaks information that is not "Pro-Braun" they are scum.

[turnbow59]

Braun could come flat out and say that he took PEDs and people would still be defending him...Lets say that this was Yadier Molina instead of Braun, would anyone have different opinions?

[dlk9s]

Names are coming out:

 

As we all sit and wait for MLB's official announcement on Alex Rodriguez, the players who have accepted suspensions for their roles in the Biogenesis scandal have begun to leak, including the three names that hadn't yet been leaked.

 

Those unexpected players, as reported by Yahoo's Jeff Passan, are the Mets' Jordany Valdespin, the Phillies' Antonio Bastardo, and the Astros' Sergio Escalona.

 

Fox Sports's Ken Rosenthal reports that those three, as well as Texas's Nelson Cruz, San Diego's Everth Cabrera, and Detroit's Jhonny Peralta will be accepting 50-game suspensions, the same as a failed test under the Joint Drug Agreement.

 

Additional players facing punishment include Seattle's Jesus Montero, the Yankees' Francisco Cervelli, and minor leaguers Cesar Puello (Mets), Fautino De Los Santos (free agent), Fernando Martinez (Yankees), and Jordan Norberto (free agent). All are expected to receive 50-game suspensions.

 

Bartolo Colon, Melky Cabrera, and Yasmani Grandal will not face further punishment, as they have already served 50-game suspensions for failing drug tests. Ryan Braun accepted a 65-game suspension last month. Cesar Carrillo, a minor leaguer whose name appeared in Biogenesis documents, was handed a 100-game suspension and was subsequently released by the Tigers.

 

Washington's Gio Gonzalez and Baltimore's Danny Valencia, despite being mentioned in early Biogenesis reports, have been cleared of wrongdoing by MLB's investigation.

 

The announcements on the suspension lengths of the other players, including Alex Rodriguez, are still forthcoming.

 

http://deadspin.com/the-full-list-of-suspended-biogenesis-clients-1029648603

[Patrick425]

and left it in his basement for 44 hours.

 

Speculation based on reports that you choose to believe. It's somewhat evident that he did not follow the proper procedure, but there are not absolute facts about what the procedural violation was and where the sample was left before it was delivered to Fedex.

 

SOMEONE violated the confidentiality of the process in December 2011 with the leak. To date, no punishment has been revealed.

 

From this statement I'm guessing you are inferring that the leak came from MLB. Again, speculation.

 

Braun then gets suspended for telling his side of the story after he is cleared

 

Again..complete speculation.

[Funketown]

Well that's disappointing news for Orioles fans on Valencia with their stretch-run coming up...

[trwi7]

Lets say that this was Yadier Molina instead of Braun, would anyone have different opinions?

 

No, I still wouldn't give a crap.