Braun Suspended for Remainder of 2013 Season

[Warning Track Power]

I've been a huge Braun fan and still will be when he comes back.

Invader...No dig intended here but I am just curious how any Brewer fan can be a huge Braun fan given how he has handled this entire situation to date?

 

Sure, he can remedy some of this by future actions as you mentioned. However, given that he has lied constantly since November 2011, thrown the franchise into turmoil by being a $20m/year PED user with a 65 game suspension and left his teammates, coaches and front office to answer questions while he runs off without apparently giving them a full explanation as to why he was suspended, I struggle to understand remaining a huge Braun fan today.

[DuWayne Steurer]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOK.

 

It seems that when Braun popped positive, what some people wanted him to do was just say "GUILTY", and forego his right to an appeal, and just serve his suspension. I know it's not a 1 to 1 correlation between sports and a court of law, but why in the world would a guy not appeal, when he has that right?

 

What I DO understand is that people are upset that after the appeal, he didn't just say "Glad it's behind me, we found the flaws in the system, and now we want to move forward"

 

I get that. And I don't disagree that Braun's vehement denial was kind of a douchey move. Be that as it may, I don't understand why there are some (a vocal minority) who think Braun should have just tossed away his right to appeal on the possibility that he might have won on a technicality, which he did in fact do.

[And That]

How responsible was Braun yesterday?

 

Obviously not very, but that doesn't mean we can't have some sort of rationality in the observation of who he is and what he did wrong. His irresponsibility does not dictate that those judging him should do so irresponsibly.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I've been a huge Braun fan and still will be when he comes back.

Invader...No dig intended here but I am just curious how any Brewer fan can be a huge Braun fan given how he has handled this entire situation to date?

 

Sure, he can remedy some of this by future actions as you mentioned. However, given that he has lied constantly since November 2011, thrown the franchise into turmoil by being a $20m/year PED user with a 65 game suspension and left his teammates, coaches and front office to answer questions while he runs off without apparently giving them a full explanation as to why he was suspended, I struggle to understand remaining a huge Braun fan today.

 

 

We don't know what he told the owner, the GM, the manager, and his teammates, and we probably never will.

[Warning Track Power]

We don't know what he told the owner, the GM, the manager, and his teammates, and we probably never will.

Agreed. However, I read a few tweets today (trying to go through my timeline to remember who it was) that stated that Weeks and Lucroy still wanted to know "the truth" and McCalvy tweeted that RR said "if the Union, MLB, legal ramifications allow, Braun should come forward with an explanation."

 

Weeks and Lucroy don't sound like guys who were told anything of substance. I will say that RR's is a little more ambiguous.

[Baldkin]

Invader...No dig intended here but I am just curious how any Brewer fan can be a huge Braun fan given how he has handled this entire situation to date?

 

Easy: I don't care. I want the best players to play their best, and I want them on the field the most. The idea that players have to go to sketchy behind the scenes doctors, instead of being able to get the best medical care to be on the field is amazing.

 

The myth that "Steroids ruined baseball", that MLB (and the media) keep repeating, is amazing to me. I wish more journalists would take the time to learn about the process instead of spouting out the easy stories.

 

MLB Changed the baseball. Now, steroids are being "blamed" for that.

 

Who cares if Ryan Braun lied. If you were told you needed to lie for THREE MILLION DOLLARS, wouldn't you lie?

[dlk9s]

If MLB has any evidence then they should release to the public. They should back up all their talk with facts instead of having BSPN do their talking for them.

 

They can't per the drug agreement with the MLBPA. I believe Braun is now allowed to talk about it in detail, though.

[endaround]

Thank God that Braun was suspended for his violation of some unnamed and unknown part of the Basic Agreement. Otherwise young kids might follow in his footsteps of doing some unknown thing at some point in time! Now we can all cheer the good clean Brewers who represent the great ethics of the game. Like Francisco Rodriquez.

[vegasbrewcrew1993]

If MLB has any evidence then they should release to the public. They should back up all their talk with facts instead of having BSPN do their talking for them.

 

They can't per the drug agreement with the MLBPA. I believe Braun is now allowed to talk about it in detail, though.

 

It would be nice if the public was allowed to see the evidence. That would put the case to rest. Until then everything else is speculation. The only thing that is confirmed is that MLB's test failed. I go by facts and that is a fact. Until MLB shows evidence I am going to believe that he didn't take anything.

[DuWayne Steurer]

We don't know what he told the owner, the GM, the manager, and his teammates, and we probably never will.

Agreed. However, I read a few tweets today (trying to go through my timeline to remember who it was) that stated that Weeks and Lucroy still wanted to know "the truth" and McCalvy tweeted that RR said "if the Union, MLB, legal ramifications allow, Braun should come forward with an explanation."

 

Weeks and Lucroy don't sound like guys who were told anything of substance. I will say that RR's is a little more ambiguous.

 

 

Again, we don't know what Braun is even allowed to say.

 

Also, as far as Braun "sneaking away"...........he's not allowed any contact with the club while he's suspended. What's he supposed to do, stand across I-94 from the stadium and try to look in the windows with binoculars? I get it. People want answers, but we don't know what he is and isn't allowed to say, per whatever back-room agreement he came to with MLB.

[TheCrew07]

 

MLB Changed the baseball. Now, steroids are being "blamed" for that.

 

 

You keep posting that same story, this is at least the 2nd time in the last month, which doesn't connect any of the necessary dots. I don't really want to get into a debate about everything that's wrong with that article and how he connects the "science" dots together, but that whole article is just one person's hypothesis.

 

Some random thoughts from having read it through 3 full times:

 

Certainly a more buoyant core could make the ball travel farther, but how much? Clearly not 33% or we'd be seeing 600 ft HRs like on video games. Why not test cores for all baseball types and not just MLBs? Why not actually set up a controlled experiment where the actual baseballs are hit by a bat at a consistent velocity to measure how far they all travel?

 

What about the other side where players who have used claim to have gained a statistical boost from greater FB velocity or strength?

 

Maybe the whole problem with that "analysis" is that the entire thing is centered around averages instead of spending some time looking at what happened statistically at the extremes? As the extremes move farther apart the average could still be in the middle...

 

The ball may have been juiced, I believe a different manufacturer with a different process likely changed the characteristics of the ball, but that doesn't explain Bonds or Sosa hitting more HRs later into their career or any of the players whom come forward to spill the beans about their increase in production while utilizing PEDs.

 

I'm not willing to dismiss any combination of factors but beating this drum about it all being the baseball is misguided at its best.

[SRB]

Gallardo still adamant that he doesn't think Braun took PEDs.

 

Wow, somebody capable of seeing more nuance in the situation than the anointed baseball "journalists"!

 

I agree that the sensationalizing media can be ridiculous sometimes, but if Yo really believes this, I don't even know what to say anymore.

 

Gallardo then went on to question the moon landing and insisted 9/11 was an inside job.

 

Aren't you a lawyer? How many people sitting in jail right now as a result of plea deals were definitively guilty of the crime they were charged with? MLB was going to lay down the hammer and do whatever they could to suspend him, it sounded like to the point of abrogating the CBA. And I'm guessing the MLBPA wasn't that keen to back him up in a protracted legal battle (for which his legal fees could very well have exceeded the $3M or so he's losing here).

 

Don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to know there's quite a bit of room for doubt left.

 

Personally I honestly could not care less about whether he took PEDs (aside from K-Rod/Gallardo crimes people are mentioning -- people who want Prince back instead of Braun, have you forgotten when Prince tried to storm a clubhouse and beat up a dude?), but his admission here doesn't make me more or less convinced that he took something than the original suspension/acquittal.

 

If MLB has such "overwhelming evidence" they wouldn't do this cloak of dagger crap. Why not just admit what the evidence is? They're leaking everything else to ESPN & co.

 

All we know is that there was some shady list at Biogenesis that Braun's name allegedly appeared on, that MLB was deadset on destroying him, and that he decided to accept a deal that affects him and the team in the most minimal way possible.

 

I will be very interested to see how the A-Rod situation plays out; if MLB isn't able to get any other suspensions to stick, will that change people's thoughts on this?

[thebruce44]

 

You're right that being a Brewer fan, and specifically a Ryan Braun fan, is going to be hard knocks for quite some time, but what makes perpetuating name calling the right course of action? I don't see how referring to him as "Lyin' Ryan" helps the conversation, especially when we don't know what he was (or was not) lying about.

 

It sounds like you are advocating being responsible adults here. I suppose I could get behind that.

 

How responsible was Braun yesterday?

 

Putting out some cryptic statement where he only quasi admits guilt for something, bails out of town without answering a single question, and instead leaves it all for his manager, GM, and teammates to face the fire of all the media questions. How swell of him.

 

I guess we'll find out going forward if Ryan is going to be willing to put himself out there to face the same tough questions which his manager, GM, and teammates had to face yesterday or if instead he'll just refuse to give clear and honest answers to many questions which deserve to be asked of him.

 

He alone is one who can provide some real clarity to everything instead of leaving things mostly up to speculation. What exactly he took. When he started taking what took. How long he took any banned substances. Why he chose to lie so forcefully. Why he thought it was ok to cast doubt on the collector. Until the day comes that he faces the music in an interview where he's truthful and answers many tough questions without a bunch of vague answers, i don't think he has a right at all to complain about any reporting which may have inaccuracies, fans jumping to certain conclusions, or inaccurate speculations. His silence will only be fuel to all of that if or until he chooses to provide the real answers.

 

So you're advocating doing what Braun has done instead? Lie, cheat, ect? Now I'm confused.

[thebruce44]

I've been a huge Braun fan and still will be when he comes back.

Invader...No dig intended here but I am just curious how any Brewer fan can be a huge Braun fan given how he has handled this entire situation to date?

 

Sure, he can remedy some of this by future actions as you mentioned. However, given that he has lied constantly since November 2011, thrown the franchise into turmoil by being a $20m/year PED user with a 65 game suspension and left his teammates, coaches and front office to answer questions while he runs off without apparently giving them a full explanation as to why he was suspended, I struggle to understand remaining a huge Braun fan today.

 

If he continues to put up all star numbers going forward I will be a Braun fan. He will be helping my team win and took his suspension when it would be least detrimental. Whats not to like? That he's a bad guy? I can get past that.

[RockCoCougars]

Has anyone seen the editorial that popped up on the JS today? Are they honestly suggesting that the Brewers eat the rest of Braun's contract to "make the most powerful statement any owner has ever made"? Maybe journalism is dead.

[JJHardy7]

Did Ryan not lie? I guess I'm a bit confused at those comments. I get that we're not sure what he took, etc, but the worst part in this is that he did lie IMO. Could MLB suspend him for PEDs without him taking it? He bet his life that the substance was never in his system...and Rodgers bet his salary he didn't do it...

 

This stinks, but I feel like if this was player X on team A the reaction here would be very different. I think on top of all the great points in this thread...what does this do for Brewers in free agency? Are guys going to want to play with Braun? Are we going to become the Bucks in free agency and have to over pay for guys to come to the team?

[And That]

Did Ryan not lie? I guess I'm a bit confused at those comments. I get that we're not sure what he took, etc, but the worst part in this is that he did lie IMO.

If Braun had never done whatever it was that he got suspended for, I doubt anyone would have much cared if he was a liar.

[SRB]

Has anyone seen the editorial that popped up on the JS today? Are they honestly suggesting that the Brewers eat the rest of Braun's contract to "make the most powerful statement any owner has ever made"? Maybe journalism is dead.

There are Yuniesky Betancourts in every industry.

[RobertR]

I'm remarkably sanguine about the whole thing, but the way the suspension shakes out having Braun suspended in a season that's already lost doesn't really effect me. That's perhaps the selfish way of looking at it, but there it is.

 

Otherwise, I'm disappointed in Braun. I'm also disappointed in MLB for foisting the fiction that "chain of custody" doesn't matter. If there's one thing I have to make abundantly clear to people collecting samples, it's that "chain of custody" matters a lot.

[Funketown]

Has anyone seen the editorial that popped up on the JS today? Are they honestly suggesting that the Brewers eat the rest of Braun's contract to "make the most powerful statement any owner has ever made"? Maybe journalism is dead.

There are Yuniesky Betancourts in every industry.

 

Can we please get back to bashing Yuni round these parts? I miss those days...

[JackNicholson1974]

Aren't you a lawyer? How many people sitting in jail right now as a result of plea deals were definitively guilty of the crime they were charged with? MLB was going to lay down the hammer and do whatever they could to suspend him, it sounded like to the point of abrogating the CBA. And I'm guessing the MLBPA wasn't that keen to back him up in a protracted legal battle (for which his legal fees could very well have exceeded the $3M or so he's losing here).

 

Don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to know there's quite a bit of room for doubt left.

 

Personally I honestly could not care less about whether he took PEDs (aside from K-Rod/Gallardo crimes people are mentioning -- people who want Prince back instead of Braun, have you forgotten when Prince tried to storm a clubhouse and beat up a dude?), but his admission here doesn't make me more or less convinced that he took something than the original suspension/acquittal.

 

If MLB has such "overwhelming evidence" they wouldn't do this cloak of dagger crap. Why not just admit what the evidence is? They're leaking everything else to ESPN & co.

 

All we know is that there was some shady list at Biogenesis that Braun's name allegedly appeared on, that MLB was deadset on destroying him, and that he decided to accept a deal that affects him and the team in the most minimal way possible.

 

I will be very interested to see how the A-Rod situation plays out; if MLB isn't able to get any other suspensions to stick, will that change people's thoughts on this?

 

So are you saying you still believe he didnt take something? If Braun were 100% guilty he would have continued to fight. As an attorney, when my clients are facing a large pile of evidence that shows they are guilty, I recommend we cut a deal to save time, money, expense and most importantly to mitigate their damages. Why would MLB conspire to have him fail a test, only to NOT conspire to have the arbitrator rule against him, and then reconspire to get Braun involved with Biogenesis and then have Braun give into a deal after he fought and won the first time? Time to accept the fact he did this. You know, I know and Yovani Gallardo should know it.

 

EDIT - Also, you can be a juror in one of my cases any time.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Selfishly, I wish the Brewers would use the money saved on the remainder of this season's salary and hold a Hernandez style jersey exchange similar to what the Patriots did. Obviously I'm not comparing the crimes of the two individuals, but I have no desire to wear any Braun gear for the foreseeable future. And as anyone living outside of Milwaukee can attest, non-Braun Brewer jerseys sold in stores are virtually non-existent.

[Greg Vaughn]

Lyin' Ryan

 

Ryan Braun is a member of the group of people who are over 2 years old and have lied. Which includes everybody over 2.

 

It doesn't make it right that he lied (assuming that he lied, and not even knowing what he lied about specifically), but let's get the facts before tacking on witty nicknames.

 

We could easily get the facts if Braun does an interview where he actually came completely clean about what he's done vs putting out cryptic vague statements, so long as baseball agrees to not punish him further for any truths he put out there.

 

Only he knows what exactly he's put into his body, when he started doing so, and how long he kept doing it. Unless baseball were to leak every bit of evidence they have on Ryan and maybe anything he admitted to them, how else are we supposed to get the facts/know what he lied about specifically if he doesn't come clean himself? Just vaguely saying he made mistakes tells us nothing except he's guilty of cheating to some degree, but with zero details.

 

His silence will only lead to speculation, regardless if that speculation is fact based. That's simply the world of sports coverage today.

 

Take this story for what it's worth......I'm from a small town in Montana (Glasgow) and a local boy (I'm close to his brother) was drafted in the 15th Round as a Pitcher for the Tampa Bay Rays in 2007 (Michael Southern) http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=southe001mic .

 

Anyway.....Southern ended up injuring his shoulder and was rehabing in Tampa during the 2008 season and happened to be rehabbing with one of Braun's College teammates. Braun's former teammate (University of Miami) told Southern that Braun was a notorious juicer in college.

 

Keep in mind this story was told to me in 2008 before any of these allegations came to light. Needless to say, chances are Ryan was, is and probably always will be a juicer. I wasn't surprised one bit when the news broke.

[LouisEly]

Big Daddy Drew does it again. I love that Deadspin is the voice of reason in the media.

 

http://deadspin.com/hey-baseball-you-can-stop-overcorrecting-now-883673576

This is spot-on.

 

This is the 100th year of the Tour de France, which is going on right now, and it is making absolutely no headlines. The 100th year. And you hear zilch about it. Squat. Bubkus. The sport, in the US at least, is dead. But was it the actual blood doping or the zealousness with which cycling pursued Lance Armstrong that ruined cycling?

 

Baseball needs to be careful of what they wish for. The zealousness with which they are pursuing this could come back to bite them in the arse big time. When Jan Ullrich admitted to blood doping two months ago it barely made the news. Not because it wasn't news - the guy is a former Tour de France winner - but because no one gives a damn about cycling anymore. Don't you think that most people in cycling right now are thinking, "Why didn't we just let Lance be?"

 

Note: talk about zealousness - in 2006 officials raided Ullrich's house to collect DNA material while he was honeymooning with his new wife.

[Patrick425]

I think it's logical to believe that Braun was a LT PED user. I've heard several statements from people (not necessarily on this site) saying something along the lines of "with so much money at stake I can understand why players take PEDs). Well, if you think about it, Braun had just completed the 2nd year of a 10 year guaranteed contract when he tested positive. If money were the driving force for taking PEDs, it does not seem logical that Braun would be taking PEDs at this point in his career since he was going to get paid handsomely regardless of how he performed for the next 8 years.

 

Now some will say that he took PEDs because, regardless of his contract situation, he wanted to do whatever it took to help the team win. Possibly, but to jeopardize your reputation, your career, and Hall of Fame chances to do this does not make sense to me. What seems more plausible to me is that he had been a LT PED user and that it just became second nature to him. It seems more likely that he was concerned about the performance and health effects of discontinuing the use of PEDs.