Braun Suspended for Remainder of 2013 Season

[BuckyBrewer61]

Well said. Stache, as I said a lot earlier in this thread, I think you are confusing taking roids with taking hgh. It's a different animal. Easier to control (no spike in testosterone) and does not bulk you up. When used like many athletes are doing now, it just keeps you feeling 100%, not giving you the strength to bench a car.

 

I am unsure how the whole "steroids don't make you stronger, they help you recover quicker" notion came from. Testosterone in particular has strong evidence suggesting it does, in fact, increase strength and power:

 

• - In one placebo-controlled, double-blind study of exogenous testosterone, 43 normal men were randomly assigned to one of four groups: strength training exercise with either 600 mg of testosterone enanthate once per week (about six times a replacement dose) or with placebo; or no exercise with either testosterone or placebo [25]. Testosterone treatment increased fat-free mass and muscle strength, both in men who exercised and in men who did not, but more so in those who exercised simultaneously.
  - In a second, double-blind trial of exogenous testosterone, 61 healthy eugonadal men were randomly assigned to one of five groups, each treated with a GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion and one of five weekly doses of testosterone enanthate from 25 to 600 mg [26]. Testosterone administration was associated with a dose-dependent increase in leg press strength and leg power. Improvements in strength and power correlated with serum total testosterone concentrations.

 

The evidence the HGH increases strength is less convincing, FWIW. Strength of course does not equal success in baseball, but I would think it's logical to say that baseball talent < baseball talent + added strength (see: Barry Bonds)

 

Further, while I don't know of any evidence to support this, the argument that steroids help you recover more quickly does not make intuitive sense. Steroids suppress the immune system, which is essential to the healing process. Taking steroids does not aid healing, it impairs it.

[Menace II Sobriety]

I wonder how different the views would be by some on this board if the quarter would have landed on heads instead of tails and they drafted Tulowitzki.

[Patrick425]

Braun admitted (all be it too late) that he made mistakes and he's taking his suspension. Some seem to think that's not enough, without articulating what they want from him. Is he supposed to cut off one of his fingers as an act of contrition or what? Is he supposed to do a sit down interview with Bob Costas to clear the air? Is he supposed to give a tear filled presser and find religion? Let's not pretend some will ever be satisfied with anything he does ever again.

 

No. He's supposed to act a bit more humble when he get's off on a technicality (and let's be realistic..it was a technicality). He's not supposed to throw it back in the faces of MLB and the sample handler at a press conference.

 

Let's not forget that the only person responsible for all the bad press that Braun is now getting is Braun himself. He broke the rules and then, instead of thanking his lucky stars when he wins his appeal, he acts completely indignant. I have no pity or sympathy for him whatsoever.

 

For everyone who still believes he is being unjustly vilified, please watch this again (and yes, I was wrong, it was more like 5-10 minutes and not 15-20 minutes):

 

http://youtu.be/y4yKCVrfzaU

[Outlander]

I will take a guy with Braun's "crime" over a guy with K-Rod's crime everyday of the week.

Absolutely, I am far more angered with K-Rod's actions so to speak than what Braun ever did. Opposite of Patrick425, to me it is more about the crime than the lies as K-Rod's alleged crimes are way worse than Braun's crimes, if there even was a crime at all.

[brewmann04]

He guilty or would have never taken a plea deal. He was going to be the modern day version of the face of the Franchise up there in the Robin Yount category. I really dont mind if they do look to trade him just because of the possible conflict with him not telling his teammates the truth since the start.I really can't see everyone ACCEPTING HIM BACK.

Maybe i am wrong but with his ego i can see this happen again. Again maybe this will all blow over but can't see this resting well with Mark. There is no way they can have him as the face of the franchise anymore and cant see MYSELF cheering for him anymore .

[Patrick425]

I will take a guy with Braun's "crime" over a guy with K-Rod's crime everyday of the week.

Absolutely, I am far more angered with K-Rod's actions so to speak than what Braun ever did. Opposite of Patrick425, to me it is more about the crime than the lies as K-Rod's alleged crimes are way worse than Braun's crimes, if there even was a crime at all.

 

Key word being "alleged". Whether or not you want to believe Krod was guilty the case was dismissed:

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/29/francisco-rodriguez-has-domestic-violence-charges-dismissed/

 

And again, I don't remember Krod holding a press conference professing his complete innocence and throwing his girl friend and/or the D.A. under the bus.

[homer]

I guess lying is a worse crime than DUI.

[Warning Track Power]

Key word being "alleged". Whether or not you want to believe Krod was guilty the case was dismissed:

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/29/francisco-rodriguez-has-domestic-violence-charges-dismissed/

 

And again, I don't remember Krod holding a press conference professing his complete innocence and throwing his girl friend and/or the D.A. under the bus.

@Patrick

 

Let's not forget this previous incident:

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5457861

 

Again, I am furious about Braun's constant lying. The greater point is that in the grand scheme of wrong doing against society, K-Rod-type transgressions and Braun-type transgressions are ENORMOUSLY different.

[fondybrewfan]

Then what about Gallardo. Drving drunk like 2x or 3x over the maximum? He was putting other peoples lives in danger; Braun arguably was really only hurting himself.

 

And comparing ones actions/words in the middle of a criminal case vs a dispute with an employer is hardly a fair comparison.

[brewmann04]

Well don't think we have to wonder if Krod will be here much longer anyway but lying to his teamates and fans and ownership is not going over to well. I would not be shocked to See Mark A tell Doug to see if they can make a move in the offseason.

[LouisEly]

The best thing Braun can probably do right now is to allocate a significant part of his future salaries towards purchasing tickets for charitable organizations and schools. That way he both does some good for the community and gives some of the money back to the team. If he makes $10M next year he will lose about $4.5M to taxes leaving about $5.5M, so if he allocates about $4M for tickets he still nets about $1.5M (can probably deduct tickets given to charitable organizations but probably not schools) and in essence gives back 40% of his salary to the Brewers.

[Patrick425]

I guess lying is a worse crime than DUI.

 

People are saying that we should allow Braun to be human and capable of making mistakes. I would have been perfectly willing to do this, had he come clean when he failed his drug test, or, at the very least, not made the statements he made at his press conference. Gallardo made a bad mistake. Outside of the world of baseball, a worse crime than that committed by Braun. However, he took his punishment and immediately owned his mistake. Stop acting like Braun is the victim here. The victims are all the players who have been playing the game by the rules.

[Warning Track Power]

People are saying that we should allow Braun to be human and capable of making mistakes. I would have been perfectly willing to do this, had he come clean when he failed his drug test, or, at the very least, not made the statements he made at his press conference. Gallardo made a bad mistake. Outside of the world of baseball, a worse crime than that committed by Braun. However, he took his punishment and immediately owned his mistake. Stop acting like Braun is the victim here. The victims are all the players who have been playing the game by the rules.

I am not sure anyone here is saying Braun is a victim. I know I am not. I am saying that the media's reporting of the situation is unfathomable when other players have committed crimes and those players have not been dragged through the mud like Braun is. Taking a step back from the Braun situation and his constant lying and denials; the media is acting like the usage of PEDs in baseball is a greater crime than the committing of a felony. The venom from the media to me on this is reprehensible.

[Patrick425]

The record books have been rewritten!

 

http://www.theonion.com/articles/turns-out-craig-counsell-was-actually-best-basebal,6581/

[Hofbraunhaus]

Here is Lucroy's interview this morning on 1250. You can tell he is really down about this and disappointed in Braun. I also really liked the last thing he said.

 

http://media.sportsradio1250.com/a/78545058/07-23-13-jonathan-lucroy-joins-wickett.htm

[thebruce44]

Braun admitted (all be it too late) that he made mistakes and he's taking his suspension. Some seem to think that's not enough, without articulating what they want from him. Is he supposed to cut off one of his fingers as an act of contrition or what? Is he supposed to do a sit down interview with Bob Costas to clear the air? Is he supposed to give a tear filled presser and find religion? Let's not pretend some will ever be satisfied with anything he does ever again.

 

No. He's supposed to act a bit more humble when he get's off on a technicality (and let's be realistic..it was a technicality).

 

I'm probably going to get destroyed for this right now, but this end result still doesn't make what happened with Braun's test a "technicality." If I test my well water after mixing it with my neighbor's well water and get high levels of nitrates that test doesn't conclude that my well has high levels of nitrates. I may discover later that it actually does, but that doesn't mean that the test was correct.

[Warning Track Power]

http://shop.mlb.com/shop/index.jsp?categoryId=1452356

 

Braun is nowhere to be found on the front page of the Brewers MLB Shop page.

[Flying Dutchman]

Can I just add, Deadspin has been absolutely crushing it with their stories on this. Part of it is they hate everything ESPN does, and part of it is they're just good at putting sports in perspective IMO. I love their exclusive interview with MLB and MLBPA.

[homer]

People are saying that we should allow Braun to be human and capable of making mistakes. I would have been perfectly willing to do this, had he come clean when he failed his drug test, or, at the very least, not made the statements he made at his press conference. Gallardo made a bad mistake. Outside of the world of baseball, a worse crime than that committed by Braun. However, he took his punishment and immediately owned his mistake. Stop acting like Braun is the victim here. The victims are all the players who have been playing the game by the rules.

I am not sure anyone here is saying Braun is a victim. I know I am not. I am saying that the media's reporting of the situation is unfathomable when other players have committed crimes and those players have not been dragged through the mud like Braun is. Taking a step back from the Braun situation and his constant lying and denials; the media is acting like the usage of PEDs in baseball is a greater crime than the committing of a felony. The venom from the media to me on this is reprehensible.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not saying he's a victim at all. He's a liar and a snake. But the attention and outrage this is receiving compared to actual criminal activity demonstrates a ridiculous double standard.

[JimH5]

 

Yeah, I'm not saying he's a victim at all. He's a liar and a snake. But the attention and outrage this is receiving compared to actual criminal activity demonstrates a ridiculous double standard.

 

True, but with big celebrity comes big expectations. If I lie and continue to lie, the impact is limited to me and my family. Braun is a public figure, the most celebrated Brewer since Yount, the most highly paid player in franchise history, and the iconic image of the team. He didn't shy away from any of that.

 

Even though K-Rod and Gallardo's incidents were more criminal, they will pale in comparison to Braun's. It's how we know that Derek Jeter gives gift bags to the women who share his bedroom, but don't know anything about the way other players spend their free time.

 

The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

[brewmann04]

Everything Braun should be removed and I might be alone but If Mark is Ticked off at his actions,it would not suprise me if he is Traded in the off season.

[And That]

Can I just add, Deadspin has been absolutely crushing it with their stories on this. Part of it is they hate everything ESPN does, and part of it is they're just good at putting sports in perspective IMO. I love their exclusive interview with MLB and MLBPA.

 

Here's the interview.

 

Besides the the Tragic Illness blog linked above, the above-linked Deadspin piece is the most relevant thing I've read on the subject.

 

Braun is being lambasted and vilified for... what's been confirmed again?

[owbc]

I don't see any double standard. The sports world has always been very harsh on those who damage the integrity of the game, which is exactly what Braun did by cheating and then lying about it. It's a bigger deal because this is a big scandal with 20+ players and Braun is the highest profile player ever to be suspended. Furthermore, he broke every rule about how to properly handle the accusations and pulled a Lance Armstrong. I don't think you can compare it to a "crime".

 

This situation is a very big deal and it's very bad for Braun and the Brewers. It isn't 1999 anymore. MLB is much cleaner than it used to be and the majority of players, media, and fans want it to stay that way. Some here are trying to rationalize his actions, but I just can't buy that. Braun got exactly what was coming to him and the consequences are appropriate.

 

As for whether the 2011 test was a "technicality" or not...who cares? What really matters is that the test was probably a valid positive.

[FVBrewerFan]

Braun admitted (all be it too late) that he made mistakes and he's taking his suspension. Some seem to think that's not enough, without articulating what they want from him. Is he supposed to cut off one of his fingers as an act of contrition or what? Is he supposed to do a sit down interview with Bob Costas to clear the air? Is he supposed to give a tear filled presser and find religion? Let's not pretend some will ever be satisfied with anything he does ever again.

 

Well, you're right in that some people will never be satisfied no matter what he does or says. But I do think he has the opportunity to win over Brewer fans, teammates, other MLB players, media, etc. Here are a few ideas off the top of my head:

 

1) Hand over MVP award to Kemp.

 

2) Walk through in detail what he took, for how long, why/how he justified it to himself at thetime. Why he now sees it is wrong (if even today he really believes he did something wrong.)

 

3) Press conference taking on all questions, and answering honestly and hearfelt. Funny how when he was claiming innocence he had a public PC. Yesterday he released a generic statement and snuck out of town. That is not lost on people.

 

4) Others have brought this up, but offer a significant amount of future payroll to charity.

 

For those of you who think the deal yesterday has finally put this behind us, you need to understand PR. The fun is only beginning. Unless/until he does some of those items above this won't settle down for a long, long time. Brewer fans really never held Braun close to their hearts like they did with guys like Fielder, Yount, Gorman Thomas, etc. They don't like guys who cheat and then lie amount it. Yes, I understand there is no nuance here, but there isn't any for your blue collar fan, soccer mom, or lots of other fans.

 

Otherwise, the Brewers need to move on without Lyin' Ryan, they may need to regardless of whether he does any of the above.

[And That]

Lyin' Ryan

 

Ryan Braun is a member of the group of people who are over 2 years old and have lied. Which includes everybody over 2.

 

It doesn't make it right that he lied (assuming that he lied, and not even knowing what he lied about specifically), but let's get the facts before tacking on witty nicknames.