Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 2)

[adambr2]

How did our hero decide to give Bill Hall the day off today? He picked his name out of a hat. Literally.

 

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Original Lead:

 

viewtopic.php?t=12043

[TooLiveBrew]

Yost batting Gwynn 2nd makes me want to take back any nice thing I've ever said about Ned. That, and starting him the same day he plays Counsell.

[adambr2]

I don't mind Gwynn batting 2nd THAT much today with Rivera starting, with Kendall starting it's completely stupid and makes no sense, completely defeats the purpose of batting the pitcher 8th.

[Glennron]

A freakin' major league manager decides his lineup on having someone pick numbers out of a hat. Unbelieveable. If he believes neither of them deserve the day off, then why do it? I think he set a quota on Craig Counsell starts back in March and he's falling behind.

[MessiahRp]

How did our hero decide to give Bill Hall the day off today? He picked his name out of a hat. Literally.

I just noticed this myself. That just seems ridiculous. From Yahoo:

 

Apr 27 3B Bill Hall was out of the starting lineup Sunday despite collecting five hits in the previous two games. Manager Ned Yost wanted to give either Hall or 2B Rickie Weeks the day off to let INF Craig Counsell see some action. Yost put the names of Hall and Weeks in a baseball cap and had Hall pick to see who would be out of the lineup. Hall picked his own name, and thus had to sit.

[jazzytrav]

So basically he's admitting that his decisions are completely random? I would think a manager would base their lineup off scouting reports and other things surrounding the game, the ballpark, the opposing pitcher, how well the player has been doing recently, if the player looks tired. Oh no, ours picks his out of a hat. I can't take anymore of this. I want to scream.

[TooLiveBrew]

I can't get too upset about this -- if Ned felt the decision to give either guy a day off (based on scouting, etc.) was basically even, what's the harm?

[jazzytrav]

Because from the way it sounds, it wasn't because he wanted to give one of the guys the day off. He just wanted to give Counsell a start.

 

Manager Ned Yost wanted to give either Hall or 2B Rickie Weeks the day off to let INF Craig Counsell see some action.

 

If they both look gassed and need a day, it's one thing. But to sit a guy just because you want to give a bench player a start? Come on.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ok, good point trav. Deep down I knew Ned could make me upset on this! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

However, I think it's important to remember that those are a reporter's words, not Ned's. If you even change the quip as minutely as from "to let INF Craig Counsell..." to "and let INF Craig Counsell...", it's a huge difference imo.

[tristarscoop]

If it's between Bill's PH/Double Switch Home Run and his five hits in two games vs. Rickie's .199 BA, I don't know how it could have been "even."

[TooLiveBrew]

So the fact that Hall's BA is barely better than Weeks's, yet Rickie's OBP is better just gets ignored, huh?

[tristarscoop]

In this instance, yes. Ned's always about riding the hot bat, so I'm surprised it was even a decision for him.

[endaround]

Of course the dog that didn't bark here was Hardy who has been terrible

 

And of course that was the game Counsell decided to make 3B an adventure

[TooLiveBrew]

In this instance, yes. Ned's always about riding the hot bat, so I'm surprised it was even a decision for him.

I'm sorry, are you saying that somehow Rickie's superior OBP is supposed to be randomly ignored, or that Ned did so (randomly ignored the OBP)?

[tristarscoop]

My point is that Ned tends not to look at season long numbers and instead will go with the guy who is currently "hot." In this instance, it's Bill, so I was surprised that he didn't just automatically go that way. I wasn't actually giving an opinion on either player, just that I was surprised because I think Ned's tendencies would have led him to Bill, not to the two being even.

[Fatter than Joey]

Of course the dog that didn't bark here was Hardy who has been terrible

 

Right. Well -- this should come back to haunt him.

[TheRealMattKain]

Names out of a hat? Someone please tell me this isn't real. This must be a joke, right?

[naivin]

So basically he's admitting that his decisions are completely random?

 

Wow, you read something different than I did. There really isn't nearly as much to this as those who seek reasons to criticize Ned would like to believe. He decided that it was in the interest of the team to get Counsell a start in an effort to keep him somewhat sharp when called upon as a bench player. He and Doug both talk about this all the time whether it is Counsell or anybody else, and how you have to try to get them a start or two on a regular basis. He doesn't really want to sit Weeks or Hall, but knows that he has to get Counsell a start because he needs some AB's. So perhaps the guy who would sit was a random decision, but it is a rather transparent reach to conclude that his decisions are completely random.

 

"Rickie, Bill, I need to get Counsell a start today. Either of you guys want a day off?"

 

"Not me," said Rickie.

 

"Not me," said Bill.

 

"Fine, we'll draw out of a hat then," said Ned.

 

What's the problem?

[jazzytrav]

The problem is that there is no thought put into it whatsoever. What's the point of paying a guy to make a decision if he doesn't even make a decision?

 

And I'm really getting tired of hearing that I'm just seeking reasons to criticize Ned. It's a completely empty argument. I feel that these decisions impact the team much more than others, thus the criticism.

 

Seems to me that if we're paying a guy, he's there to make decisions. The last two conversations in this thread consisted of 1) picking names out of a hat, and 2) discussing whether Ned actually calls baserunning plays. In fact, that conversation consisted of Yost supporters saying that Ned doesn't make the decision for the player to steal. So now I'm getting confused...what does he do exactly?

[endaround]

I'm pretty sure he runs the NASCAR fantasy league

[jason21nl]

the problem is that he is the manager of the team, and is paid to make decisions, not pull his decisions out of a hat. Stop worrying who's feelings you might hurt and start managing.

[naivin]

And I'm really getting tired of hearing that I'm just seeking reasons to criticize Ned. It's a completely empty argument.

Every manager provides legitimate reasons for fans to criticize. The problem around here is that too many people like to critcize just about everything and really minimize those things that legitimately deserve criticism. You want to talk about empty arguments?

So now I'm getting confused...what does he do exactly?

According to many around here, mismanages the bullpen, puts the wrong play on at the wrong time, plays the wrong guys in the wrong spots, plays favorites, does nothing...really anything that someone can point to in order to pin a loss on him. Of course he does all those same things in the games they win, so I guess I'm a bit confused as well. The overwhelming majority of the time, the losses are "on Ned," yet I almost never here anyone say that a win is "on Ned." Strange.

 

the problem is that he is the manager of the team, and is paid to make decisions, not pull his decisions out of a hat. Stop worrying who's feelings you might hurt and start managing.

And other than providing a reason for guys like you to criticize him (which I am sure he is very concerned about), exactly what damage was done, either short- or long-term, by randomly deciding which guy would sit?

 

 

(pared back long quote and combined consecutive posts --1992)

[jason21nl]

well with that reasoning, might as well do that for every game right? might as well not put any thought into anything. Other than the fact that Counsell had 3 balls pop out of his glove, and Hall came in and hit a jack in the first pitch he saw, no damage was done.

 

I'll take Halls bat and D over Counsells bat and D at 3rd any day of the week.

 

bottom line, a manager should make tough decisions like deciding who to start and who to sit down for a game. I'm sure neither Weeks nor Hall wanted to sit that game, otherwise one of them would have stepped up and said they wanted to sit. So Yost pulled a coward move and had them pull a name out of a hat so he didn't have to decide.

 

I can't wait til the day he is fired

[jazzytrav]

According to many around here, mismanages the bullpen, puts the wrong play on at the wrong time, plays the wrong guys in the wrong spots, plays favorites, does nothing...really anything that someone can point to in order to pin a loss on him. Of course he does all those same things in the games they win, so I guess I'm a bit confused as well. The overwhelming majority of the time, the losses are "on Ned," yet I almost never here anyone say that a win is "on Ned." Strange.

I've said this about a million times on this thread alone...it's about probabilities. Ned puts the players at a lower probability of winning than a manager that makes common sense decisions. The reason that no one ever says that a win is "on Ned" could be a way of saying that we're unreasonable, or a way of realizing that Ned is just that bad. He doesn't outmanage other managers. I have yet to see it this year, and I can't remember any examples from last year.

 

Any manager could make a bone-headed decision that ends up being lucky and working, or they could make the more logical decision and have it fail. But that doesn't make the bone-headed decison right and the logical decision wrong. It's my opinion that Ned makes a lot of bone-headed decisions.

[naivin]

well with that reasoning, might as well do that for every game right? might as well not put any thought into anything. The fact that Counsell had 3 balls pop out of his glove, and Hall came in and hit a jack in the first pitch he saw.

Yep. That's what I said.

 

The fact that Counsell had 3 balls pop out of his glove, and Hall came in and hit a jack in the first pitch he saw.

Very nice use of hindsight. What does that have to do with anything? Is Ned now expected to have the ability to peer into a crystal ball and see that Counsell is going to let 3 balls pop out of his glove? Counsell was going to start that game regardless of who sat. I supose now you are going to tell me that giving a bench player a start once in a while is something that is unique to Ned Yost. I'll ask again, what damage was done short or long-term by randomly choosing which guy would sit that game out?