Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 3)

[MickeyDavis]

I have no problem with that. I have a problem with making a change to suffice bandwagon fans.

It's silly for anyone to think a managerial change would be made simply because of the fans. If that were the case Ned would have been out years ago. But it's hardly just the "bandwagon" fans that want him out.

 

[lcbj68c]

I have not given up on Weeks...

So, if Rickie Weeks is hitting .320/.410, Prince drives in more runs in the cleanup spot, Gallardo is healthy and has 6 wins and the bullpen doesnt account for a bunch of losses, this team is closer to 28-20 and we probably aren't having this discussion. Again, is Yost the right guy to lead this team to a Championship? No, probably not. But once, just once, I would like this talent to do what it is supposed to do, so he can have a fair shake.

 

 

(edit: pared back long quote --1992)

[uwisfan]

as you say, the players are not playing up to their potential. They know it, the fans know it, and the fans will also 'let them know it'. If it's a few guys, you can hold them accountable. If it's the entire team, as it has been, then there's probably a bigger problem. So maybe you are correct in that the bullpen was managed correctly and they just cant perform, or that starters werent getting too quick of a hook this year. Maybe the arm injuries are flukes and all the losses should be placed on the guy that couldnt finish his 4th relief inning in 2 games. Maybe the entire lineup is just in a slump and it has nothing to do with Yost or the confidence he has been able to instill. Maybe, but the team as a whole stinks and nobody - fans or players - seem to have confidence in the direction this team is headed.

[BrewCrewForever]

If he hasnt been fired by now its proof that the organization accepts mediocre and in most cases worse play from the team.

I was thinking the same thing, it's like even with all these expectations and talent the Brewers as an organization still except mediocrity.

 

 

(edit: pared back long quote --1992)

[UndraftedFA]

I sure hope the Front Office doesn't make moves based on what the fan base thinks it should do. I live in AZ now, so I haven't been to a game in nearly 2 years. But, I sure hope the fan base isn't as embarrassing in person as it is on the internet. The worst part of this season for me isn't the team, it's seeing how much the fan base has become a bunch of crybabies. Sometimes I feel like like a good number of people haven't followed a single baseball season before.

[MickeyDavis]

The embarrassing thing is 25 years without one playoff game.

 

I was fortunate enough to attend one of the '82 WS games. I hope my son someday gets to do the same thing.

 

ETA: Only one team has gone longer (26 years): Washington/Montreal. The team we just split a series with.

[BrewCrewForever]

I was fortunate enough to attend one of the '82 WS games. I hope my son someday gets to do the same thing.

World Series would be great, I just hope we can get into the playoffs. Even if we lose in the 1st round. I just want to play in October.

 

 

(edit: pared back long quote --1992)

[owbc]

If the fans had their way, the Brewers would have had about 50 different managers since 2000. Every 3 game losing streak would result in a firing.

 

As for attendance at games, it lags a full year behind on-field success. The final home series of the year is nearly sold out already. This year will have high attendance based on last year's success. Next year could suffer if they fall out of the race completely and don't make any interesting moves in the offseason.

[MickeyDavis]

Ticket sales lag by a year. Attendance however will suffer this year if things don't turn around. There will be a lot of no shows for a losing team in August and September. That's a ton of lost revenue for a team that needs every dollar. "Bandwagoners" or not their money is important.

 

Fans aren't looking for a new manager after every 3 game losing streak. But they certainly aren't convinced, after SIX YEARS, that Yost is anything more than an average to below average manager.

 

What's the worst that could happen if we make a move? A 26th straight year without the playoffs. Gee. Ned Yost type managers are dime a dozen.

[Minigoon]

obsessedwithbrewcrew wrote:

As for attendance at games, it lags a full year behind on-field success. The final home series of the year is nearly sold out already.

I agree with your sentiment on attendence for the most part, but remember, the final home series this season is against the cubs.

 

I have tried to remain objective toward Yost and the onfield performance. A manager can affect the onfield performance of the team. There have been a couple of recent situations where calls went against the Brewers, the stolen base attempt in Pittsburgh where the ball popped free of the Pirate's third baseman's glove and Cameron was still called out and the home run call this afternoon. These instances could have been situations where Yost could have stood up for his players, blown a gaskett, kicked some dirt, and fired up the team. Showing he would do what he could to affect what goes on between the lines. Instead, he argued mildly, and walked away. Almost like he didn't want to risk a fine for getting tossed because he was worried about future income.

 

Remember, last season the cubs were floundering early on. On June 2nd, Lou Pinella went crazy, kicking his hat around and getting tossed, and subsequently suspended for 4 games. At that time, the cubs were 22-31. They went 16-8 over the next 24 games leading them into the fateful series in Chicago against the Brewers. This is the series where Ramirez homered off of Cordero.

 

I'm not wishing Yost turns into Pinella, but some emotion when you feel the team is getting the short end of the call can influence the way your team responds and plays.

[Fatter than Joey]

If the fans had their way, the Brewers would have had about 50 different managers since 2000.

 

In all fairness, all of our managers since 2000 have sucked. Also, I think that the fanbase has been incredibly patient with Yost, really the heat has been on Yost for the last year or so.

 

I think it is reasonable for the fanbase to be a bit agitated w/o a playoff berth in 25 years.

[logan82]

Minigoon wrote:

Remember, last season the cubs were floundering early on. On June 2nd, Lou Pinella went crazy, kicking his hat around and getting tossed, and subsequently suspended for 4 games. At that time, the cubs were 22-31. They went 16-8 over the next 24 games leading them into the fateful series in Chicago against the Brewers. This is the series where Ramirez homered off of Cordero.

The Cubs had to much talent to suck all year last year. I am not sure how much Pinella actually affected that.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm not wishing Yost turns into Pinella, but some emotion when you feel the team is getting the short end of the call can influence the way your team responds and plays

 

It can influence players but not always the way you want. if Yost starts to throw tantrums how long before the whole team starts to throw them and blame all the woes of the team on umps, fans, bad luck, ect instead of themselves? Yost always had his players back in a far more important ways than throwing tantrums when things didn't go their way. I wish we could stop comparing ourselves to the Cubs of last season. First of all the Pinella tantrum was probably more a coincidence in timeing than a cause of the turnaround. Second this team is not the Cubs of 07. It is younger, more unproven and more the pitching is more injury riddled than the Cubs of last year.

[jazzytrav]

It can influence players but not always the way you want. if Yost starts to throw tantrums how long before the whole team starts to throw them and blame all the woes of the team on umps, fans, bad luck, ect instead of themselves?

 

I don't think I understand this. The way Yost has handled the media, he basically HAS taught them to blame all their woes on bad luck instead of themselves. He hasn't held one player accountable to the media, unless that player made a mistake that was actually Yost's fault (Kendall after suicide squeeze). That leads to my next point, which is the fact that he never takes the blame for anything. So what exactly is he teaching his players when he throws everyone else under the bus?

 

All I'm saying is that if he held people accountable for what they do, including the players and coaches and HIMSELF, maybe it would actually means something when he yells at an ump.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, I've really gotten the impression from late last season on into 2008 that umpires have a hard time even taking Ned seriously most times. It's almost like everyone knows (including Ned) that Ned's going to storm out, get angry for a bit, and then just walk unceremoniously back to the dugout.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think there is a differance between how someone handles the same media people asking the same questions everyday and what he says to the players behind closed doors professional to porfessional. Every player in that room understands media fodder vs reality. Throwing them under the bus in a visable way amounst reporters in the papers seems to be a poor way of holding players accountable as does throwing tantrums to motivate them. Acting the idiot on the field vs umpires is not in the same category as reporters asking questions. Platooning Bill Hall, demoting Stetter or sending Villy to the pen, seem to me to be very clear examples that he is holding players accountable every way he can in as respectful and meaningful way as possible.

[logan82]

jazzytrav wrote:

The way Yost has handled the media, he basically HAS taught them to blame all their woes on bad luck instead of themselves. He hasn't held one player accountable to the media, unless that player made a mistake that was actually Yost's fault (Kendall after suicide squeeze). That leads to my next point, which is the fact that he never takes the blame for anything. So what exactly is he teaching his players when he throws everyone else under the bus?

I don't undersand why anything in a post game press conference is taken at face value. Yost's job isn't to have press conferences that make fans feel all warm and fuzzy. He is out there to spout dumb cliches and put a positive spin on everything. We really have no idea what happens in the lockerroom and are not likley to find out until Yost is gone.

[tristarscoop]

I don't want a press conference to make me feel warm and fuzzy, but I do feel it's within the right of the public to demand answers. Ned is the manager of a team that is underperforming and not meeting the expectations he himself set forward for the team. Therefore, I think it's completely kosher to question why and for him to have to give answers. To say that he doesn't have to, or that press conferences are nothing, or that it's "the media's" fault runs the same vein as the tired excuses Ned gives. Why shouldn't he be held accountable? Why shouldn't we be able to take what he says with any value? Why is he allowed to get off without ever answering a tough question and we're all just ok with it, because that's Ned?

[jazzytrav]

I think there is a differance between how someone handles the same media people asking the same questions everyday and what he says to the players behind closed doors professional to porfessional. Every player in that room understands media fodder vs reality.

 

Really? That's a pretty bold statement to make about a bunch of young players that Ned himself called "kids".

 

 

Throwing them under the bus in a visable way amounst reporters in the papers seems to be a poor way of holding players accountable as does throwing tantrums to motivate them.

I think we're in agreement here, unless you're claiming that he doesn't throw players under the bus in a visible way.

 

Acting the idiot on the field vs umpires is not in the same category as reporters asking questions.

No, but if you were an umpire and you saw the way he acted in press conferences, would you really take the guy seriously on the field? At this point, I don't think he should even bother arguing anything because it would be worthless. When he has earned some respect, maybe him arguing will actually mean something, but right now it doesn't.

 

I was merely pointing out that, imo, the reason his tantrums are useless is because he's made them useless by his own actions. When someone holds themself accountable for things, it's a natural reaction to listen when they yell at someone else. But when Ned throws everyone else in the line of fire and doesn't take any blame on himself for anything, no one is going to take him seriously. In this case, the media is actually very important. I could care less what he does behind closed doors. If Ned tells Kendall behind closed doors that Ned himself made a mistake on the signs, but then Ned goes to the media and says Kendall screwed up the signs, what does that tell Kendall and the rest of the players?

[TooLiveBrew]

Acting the idiot on the field vs umpires is not in the same category as reporters asking questions

 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to draw a parallel there. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[logan82]

I don't want a press conference to make me feel warm and fuzzy, but I do feel it's within the right of the public to demand answers. Ned is the manager of a team that is underperforming and not meeting the expectations he himself set forward for the team. Therefore, I think it's completely kosher to question why and for him to have to give answers. To say that he doesn't have to, or that press conferences are nothing, or that it's "the media's" fault runs the same vein as the tired excuses Ned gives.

 

 

The public has a right to demand answers, but we don't have a right to get them. I think it would be great to get straight answers out of DM and Yost, but I don't expect them to give them. I don't think it is the media's fault, there is only so much they can do without alienating Yost and DM.

 

 

Why shouldn't we be able to take what he says with any value?

I didn't say no value should be placed in what he says, just that you shouldn't take it at face value.

 

 

Why is he allowed to get off without ever answering a tough question and we're all just ok with it, because that's Ned?

 

I doubt many people are okay with it, just that there isn't much we can do about it. Considering that Melvin is about the same when answering questions, I doubt he has much problem with Yost's press conferences either.

[trwi7]

I doubt many people are okay with it, just that there isn't much we can do about it. Considering that Melvin is about the same when answering questions, I doubt he has much problem with Yost's press conferences either.

 

Melvin answering questions and Yost answering questions is completely different. Most of the time when a GM is asked a question it's about trades, you obviously don't want him showing his hand on what he's going to do. Yost on the other hand is asked about in-game strategy and continues to dodge questions posed by reporters when asked.

[MickeyDavis]

And it's not like the Milwaukee media is brutal. You have the JS guys and the two sports radio stations throwing up 99% softballs to Ned. You would think the 1% of the time he's asked a tough question he could actually answer it.

[logan82]

trwi7 wrote:

Melvin answering questions and Yost answering questions is completely different. Most of the time when a GM is asked a question it's about trades, you obviously don't want him showing his hand on what he's going to do. Yost on the other hand is asked about in-game strategy and continues to dodge questions posed by reporters when asked.

Ned doesn't have to explain his reasoning behind in game moves to anybody except DM or Mark A. Does it make for good PR with fans? Probably not. Does it help him by not revealing his strategy to other managers? Maybe, even though I doubt it. The point is that there is nothing to be gained by answering questions truthfully other than making fans feel better. People have the right to expect straight answers, but not the right to receive them.

[endaround]

Sorry a large part of Ned's job is answering the questions of the media and explaining himself. If he doesn't want to do it, he can get a bench coaching gig somewhere.