Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 3)

[adambr2]

The logic was that Yost wanted Shouse to pitch the seventh inning and wanted to avoid having his spot in the order coming up. Hart was the guy who had the last at bat.

So we took Hart out of the game in the 6th inning because we didn't want Shouse to get 1 AB or have to sub him out of the game? Sounds like Yost logic to me. Not good logic, mind you, but Yost logic.

 

[gbpacker40]

Shouse or Gwynn?? Hmmmm......I might take Shouse in that case. I understand the last batter thing, if it wasnt our most consistent hitter. Taking Hart out and putting Gwynn in when we are behind is just dumb, regardless of the situation. Ill take Hart with one arm hitting before I take Gwynn. And like the early part of this post says, I may just take Shouse over Gwynn as well.

[naivin]

The logic was that Yost wanted Shouse to pitch the seventh inning and wanted to avoid having his spot in the order coming up. Hart was the guy who had the last at bat.

This is correct. Its perfectly logical, and its pretty much covered on the first day of Double Switch 101.

 

If you want to argue he should have simply PH when the pitcher's spot came up instead of the double switch, that's something else, but then you would have to use 2 pitchers to get through 1.1 innings as opposed to just one (theoretically anyway). I wounder if anyone would have criticized Yost for using too many pitchers in a 5-1 game? Nah.

[Never Outhustled]

This is correct. Its perfectly logical, and its pretty much covered on the first day of Double Switch 101.

Thers absolutly no logic to it at all. Why burn shouse out down 4. let him get out of the inning, then pull him so he's available today. Dillard easily could have went 2 innings. Its misusing the bullpen and wasting Hart all at once.

 

Its simply another example of why Yost has been a massive loser his entire managing career, at both the minor and major league levels.

[Fatter than Joey]

I love that he was open to & has been committed to batting Kendall 9th.

 

Yost reminds me of a fat guy at the salad bar in this instance.

 

The fat guy decides he needs to lose weight, (which is a good idea), however the fat guy subsequently falls into the trap of thinking every thing on the salad bar is calorie free and tops off his 9 lb salad with pickled herring and 2 lbs of shredded cheese.

 

I think it was nice to see Yost thinking out of the box, by moving the Kendall to the 9th spot -- I agree, -- however, batting the CF 2nd just because they were playing in Cameron's spot negates any wisdom in batting the pitcher 8th.

 

I honestly don't believe a change in the Crew's management mid-season will make any difference, but, come October, if the Brewers aren't involved in the postseason, IMO Yost is toast.

 

As vocal as I am about the Nedster, I really do not want to see him fired mid-season unless the Brewers are hopelessly in the toilet.

[giffted1]

Thers absolutly no logic to it at all. Why burn shouse out down 4. let him get out of the inning, then pull him so he's available today. Dillard easily could have went 2 innings. Its misusing the bullpen and wasting Hart all at once.

I don't think its possible to burn Shouse out. Dude's got a rubber arm.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yost reminds me of a fat guy at the salad bar in this instance.

 

You're right that batting Gwynn 2nd was mind-boggling, but Gross there wasn't a terrible idea at all. Lack of flexibility by Yost? Sure. Cause to cancel out the good done by being willing to try out batting Kendall 9th? No.

 

It may not be the norm for the anti-Yost crowd, but I try to find the good contributions Ned makes even though I think he's overall the wrong choice at manager. Batting Kendall 9th this season (imho) has been a very savvy move by Ned & Co.

[logan82]

X ellence wrote:

Its simply another example of why Yost has been a massive loser his entire managing career, at both the minor and major league levels.

You are probably right. It has nothing to do with managing really crappy teams.

[TooLiveBrew]

Not to mention that W-L records in the minors are 100% meaningless.

[adambr2]

X ellence wrote:

Its simply another example of why Yost has been a massive loser his entire managing career, at both the minor and major league levels.

You are probably right. It has nothing to do with managing really crappy teams.

Well, he doesn't have a really crappy team now, and he didn't last year, either. And he's got a payroll around the league average, far exceeding what we ever thought possible 5 years ago.

 

At some point, he's out of excuses.

 

[joeyhepatitis]

This is correct. Its perfectly logical, and its pretty much covered on the first day of Double Switch 101.

 

If you want to argue he should have simply PH when the pitcher's spot came up instead of the double switch, that's something else, but then you would have to use 2 pitchers to get through 1.1 innings as opposed to just one (theoretically anyway). I wounder if anyone would have criticized Yost for using too many pitchers in a 5-1 game? Nah.

It's not perfectly logical to remove your most consistent hitter in the 6th inning unless you've given up the game 2/3rds of the way through and want to save your bullpen that didn't have to pitch the previous day at all because Sheets went 9. The Brewers are more than capable of scoring 4 runs against the Nationals and were getting people on base all game so I don't see why there should be any reason to throw up on the white flag in the 6th.

Variables and strategic thinking probably aren't brought up in introductory level courses like Double Switch 101 so it doesn't surprise me that Yost continues to manage without any consideration to the situation. It's not like having Defelice getting up and sitting down and warming up for 20 minutes without having him come into the game is harmless either. He had a pitcher ready for the 7th who could go multiple innings, I don't see the logic in taking your best players out of the game in the 6th. It's a cardinal sin of over-managing.

[logan82]

adambr2 wrote:

Well, he doesn't have a really crappy team now, and he didn't last year, either. And he's got a payroll around the league average, far exceeding what we ever thought possible 5 years ago.

At some point, he's out of excuses.

 

Who's offering excuses? People are trying to use W/L records to point to Yost being a bad manager. The W/L record has way more to do with actual talent on the team than anything a manager does. Payroll shouldn't factor in at all when judging talent. There are to many variables that have nothing to do with talent.

 

As far as how this team is currently dong when compared to expectations, it is just to early to look at how good this team is. There is no way Hall, Weeks and other keep performing at these ridiculously low levels. If there are specific things you think Yost does poorly, I have no problem with that. W/L records for managers show nothing except whether or not they were smart enough to take a job with a good team.

[BrewCrewForever]

If we don't come back and win today and also lose tomorrow that makes a 3-7 road trip. I would have to think and hope that would be grounds to relieve Ned of his duties.

[trwi7]

Ned just continues to amaze me with his stupidity. How do you not walk Lopez there to create a forceout at every base? I can't stand Yost. And I doubt anybody in the media will challenge him on that. They're idiots too.

[BrewCrewForever]

Maybe win or loss tomorrow he goes and we get a new Manager Tuesday. I can only dream I guess.

[MickeyDavis]

I can't see how the brass can justify not making a move regardless of tomorrow's game. 3-7 or 4-6, still blows.

 

But I'm sure we will hear all about the big "comeback" today instead.

[endaround]

Ned just continues to amaze me with his stupidity. How do you not walk Lopez there to create a forceout at every base? I can't stand Yost. And I doubt anybody in the media will challenge him on that. They're idiots too.

You don't do it in order to give your pitcher leeway. You don't want to force him to throw strikes. That said can't believe that Mota was left in for Young.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Yes, or that Mota was asked to go multiple innings... the DAY AFTER he went multiple innings. Honestly, just make the change at this point. Even if it only ends up being a neutral move, it's time to try something new. Yost's mistakes tend to be repeated almost as much as his excuses.

[adambr2]

Yost looked beaten in the post-game interview today. I can't imagine he's sleeping well these days. He really looks like he knows he's just hanging on by a thread.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I actually get why they didn't walk him to load the bases...if they were worried about Mota being wild or walking in a run...but then why even have him out there?

[Brewer Fever]

"You have to come to the park every day ready to give everything you've got, but you have to do it in a relaxed fashion," Yost said. "Right now, they're all a bunch of young kids that really want to win, and they give everything they have when they step on the field."

They're flippin veterans, Yost. Quit calling them kids and treating them likewise and maybe they'll stop playing like kids. They should be playing like major leaguers by now. The learning curve with this baffoon at the helm appears to be approximately 10 major league seasons. That works real well for a franchise that has no choice but to develop from within.

[bklynbrewcrew]

That is how I see this organization at this point. This team is continuing to regress in every way possible yet nobody is held accountable and there is a complete lack of urgency about this season. Yost has different lame excuses for each loss (the other team played well, we battled and its still early too name a few). When we lost last saturday to boston because of four errors Yost made comments about how the Sox made erors as well and they are world champs. How will players ever feel accountable for losing when the manager is constantly in spin mode and always making excuses for there poor play.

 

How can players ever feel a sense of urgency when the manager is constantly referring to them as "kids". This is not little league its the major leagues and although many of our players are young they certainly arent kids and shouldnt be treated as such. Major league players dont need to be coddled after every error and poor at bat. How can players ever respect a manager that is constantly making excuses for losing. Losing is just way too acceptable with this team and that needs to end if we are ever going to compete for the playoffs on a consistent basis.

 

Another sign of the lack of urgency with this team and its losing mentality was when we didnt finish off the sweep in Pittsburgh. Instead of being angry that we lost a winnable game against a bad team all the player quotes focused on "at least we won 2 out of 3" and we usually play worse in pittsburgh so we should be happy taking 2 of 3. Im sorry but that is just a losers mentality. These players seem way too content playing mediocre baseball and worse. Other than Ryan Braun getting upset and saying he was sick and tired of hearing its early what other players are truly angry about how we have played this season. Seems to me as if these guys are content cashing their paychecks and playing out the string win or lose.

 

There also seems to be no joy with this team. Usually with young teams there is an enthusiastic atmosphere and that just doesnt appear to be the case with this team. They are playing like the game is a chore and not a joy to be playing. Looks to me as if there is a very tight atmosphere around the team and the players are just going through the motions.

 

If things are to change with this team the whole attitude around the team must change. Obviously the players have tuned out Yost and the only way to change the attitude of the players and end the atmosphere where losing is acceptable is to change managers and maybe the GM as well. Losing is way too acceptable for this organization and that must change immediately.

[bucks2281]

"Right now, they're all a bunch of young kids that really want to win, and they give everything they have when they step on the field."

 

Sorry, Nedster, but that's not enough. I don't pay my hard-earned cash for season-tickets to watch a bunch of "kids" who try their best. I don't know how Yost's choice of words (calling his players "kids") and his general message can be acceptable to anybody.

[Brewer Fever]

I agree with much of what you said. Only I've made many of these same arguments in the Yost thread and the vent thread.

[MickeyDavis]

I agree. The "everything will be fine, we are just a young, scrappy team who has to take their lumps from time to time" is getting old. Very old.

 

I'll keep an eye on Badgerblog and see if anything is up with a manager change. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif