Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 3)

[BrewCrewForever]

Here's a different question - assuming he's as good as gone sometime in the near future, what do you think it would take for DM NOT to replace him? Short winning streak? Players like Weeks and Hall to start hitting? A few quality starts in a row? 8 of 10 wins? Other? For example, if they go in and sweep the Pirates, does that take the heat off? Would they need to sweep two series in a row?

The sad thing is if they go and take 4 or 5 out of these next 7 road games Doug and Mark will probably not make a move. They will think things are okay and turning around. But then not soon far down the road we will go on another 5 or more game losing streak and they still won't do anything then we will win a few and the beat will continue to go on. Just when it looks like Yost has lost his job, he wins some games and it calms people. Well I'm sick of that. Just get it over with, quick like a band aid, RIGHT OFF!

 

[MoneyballMan]

quick like a band aid, RIGHT OFF

 

.... Or like getting Ted's zipper unstuck in "There's Something About Mary".... We've Got A Bleeder!!

[Teatoe993]

Just cut the chord already. It's not like any progress is being made by waiting it out. Throw in Kremblas or Simmons to see what happens. If it doesn't work out, what did we have to lose anyway? There will be a greater number of individuals looking for a manager's job in the offseason that we can hire if needed.

[MickeyDavis]

If it doesn't work out, what did we have to lose anyway?

We might end up in last place.

[Greg Vaughn]

The thing that is bothering me with this whole "NED" ordeal, is how reactive the club is going about things. I don't care if we win 80% of our series the rest of the way....that doesn't hide the fact that Yost is a bad manager.

 

I don't know why we have to sit around and wait for some magic number of loses....which will then trigger the dismissal of Yost. Show a little vision and dismiss the guy because it's obvious (to the vast majority of baseball minded individuals) he is hindering the cause.

 

If we sweep the Pirates tonight, how many weeks does that buy ol' Neddly?

 

Just drop the hammer already.

[jeffy]

If we sweep the Pirates tonight, how many weeks does that buy ol' Neddly?

a minimum of 2, to June 9...at least that is what TH tells me, that a blogger told him, that a source told him, but I have not been able to independently confirm this. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Invader3K]

Show a little vision and dismiss the guy because it's obvious (to the vast majority of baseball minded individuals) he is hindering the cause.

I would say Gallardo's injury, Gagne and Turnbow's combined lack of effectiveness, and also a lack of production from certain guys like Fielder and Weeks are much more "hindering the cause" than anything Yost is doing.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I'm kind of neutral on Yost in general, but I agree with Invader.

 

I thought there was a very reasonable argument by the anti-Yost crowd last year. He managed the pen poorly and made a few strange decisions down the stretch. This year I can't really point to anything that Yost has done that I really questioned. I'd even say he's learned from last year. His pen management has been better. I thought he showed a quicker hook on some guys like T-bow when he was struggling that he didn't do last year. They have been aggressive on the basepaths which overall has helped. It's really been more about injuries and performance.

 

The negative argument has shifted in a sense from last years concrete examples of mis-management to a "softer" argument of 1) they aren't performing and someone has to take the blame 2) Ned's personality rubs people the wrong way or 3) I didn't like Yost last year and with the Brewers not hitting expectations, I still don't like him.

 

It was easier for me to see the anti-Yost case last year versus this year. If at year end it becomes evident that Yost isn't the right fit for the club, then make a move. Until then I just don't see how the current struggles are Yost's fault.

[BrewCrewForever]

John Donovan has an article up on SI.com about Yost and how we the fans love to hate him. Link

[Thurston Fluff]

If at year end it becomes evident that Yost isn't the right fit for the club, then make a move. Until then I just don't see how the current struggles are Yost's fault.

 

As big a supporter as I am of Yost I agree. He has to at least have a winning record. I would have had higher expectations than that if YoGa hadn't been hurt.

One thing that so often gets overlooked and why I think Ned has always been loyal to a fault with his players is how the Hall situation is starting toplay out. He's not good against right ahnded hitters and Ned has a legitimate reason to make some changes. Had Ned always had a quick trigger or not been loyal to guys who have done what he asked of them this situation could get ugly quick. Hall ahs been the model team player changing positions doing what was asked of him year in and year out. Had Ned's history been anything other than one who covered his guys back Hall would have a lot more influence with other players if he chose to be vocal about his less regular play. As it stands players have no option but to blame themselves since he gives them far more lattitude than most managers would to get themselves right.

[TooLiveBrew]

The negative argument has shifted in a sense from last years concrete examples of mis-management to a "softer" argument of 1) they aren't performing and someone has to take the blame 2) Ned's personality rubs people the wrong way or 3) I didn't like Yost last year and with the Brewers not hitting expectations, I still don't like him.

 

Great points here, SoCal BCF. I side most closely with #3, but I don't think the Brewers not hitting to expectations is all that valid. I dislike Yost's style as a manager, aside from his decent avoidance of small ball... though at this point, I'd imagine there are a lot more managerial candidates of like-mind (or better) in that regard than there were when Ned was hired.

 

The manager job in MLB is equal to being the lightning rod for the club, whether that means undue or due praise/criticism. It comes with the territory. Ned has certainly experienced both ends of that spectrum, I think.

 

I love that he was open to & has been committed to batting Kendall 9th. He appears to be a bit more proactive with RPs, but many of his familiar warts remain. To me it doesn't come down to whether or not he's bad/good, but moreso whether or not he's the best option for the club at Mgr. I still believe he isn't, even though I think he's made some nice moves/decisions this season.

[jazzytrav]

It's not his fault, of course, that the Brewers have maybe three hitters and three pitchers who are meeting expectations. You really can't pin the team's sinking slugging percentage -- it was .456 last season, and .401 this season -- on Yost. You can't blame him for Yovani Gallardo's season-ending knee injury.

Here's my problem with the article BCin04 posted. Yeah, I get it that Gallardo's injury wasn't Yost's fault.

 

But look at the rest of this quote. It's not his fault that hitters and pitchers aren't meeting expectations? How do you figure? I'm not about to say that it's ALL his fault, but what the hell is the point of the manager if he has no control over such things? The fact that Fielder isn't hitting well is not Ned Yost's fault. Of course. It's Prince's fault, along with Ned, Skaalen, and anyone else that works with Prince and coaches him. Fine, don't blame him for everything. I understand that. But don't completely remove him from blame just because the players aren't performing, because he's part of that.

[bigredrobbo]

I'm kind of neutral on Yost in general, but I agree with Invader.

 

I thought there was a very reasonable argument by the anti-Yost crowd last year. He managed the pen poorly and made a few strange decisions down the stretch. This year I can't really point to anything that Yost has done that I really questioned. I'd even say he's learned from last year. His pen management has been better. I thought he showed a quicker hook on some guys like T-bow when he was struggling that he didn't do last year. They have been aggressive on the basepaths which overall has helped. It's really been more about injuries and performance.

 

The negative argument has shifted in a sense from last years concrete examples of mis-management to a "softer" argument of 1) they aren't performing and someone has to take the blame 2) Ned's personality rubs people the wrong way or 3) I didn't like Yost last year and with the Brewers not hitting expectations, I still don't like him.

 

It was easier for me to see the anti-Yost case last year versus this year. If at year end it becomes evident that Yost isn't the right fit for the club, then make a move. Until then I just don't see how the current struggles are Yost's fault.

 

This is one of the best posts ever on this site - great job, bud. I agree 100%. It's a telling development that the supposed managerial genius that is Piniella has a sizeable and growing vocal element in Cubland that has started to question some of the moves he makes. Moves that, we were told, really good managers don't make.

 

I honestly don't believe a change in the Crew's management mid-season will make any difference, but, come October, if the Brewers aren't involved in the postseason, IMO Yost is toast.

[Greg Vaughn]

SoCal Brew Crew Fan wrote:

 

I thought there was a very reasonable argument by the anti-Yost crowd last year. He managed the pen poorly and made a few strange decisions down the stretch. This year I can't really point to anything that Yost has done that I really questioned. I'd even say he's learned from last year. His pen management has been better. I thought he showed a quicker hook on some guys like T-bow when he was struggling that he didn't do last year. They have been aggressive on the basepaths which overall has helped. It's really been more about injuries and performance.

Nice post and good points.

 

I STRONGLY DISAGREE with "statheads" (not implying you socal) and the role a major league manager influences the W/L record. Not everything can be measured statistically. If that's the case...one day in the future we will have Robots managing the game.

 

Yost is a bad in game manager and, I believe, a horrible motivator/psychologist. The managers/coaches job is to get the most out of your talent....day in and day out......Yost doesn't do that.

 

Those who think everything about managing/coaching is X's & O's have probably never coached or managed a game outside of kick-ball in their life. He needs to go...it's called bad karma. He's a loser, plain and simple.

[1992casey]

I think it's perfectly valid to evaluate a manager based on motivational skills, clubhouse atmosphere, team chemistry, etc. Of course, we, as fans, aren't in a good position to do this.

 

Stats become necessary when people say that the manager has single-handedly lost X number of games. That "X" is often exaggerated. Stats help us to be more realistic.

[logan82]

Greg Vaughn wrote:

He's a loser, plain and simple.

Of course he is. He managed some of the worst teams, talent wise, in Brewers history. Ben Sheets was also a "loser" up until earlier this year.

[bigredrobbo]

The thing that is bothering me with this whole "NED" ordeal, is how reactive the club is going about things. I don't care if we win 80% of our series the rest of the way....that doesn't hide the fact that Yost is a bad manager.

 

I don't know why we have to sit around and wait for some magic number of loses....which will then trigger the dismissal of Yost. Show a little vision and dismiss the guy because it's obvious (to the vast majority of baseball minded individuals) he is hindering the cause.

 

If we sweep the Pirates tonight, how many weeks does that buy ol' Neddly?

 

Just drop the hammer already.

 

Let's get one thing straight. Regardless of every other argument the above statement is wrong. Ned being a "bad manager" is not fact, it's opinion. That it is many people on Brewerfan.net's opinion doesn't make it any nearer to fact.

[adambr2]

Cue Yost making excuses for Hardy and talking about how sure-handed he normally is rather than showing any dismay at our defense costing us a game yet again.

[Diskono]

I think Ned must have seen an angel rubbing Tony Gwynn's shoulders tonight.

 

And Seth McClung used to be Mel Clark.

[kiwi brewer]

I think Ned must have seen an angel rubbing Tony Gwynn's shoulders tonight.

 

And Seth McClung used to be Mel Clark.

hopefully it wasn't travolta from "Michael." that would be too creepy, but i wouldn't doubt if that's what he saw. maybe all of that Starbucks is making him hallucinate? if so, i'm heading to SBucks right now.

oh and i like the Fulham pic. Come On Fulham!!!

 

 

 

 

[bklynbrewcrew]

Double switching out Hart in favor of Gwynn is a move only ned could make. Please put us out of our misery and fire the dope.

[sheethead]

This team has become the manager... incompetent.

[Postseason2006]

I am still scratching my head on removing your best hitter right now...2 homers on the road trip. What was with that move to double switch with Hart. Can any of the people who like Yost give me any logic for that one?

[kiwi brewer]

I am still scratching my head on removing your best hitter right now...2 homers on the road trip. What was with that move to double switch with Hart. Can any of the people who like Yost give me any logic for that one?

yes, please. some logic? especially considering Gwynn made the last out with two on, as well?

 

[1992casey]

The logic was that Yost wanted Shouse to pitch the seventh inning and wanted to avoid having his spot in the order coming up. Hart was the guy who had the last at bat.