Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 3)

[TooLiveBrew]

Instead sit back and watch another tick be added to the loss column you stubborn piece.

 

There it is, Ned in a nutshell. Strategy, winning... everything is less important than what Ned wants to see happen!

 

Let me be the second to welcome you to the dark side.

 

http://www.myclassiclyrics.com/images2/darth_vader.jpg

 

You do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.

[dlk9s]

He has been great in the limited time he has pitched lately. Part of the reason for that is the limited number of batters he has faced in his last 5 outings. 7 innning in 5 outings appears to me to be a sign that Ned is limiting his exposure until he's certain Villy is back to where he should be. Locating all his pitches when he wants in any count like he has in the past when he was effective.

He has faced a limited number of batters because he's come out of the bullpen. As you said, he has been great, and he was fantastic in the 7th last night. Thus, there's no reason to take him out for the 8th. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Coors is not the place to tempt fate when there are other options to go to.

Switching to a mediocre pitcher from a guy who is kicking butt is tempting fate. The logical thing is to stick with the guy who is rolling.

 

Especially when two of his four pitches are not going to do what he wants them to.

You don't know this will happen. And again, Villy was tremendous in the 7th, so he was obviously doing something right.

 

As far as his changeing speeds go you are right. However his mediocre fastball and change are not going to be as effective without his curve and slider mixed in. Villy needs to have all his pitches working to be effective since none of them are spectacular on their own. Way easier to sit on an 88 MPH fastball when the only other option he has is a changeup that good hitter will foul off.

Villy's changeup is actually pretty spectacular. The changeup is the off-speed pitch that typically works well at Coors. And again, he was obviously doing something right to dominate the way he did.

 

If Villy went out and blew chuncks I have no doubt others would have been saying the same thing about the game being Yosted. Probably for all the reasons I have for why it was a good move regardless of how it turned out.

I guarantee that only a small fraction of Brewers fans would have blamed Yost if Villy struggled in the 8th, unless Yost waited to long to get him out of there (as he did with Mota). I hate to keep harping on it, but it made zero sense whatsoever to removed Villy after one inning. He threw 10 pitches. He struck out two guys. He dominated. We all know he felt good and he fully expected to pitch the 8th. It wasn't a matchup decision. It was a stupid statistic decision.

[NeedMoreFans]

I think we are stuck with Yost for the rest of the year after that home stand.

I was thinking about how they went 8-1 at home, but couldn't pull it out last night. I'm wondering if the reason for the success at home during that stretch was because Yost didn't have to make a lot of the decisions that may have an impact on the outcome of the game. Yeah, there were some close games, but there were also a lot of blow outs and non-save situations. Also, if I remember correctly, a lot of the close games were decided in the 7th or 8th, and the set-up was sort of a non-factor. Also, the starters went deep into games in 7 games or so, so that reduced the amount of bullpen management Yost could have done.

 

Last nights game bothers me on so many fronts. First off, I don't understand why the team's best centerfielder wasn't in the game in the later innings. Cameron is a gold glove winner. I remember last year (and a couple times this year) Yost pulled Braun for a "better" defender late in games. Why wasn't that done last night? I think Cameron gets the first ball, and has a chance at the second. Also, I think I may have a video game mentality when it comes to the use of a pitching staff, but I believe in using as few pitchers in a game as possible. Villy can be a starter, and we've all seen that. So I was sort of under the assumption that when he moved to the bullpen, he'd be a multi-inning guy. Why couldn't he pitch 2 innings and then hand it to the closer? Last night also proves to me that the roles bullpen guys have are meaningless. I hate the closer, and the set-up guy. I believe anyone should be able to come in at any time.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

This is why the Save stat needs to die. Good grief. I couldn't believe that quote.

And ultimately, this thing is a much larger problem than just our manager. "7th inning guy" and "8th inning guy" are now concepts that have currency for just about all baseball people, and the MSM certainly is on board. It is a mental illness sweeping like the plague through all of baseball. I do agree with the sentiment that, even absent any other justification, the "save situation" quote alone is enough to warrant a firing. My problem is that whoever they replace Yost with will almost certainly behave the same way, even if he's smart enough not to talk about what he might have done differently it had been a 4 run lead. Certainly the interim guy would be the same. The only way you avoid naming a permanent replacement that handles his bullpen just about exactly the same way is by making your first interview question this:

 

DM: (shows the candidate Yost's quote)

Ash: "We fired our previous manager because of this statement. Why do you think we fired him?"

DM: "Answer carefully, if we don't like your answer this interview is over."

 

Try as I might, I just can't envision this scene.

 

For those curious, the difference in win probability between a 3 and a 4 run lead in the bottom of the 8th inning is minuscule. The trailing team will come back from 3 runs down 7.4% of the time vs. 4.5% of the time when down 4 runs. Ned's insipid "save situation" crap is basically the same as when a rookie hold 'em player calls a big raise with Jack - Deuce, and when you try to explain to him that that wasn't so smart, his objection is "but they were suited!" Ned has suppposedly read The Book, so it's not like he shouldn't be aware of this. Actually, that makes the rookie hold 'em player analogy invalid. Ned's like a guy who has read both Super Systems books, but somehow still plays Jack - Deuce everty time, just so long as his cards are suited.

[rluzinski]

It is a mental illness sweeping like the plague through all of baseball.

 

And that's really the problem. We can get the pitchforks out and run Yost out of his current position but there's little chance that the next manager wouldn't make the same mistakes. What we are sick of is managers using "The Book" as a crutch to justify not even trying to think for themselves.

[1992casey]

I have been a staunch defender of Ned's when I feel he is unfairly blamed for poor team performance...

 

I'm in the "nay to Yost" camp, but I'll certainly defend him when I think criticism is unwarranted. I can't say I'm going to be staunch, though.

 

What we are sick of is managers using "The Book" as a crutch to justify not even trying to think for themselves.

 

I'd like to have a manager who tries stuff in that other The Book, but unfortunately, I don't think we're at a point where Melvin, or any GM for that matter, is going to go out and look for one.

[logan82]

rluzinski wrote:

And that's really the problem. We can get the pitchforks out and run Yost out of his current position but there's little chance that the next manager wouldn't make the same mistakes. What we are sick of is managers using "The Book" as a crutch to justify not even trying to think for themselves.

I wish our manager or any manager we have would use "The Book," but not necessarily the unwritten book. Casey beat me to it.

 

I think we would have to hire a different GM to get a much different strategy out of our manager. I think that any manager hired by Melvin is going to be pretty similar to Yost.

 

[FidoMcCokefiend]

I'm still reeling over the save situation comment. Does Ned think he's managing a fantasy team here, and needs to rack up saves? If he'd come out and say that he thought Mota was the right call, and it didn't work, I could at least understand it. I hate that there's no flexibility in the "script" and I still thought you stick with Villy there, but I would have at least understood it.

 

I will never understand the save situation comment, I think that statement alone is the defining moment of the Ned Yost era, and like others, I'm now starting to question Melvin and Mark A allowing this to continue.

[Fatter than Joey]

And that's really the problem. We can get the pitchforks out and run Yost out of his current position but there's little chance that the next manager wouldn't make the same mistakes.

 

I agree -- but that should not save Ned's bacon.

 

If Villy went out and blew chuncks I have no doubt others would have been saying the same thing about the game being Yosted.

 

Backup -- I love you man, I really do, but I am growing weary of strawman arguments -- you are way better than this.

[BrewCrewForever]

It was bad enough that he went with Mota in the first place over using Villa for another inning. But then he just leaves him out there after clearly seeing he was getting hit very hard. Just plain stupidity on Yost's part once again.

[brewjihad]

Strategy, winning... everything is less important than what Ned wants to see happen!

Actually, he has Mota on his 6x6 fantasy team and he needed a hold really bad.

[Postseason2006]

I honestly thought they took the hold stat out years ago back when Chuck Crim is pitching. Our local paper never shows them anyhow.

 

What bothers me most about last night was the fact that Ned did nothing to slow the situation down and waited to the game was arguably lost. I mean sheesh. If you haven't hit the iceberg yet, there still is that possibility Ned to get the Titanic turned no? Not with Captain Yost at Sea.

[RU Rah Rah]

I will never understand the save situation comment, I think that statement alone is the defining moment of the Ned Yost era, and like others, I'm now starting to question Melvin and Mark A allowing this to continue.

I was wondering about this today as I mowed my lawn. Ned clearly is overmatched and hopeless. But shouldn't the grown-ups know better?

 

[dlk9s]

I'm still reeling over the save situation comment. Does Ned think he's managing a fantasy team here, and needs to rack up saves? If he'd come out and say that he thought Mota was the right call, and it didn't work, I could at least understand it. I hate that there's no flexibility in the "script" and I still thought you stick with Villy there, but I would have at least understood it.

Agreed. At least come up with a better reason for the pitching change. If Yost honestly thought Mota would give the team the best chance to keep the lead in the 8th, fine. He would have been wrong, but there's no shame in being wrong, as long as there is some sort of logical reason.

Look at Shouse. He's come in and given up a couple bombs this year, but I don't think any of us really ever question his use (we question his LACK of use sometimes, but when he's brought in, it typically makes sense). He's usually very reliable, but sometimes he doesn't come through. It happens. But he's brought in for a real reason, not because of some statistic.

 

[jazzytrav]

Since I thought it was the right move last night before it backfired I guess I should admit that now. Villy did look fine but he has had his share of problems this season... It always has to be the manager's fault.

BC, I can actually buy into what you're saying here, but that's not what Ned said. He was very clear to say that he brought in Mota because "it was a save situation". If I actually thought that Ned had put as much thought into the decision as you have, I wouldn't have as much of a problem. But his responses when he talks about it make it seem like he put absolutely no thought other than "it's a save situation and he's the 'setup' guy." It's just so robotic. I keep seeing more and more reasons to not pay a guy, and this is another. Why pay someone if the decisions have so little thought put into them?

 

It's like he has a 3 page manual that he memorizes every night.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[Brewer Fever]

It's like he has a 3 page manual that he memorizes every night.

I think you're being generous with your estimate on the size of that manual.

 

 

(fixed code --1992)

[Weirdos19]

I guess my problem with Friday's game is that Ned made countless defensive replacements last year, and basically none this year.

 

Last year, Braun, Weeks, Hart, and Mench were consistently replaced with better fielders late in games. This year, he doesn't do anything.

 

My ideal move would've been to replace Braun with Cameron in center and Kapler in left. Seems elementary. Letting Kendall hit in the ninth made no sense either. His average is dying about as fast as the stock market.

[pebadger]

3 pages, but really large type.

[MickeyDavis]

Who do you think he gets to read it to him?

[dlk9s]

I think you're being generous with your estimate on the size of that manual.

And I doubt it's memorized.

 

 

(pared back nested quote --1992)

[brewjihad]

This kinda reminds me of in baseball video games when I would have a closer and if I was up 4 runs in the eighth, I'd bring in a crappy guy to throw one down the pipe and let them hit it out so I could rack up a save with my guy in the ninth inning.

 

Unfortunately for Ned, the Brewers, and us, this isn't video game baseball.

[DougJones43]

And I doubt it's memorized.

Ha. Yeah, he has the cliff notes written on his forearms (when big lighty thing in outfield says 8th inning, use 8th inning pitcher), and that's why he always has to wear sleeves!

[MickeyDavis]

Let's all go back to happier times

 

http://mybrewers.mlblogs.com/my_brewers/images/yost1029.jpg

[trwi7]

Whoa, before Doug's hair went gray! Ned must be thinking once I get this uniform on, Doug is in my control.

[logan82]

Whoa, before Doug's hair went gray! Ned must be thinking once I get this uniform on, Doug is in my control.

Check the Mustaches. They must not have had Just for Men for beards and mustaches yet.

 

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