Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 3)

[BrewCrewForever]

Something has to give. Please Mark and Doug just put us all out of our miserys and fire Ned. I personally think that if they had not won 3 of 4 from the Cards and the first game of that LA series he may already be gone. I just hope he is gone either after tomorrow's game or no later then after the road trip. Promote Kremblas or Simmons.

 

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Continued from:

 

viewtopic.php?p=359020#p359020

 

Original Lead:

 

viewtopic.php?t=12043

[Bruce Ciskie]

Look at the standings. We're in LAST FREAKING PLACE.

 

Then take a look at the boxscore from last night's game. Three guys in our "regular" lineup are batting below .200.

 

This is beyond embarrassing. I don't care who gets fired anymore, as long as it isn't Jack Z, who appears to be the only person in the organization that is doing his job.

 

I may not be a naturally patient person, but I don't know how there could still be people who are exercising patience with this crap team.

[TeeJayh1980]

I honestly don't want a manager who says this after a game where his players made four errors. It's such a cop-out.

 

"The Red Sox made a bunch of errors, too, and they're world champions," Milwaukee manager Ned Yost said. "Think they're learning anything tonight? It happens. You make errors."

-source AP News

[moofnelson]

Good point TeeJay. I didn't catch that quote, but I did catch this one, "We played the world champions pretty well. We just didn't win a dad-gum game." After reading that, I immediately thought, "Are we being managed by an old, gold rush prospector?"

[Brewer Fever]

I honestly don't want a manager who says this after a game where his players made four errors. It's such a cop-out.

 

"The Red Sox made a bunch of errors, too, and they're world champions," Milwaukee manager Ned Yost said. "Think they're learning anything tonight? It happens. You make errors."

-source AP News

Could you imagine what Lou Pinella would have said following that debacle? And we're supposed to be afraid that if Ned tears his players a new one, that they'll all pee their pants and be incapable of taking the field the next day. Lou Pinellla was a players-only meeting away from resigning after the Cubs poor start last year. Derek Lee spoke up and told his teammates that Lou's tough love was not the problem. They needed to man up and start performing. Result: Lou stays and teams starts playing baseball.

 

Ned has these guys playing like teenage boys feeling sorry for themselves. "I hit it hard but it's always right at someone." I made a couple bad pitches, other than that I coulda got the win." We need a manager in here that will hold these players accountable and make them look in the mirror like the Cubs players did last year.

[sheethead]

I am not watching one more game on (on TV, I have no choice with my ticket package), until Ned Yost gets fired. I can't remember the last time the Journal Sentinel made me so angry. The quotes and mindset of this manager are... I have no words. Its mind-blowing how incompetent this dude is.

[MickeyDavis]

I'm fine with Ned not calling out his players by name in the media. I never thought that was effective. But I'm sick to death of the stupid excuses he keeps coming up with. How about "Four errors is completely unacceptable. We have been stressing better defense since last season ended and a major league team should never commit four errors in a game".

[sheethead]

"Four errors is completely unacceptable. We have been stressing better defense since last season ended and a major league team should never commit four errors in a game".

 

What are you up to the next 4 months? Care to manage a baseball team?

[naivin]

But I'm sick to death of the stupid excuses he keeps coming up with. How about "Four errors is completely unacceptable. We have been stressing better defense since last season ended and a major league team should never commit four errors in a game".

Aside from making you and a few other people feel better, what exactly would saying that actually accomplish?

[Roscoe Chill]

What would it accomplish? How about showing that the manager of the Milwaukee Brewers has a clue?

[naivin]

What would it accomplish? How about showing that the manager of the Milwaukee Brewers has a clue?

Show who? You? I'm pretty sure showing the fans he has a clue is not necessarily at the top of his list of objectives. Obviously his bosses feel he has a clue, or he wouldn't be in that dugout every day.

 

I'll ask again, but be a bit more specific - in terms of what happens on the field, in the clubhouse, etc, what excactly would it accomplish?

 

 

[jazzytrav]

It would accomplish showing ticket holders that we're not just going to ride it out with a manager that makes an excuse about every bad thing that happens. Why would I bother buying a ticket to a game to watch a bunch of guys being led by a manager that publicly accepts their faults?

[Roscoe Chill]

Naivin, I have a straight forward question for you. When the Brewers do finally part ways with Ned Yost, what will your stance be then? Will you be mad?

[naivin]

It would accomplish showing ticket holders that we're not just going to ride it out with a manager that makes an excuse about every bad thing that happens. Why would I bother buying a ticket to a game to watch a bunch of guys being led by a manager that publicly accepts their faults?

 

Maybe you wouldn't. But thank you for putting it out there so clearly. The reason you want him to publicly criticize his players is to make you feel better - to make you more comfortable buying a ticket. That's your reason, and that's fine and good, but I will ask one more time...in terms of play on the field, wins, losses, etc., what do you expect that type of public criticism to accomplish?

[jazzytrav]

The only time I have ever heard Ned hold anyone else accountable is when he makes a bonehead decision, and instead of taking the blame personally, he throws someone else under the bus. So basically, when it's his fault, he blames the players by name. When the players suck, he blames it on some kind of mysterious force that makes the Brewers hitters hit the ball right at people and makes the ball take a nasty hop at the last second in the field. It's rarely the player's fault, and it's NEVER his fault.

[crossface21]

Ned can't play the field or bat for these guys, but he does need to put them in a position to be successful. Of Ryan Braun's 11 HR's, 9 or 10 have been solo shots. The guys ahead of him aren't getting on base so at least try changing the batting order. It may not work, but try something. These are major league hitters and saying that somebody can't hit because he needs to settle into their spot in the line-up is stupid. Nobody is scared of this line-up. If you include the pitcher, we have 4 everyday players hitting below .200. Change something up.

[naivin]

Naivin, I have a straight forward question for you. When the Brewers do finally part ways with Ned Yost, what will your stance be then? Will you be mad?

Actually, no. If they were to make a move on Ned today, I'd understand and be fine with it. I simply see little or nothing to be gained by doing so. "Fire the coach/manager" is a losers lament, generally fueld by wishful thinking on the part of fans seeking easy answers to complex problems, because they just want to beleive a team is better than they may actually be.

[Roscoe Chill]

And why does it have to be public criticism? Why can't you just say four errors is unacceptable? Why do you have to say "The World Champions made errors too, so...?" That's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying he should say "Bill Hall really sucked today." I'm saying I'm sick of the crap he spews after another embarrassment. He's clueless.

[Beast Light]

Show who? You? I'm pretty sure showing the fans he has a clue is not necessarily at the top of his list of objectives. Obviously his bosses feel he has a clue, or he wouldn't be in that dugout every day.

 

I'll ask again, but be a bit more specific - in terms of what happens on the field, in the clubhouse, etc, what excactly would it accomplish?

I think that it would instill a sense of accountability on this team. It seems to be that the young players on this team are allowed to do whatever they want and when they make mistakes, Ned just defends them by generating excuses. It is one thing to support your players but it is another thing to not hold them accountable for anything that they do on the field.

 

I am not a Lou Piniella fan by any means, but if you look at the Chicago Cubs, there is a sense of accountability on the team. When someone screws up or makes a boneheaded, costly play, Lou does not make the fact that he is irritated a secret. A perfect example is this was when, a few weeks ago, Rich Hill was having major issues throwing strikes in the second inning of a game. At the time, he had not given up many runs but Lou removed him from the game. Lou did this to make a statement ..you don't throw strikes, you don't pitch. Did the decision put added stress on the bullpen? Yes. Was the decision in the best interest of that particular game? Probably not. Did the decision do a lot as far as sending a message to everyone on the team and help to maintain a culture of accountability? In my opinion, absolutely. Does having such a culture in place pay off in the long run? I believe it does.

 

My intent is not to vent but it really seems that the Brewers get picked off, pop out on 3-0 counts, refuse to take pitches after the previous 2 batters have been walked on 8 pitches ..etc. The team needs a change in culture and the only way to accomplish this is going to be by hiring a hard-nosed manager. We have reached the point where "battling" is simply not good enough anymore.

 

The Brewers are currently 3 games below .500. They could easily be 6 games below by the time this road trip is over. Even with no Gallardo, that is a problem. If people think that Ned doesn't have anything to do with this, then I wonder why MLB teams even have managers in the first place.

[naivin]

And why does it have to be public criticism? Why can't you just say four errors is unacceptable? Why do you have to say "The World Champions made errors too, so...?" That's what I'm talking about.

 

And I'll ask one more time still...for what purpose?

[Roscoe Chill]

I guess you just don't get it naivin. I have no idea how to lay out concrete proof on some things, because I don't know what would happen. And neither do you. See the post above your last one to at least try and comprehend what some of us are talking about.

[Brewer Fever]

And why does it have to be public criticism? Why can't you just say four errors is unacceptable? Why do you have to say "The World Champions made errors too, so...?" That's what I'm talking about.

And I'll ask one more time still...for what purpose?

naivin, please just stop asking the question. Why does any manager ever get fired? The way you spin it, it's as though player performance is never a reason behind a manager getting the boot. Haven't you ever found that you worked harder at a job working for one manager as opposed to another. Not because you chose to work hard or not, but because you responded differently to different people. I've never slacked off at any job, but I did achieve more than I ever thought imaginable in a short span working under a boss who drove me beyond my expectations. He never let me relax. I'd acquire a skill in one week. I'd expect that I'd have a month or two to get comfortable with the new tasks on my plate. Instead he'd throw something else at me the next week. I was running the company in under a year. If I had worked under my timeframe, it would've taken me 10 years to accomplish all that.

 

If it took more than results on the field to get a manager canned then we'd only see them fired when they commit embarrassing public acts.

[naivin]

No, actually I get it just fine. What exactly does hold players accountable mean though? Should he be putting Hall, Cameron and Weeks on the bench and playing Counsell, Dillon, and Kapler every day? Would that be preferable? I'm sure nobody would criticize him for that. Other than putting guys on the bench, how else does a manager hold players accountable, by crticizing them publicly?

 

The Rich Hill example is a pretty bad one...He's in AAA at the moment. Did that experience make him better? Not yet. Did it make the Cubs better? Well, yes I suppose it has, because his replacement is performing better. What alternatives does Yost have to the guys who aren't performing (This also quickly enters Doug Melvin's realm from a telent perspective)?

 

My question that you refuse or are incapable of answering was as to a specific point of what some think Yost should say...that saying something to the effect of "4 errors is unacceptable" to the media would be preferrable. Preferrable why? Please tell me what tangible impact would that have? How will that help them win games? If you want him to say it simply to make you feel better as jazzytrav (perhaps unwittingly) admitted, that's cool, but lets call it what it is. If not, please explain to me how that is going to make the team better.

[lcbj68c]

There is accountability in the clubhouse, you just dont see it in the media interview room. I too, don't understand the incentive to piss and moan and whine to a bunch of reporters so that the fans feel better. Ned Yost does not have to make me feel better at night so that I go and buy a ticket tomorrow. Now, I'd be all for some lineup changes and things like that, I just dont think critiquing his interview style and responses should lead to hiring/firing and certainly dont think it has anything to do with pitchers throwing strikes, batters hitting the ball, and fielders fielding the ball. I've heard his voice yelling and screaming from behind closed doors and that's good enough for me. What he tells a room full of pencil pushers, I could care less.

[naivin]

naivin, please just stop asking the question. Why does any manager ever get fired?

 

I'll take that to mean you don't have an answer. Beast Light at leats attempted to provide some reasoning, although what he really provided was an example of actions taken by Lou Piniella where he help a player accountable by pulling him, not saying X,Y, and Z to the assembled media. Yet, many are suggesting that saying X,Y and Z matters.

Of course managers/coaches are fired for all kinds of reasons. That's not really what I'm talking about, as my point is a very specific one in response to a very specific (but often repeated in similar forms) comment...Since quite a few people feel its important, I would simply like to know why/how making different kinds of public comments, is going to help the Brewers win games?