Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 4)

[giffted1]

It's a pretty good indicator as to how well they handle pressure.

Hardly. Prince, for example is very rough in interviews but seems to handle pressure well. I don't see the correlation.

[jazzytrav]

I'd bet in his Philly days Francona had some pretty hairy interviews.

 

I don't see any reason to say this if you don't have any evidence. All it says is that you're content with speculation as a basis for opinion.

 

 

Prince, for example is very rough in interviews but seems to handle pressure well. I don't see the correlation.

Prince is shy. There's a big difference between being shy while saying things that matter and acting all arrogant the way Yost does. Ned flies off the handle because his decisions are being questioned.

[giffted1]

I don't see any reason to say this if you don't have any evidence. All it says is that you're content with speculation as a basis for opinion.

Isn't this whole discussion of Francona speculation? I doubt any of us watched the Red Sox or Phillies enough to say with certainty that he's a great interviewer. Even Ned has some good interviews at times. And once again, why does this even matter?

 

Prince is shy. There's a big difference between being shy while saying things that matter and acting all arrogant the way Yost does. He There's a big difference. Ned flies off the handle because his decisions are being questioned.

So you agree that there's no correlation between being good in interviews and handling pressure?

[jeffy]

when the Brewers make the playoffs a couple times in the next few years...That will be enough for me to think Yost is a good manager.

 

And if they don't make the playoffs any time in the next few years?

[jazzytrav]

So you agree that there's no correlation between being good in interviews and handling pressure?

 

No, I'm saying that Ned seems to be horrible at handling pressure. I don't know if that translates to the game, but you can almost always tell in an interview if someone has a handle on things. Ned does not do this well. If my manager had a press conference and she acted like Ned does in his, I would have a hard time respecting her decisions.

 

Isn't this whole discussion of Francona speculation? I doubt any of us watched the Red Sox or Phillies enough to say with certainty that he's a great interviewer.

 

Yes, for the most part it is, and Francona was brought up in the first place as a means of supporting Yost.

[Thurston Fluff]

 

 

 

 

But you seem to be edging toward the argument that Ned is a better manager than Francona. If that's true, then . . . would the Red Sox hire Ned to replace Francona, ever?

Of course not. No team in its right mind would hire Ned after his tenure with the Brewers ends.

I'm not nearly as sure of that as you are. They did hire a manager who had a worse record after 4 years than Yost did his first 4 here didn't they? If Ned has a winning record this year (considering the schedule ahead he most liklely will) he will have had a .500 or better record 3 of the last 4 years with a payroll roughly 90 million less than the Sox did in the same period of time. I think most of us here don't really know how the rest of baseball sees Yost and the job he's done here. He has, after all, taken one of the worst franchises in baseball and managed to make them into a winning club with one of the youngest teams in the league.

I fully unsderstand that he has not done this by himself but if you look at the Brewers from the outside looking in the manager does get viewed as a postitive part of that transformation. I have no doubt what so ever that he most certainly would get another job managing and wouldn't be at all surprsied if it was with one of the big name teams.

 

but if we must I will use the Yost arguement for Francona in Philly, too many injuries at the wrong time.

 

Ned has had his share of injuries as well. In the only year he didn't have at least a .500 record in the last 4 years he lost 3/5ths of his starting staff. He's lost Sheets several years in a row. Jenkins was lost in his allstar year. Weeks, Hardy, YoGa, Okha, Cappy...the list goes on, So no I don't buy Francona having had worse luck injury wise than Yost at all.

 

Paul Byrd and Andy Ashby were terrible, Pat Burrell was a rookie, Scott Rolen and Bobby Abreu were the only offensive bright spots

 

So why does Francona get some slack when his players are terrible and not Yost? We had Turnbow and Kolb as closers for heavens sake. Yost has worked with scrap heap bullpens every year he's been here until this year. He worked with reclaimation projects like Clark and Po so I really don't think this line of reasoning help's your case in any way. If anything it only strengthens my case that all thing being equal Francona isn't as good as Yost.

As for Burell being a rookie I don't think Francona has had to play with as many rookies at key spots all over like Yost has yet Yost managed a winning record with all that youth so no excuse there. Rolen and Abreu might have been the only bright spots offensively but they were probably better than Jenkins and Sexon which were the only two bright spots when Ned didn't have winning teams for the Brewers.

I don't think Francona is bad mind you I just think Yost isn't either. Looking at both of them under fairly similar circumstances Yost had the better of it. Thus I have no doubt under similar circumstance in Boston Ned would have the better of it as well. I'm sure Boston would see the same thing if they ended up looking for another manager.

 

Yes, for the most part it is, and Francona was brought up in the first place as a means of supporting Yost.

 

Actually no it wasn't. It was just the opposite.

 

For the record since Francona got fired the Phillies only had one losing season and that was by one game.

[jazzytrav]

when the Brewers make the playoffs a couple times in the next few years...That will be enough for me to think Yost is a good manager.

And if they don't make the playoffs any time in the next few years?

Then it's the player's fault, right TWR?

 

 

Yes, for the most part it is, and Francona was brought up in the first place as a means of supporting Yost.

 

Actually no it wasn't. It was just the opposite.

You're right, BC. I think it was just a bad argument that quickly turned in your favor so I thought you started it http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[sheethead]

Ahh, I guess there are always excuses. I know what I see in Yost, and its nothing special for sure. He tries hard I guess, but I just don't think he (a) has the luck he needs to succeed in this game, and (b) the creativitiy needed for longevity. Do me a favor and listen to his pre-game show on TMJ a few days this week, then tell me he is dealing with a full managerial deck.

[TooLiveBrew]

[The Red Sox] did hire a manager who had a worse record after 4 years than Yost did his first 4 here didn't they?

 

So are you saying that teams look at more factors than W-L record, Buc? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

For the record since Francona got fired the Phillies only had one losing season and that was by one game

 

Clearly his player-aquiring-for-the-Phillies skills stunk when he was there, but improved after he left.

[trwi7]

Did this clown learn nothing from the beanball war against the Cards last year? You hit Tejada to get to Berkman? That's grounds for firing right there.

[brewcrew00]

Did this clown learn nothing from the beanball war against the Cards last year? You hit Tejada to get to Berkman? That's grounds for firing right there.

So do you think hitting Braun for Fielder with two on is any better?

 

[rluzinski]

So do you think hitting Braun for Fielder with two on is any better?

 

I think it's stupid in both situations but at least the Astros were setting up the dp. O yeh.... also Oswalt is a good pitcher and McClung is not.

[endaround]

The other team was stupid first! We can't help ourselves!

[MJLiverock]

I agreed with plunking Pujols last year, he was probably going to walk him anyway so it really didn't matter and if I recall the Brewers were already down a run and there was no reason let Pujols whack one out of the park. It always puzzles me why people think this cost the Brewers the playoffs, they were already losing and walking Pujols was not a stupid move given he was about the only threat in the lineup at that point of the season.

[Glennron]

Using Tavarez in a 1 run game in the 7th inning, nice. I'm very curious if anyone here would use him in that situation if they were the manager for today.

[Diskono]

Using Tavarez in a 1 run game in the 7th inning, nice. I'm very curious if anyone here would use him in that situation if they were the manager for today.

 

I would have kept the starter who had given up 3 hits and thrown just 85 pitches in the game, but that's just me.

[Glennron]

I would have kept the starter who had given up 3 hits and thrown just 85 pitches in the game, but that's just me.

I think that's the most pitches he's thrown this year, plus a runner was on when his spot came up in the top of the 7th so they had to pinch hit.

[brewcrew00]

The Brewers could finish 100-62 on the season, and Ned's record in the eyes of some would be 0-62. The 100 wins would come out of hatred for the manager.

 

Point being, when is there ever a point in time where the PLAYERS are responsible?

[Glennron]

The Brewers could finish 100-62 on the season, and Ned's record in the eyes of some would be 0-62. The 100 wins would come out of hatred for the manager.

 

Point being, when is there ever a point in time where the PLAYERS are responsible?

I'm not sure if you're responding to me or not, but I in no way suggested today's game was Yost's fault. I simply asked if anyone here thought bringing in Tavarez was a good move.

[brewcrew00]

No, sorry, I should have been more clear. I wasn't responding to anyone, just posting in the Ned thread.

 

I don't think Tavarez was the best move to be made, but I don't think that's what cost them the game.

[MickeyDavis]

Why have Dillard warming up and then bring in Tavarez? Why have a rookie pinch hit and face a guy who was dominating us? Counsell at least has had 24 AB's against him.

[Beast Light]

My favorite quotes from the post game..

 

 

 

(In reference to having runners on 1st and 3rd in the 1st inning with 1 out and failing to score runs)

 

"There's no such thing as missed opportunities when you're going against Oswalt"

 

 

 

(In reference to Cameron's misplayed ball in CF)

 

"If Mike doesn't catch that ball, no one does. That ball was smoked"

 

 

 

I can't listen to the post game interviews anymore. They agitate me.

[silversurferr]

Bringing in Tavarez was a stupid move. There is a reason he was jobless until the Brewers picked him up. He is a decent mop up guy that can save your staff in a blowout, but nothing else. Coulda brought in Dillard or Mota, correct? I think I saw Ned screaming at Simmons after Tavarez's meltdown. Tavarez mighta been Teddy's bright idea. Fire Ned. Bring in Molitor. He won't overthink ever move.

[pebadger]

To clarify the plunking situation, provided you beleive that neither plunking was accidental:

 

Cooper was going to put Braun on regardless. Braun can turn even a bad pitch into trouble, so they didn't want to mess around trying to pitch around him. At that point it's IBB or HBP. It's clear that Braun rubs some folks the wrong way. I think they figured plunking him sent a message on that score, and saved three pitches to boot.

 

Double play thus set up. Fielder is coming to the plate in any situation, save Braun lining into a DP.

 

Yost had Tejada hit not for any tactical reason. He did it to make a point. He thought he was being smart doing it with 2 out and none on, and he was doing it 'immediately' so as to get the issue out of the way and show that the plunking of his guy wouldn't be tolerated. Problem was, it extaended the inning and brought Berkman to the plate. He didn't want to wait to plunk Berkman to start the next inning because in that case he'd be putting the leadoff guy on.

 

Big difference in thinking. Coop got to make a point without any impact on his tactical management of the inning. Yost made a point at the expense of the tactical management of the inning.

 

You tell me which is smarter. I could be completely off in this guess as to what was going on, but I invite alternative explanations which accept the basic premise that neither plunk was an accident.

 

Other than that, I didn't have a big problem with Tavarez in the 7th. Maybe not the optimal choice, but he's been pretty good for the Crew so far, and this was a game in which the players lack of execution is the overriding factor in the loss. Tonight was not a Yosting, but it did provide some more food for thought in terms of trying to figure out if Yost's thought processes are even worth figuring out.

[Roscoe Chill]

Roy Oswalt can't be beat. Josh Beckett, or the Red Sox for that matter can't be beat. Tim Hudson is a stud. I'm so sick of hearing about how good the teams the Brewers face are. Using Ned's logic these no name guys the Brewers keep giving great life moments to tell the grandchildren about are inexcusable...but in those cases, the "battling" just came up short. Puke.