Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 4)

[jazzytrav]

I'd bet any team we thought was an 83-85 win type team and they outperformed that expectation we'd all say the manager did a nice job.

 

That's a pretty broad generalization. I didn't mean to make such a generalization in my post as I'm sure it sounded that way. TLB hit it right on the head. There are so many Yost supporters that say "who else would do any better" and so many that don't like Yost that can only say "anyone would do better." It doesn't really add anything, and I think it fuels posts like Owen's (no offense) that basically say that the fire Yost thing is a knee jerk reaction.

 

How many people were on the Giradi bandwagon?

 

Not I http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif To add to this, I'd be willing to bet that if the Marlins had a message board similar to this one with similar members, Girardi wouldn't have been looked on as highly. The general population of fans are going to like a guy based on wins and losses and championships, but there are some that look at it a little more deeply.

 

He never throws a player under the bus publicly.

 

Yeah, this one I have to take issue with. Just recently, he threw Kendall under the bus because he "missed the steal sign." And that's only the most recent example. He's thrown everyone but himself in front of the blame, including the Miller Park mosquitos.

[Fatter than Joey]

Mota has been very good for the Brewers all year.

 

False.

 

I have a question for those of you who contantly bash Yost; who is the manager you want to hire after you fire Yost?

 

1. Mike Hargrove

2. Tic Tac Toe Chicken

3. Some guy not named Dale Sveum

[TooLiveBrew]

The triumphant return of TTTPC-Rod!

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Brewer Fever]

If Counsel takes over against righties and bats leadoff, I think it's time to stage a brown paper bag revolt like Bucks fans were driven to this year. Big brown paper bags with "Yosted" in big black letters on them.

[sheethead]

Even keel as in a profanity laced tirade directed at the opposing manager? I'll conceed one point, Yost is doing something right. I may not be able to put my finger on it, but there has to be something.

[Brewer Killa]

This is the most common response from those that support Yost. I don't get it. Don't get me wrong, I understand some reasons why people seem to like Ned...I don't agree with them, but I understand them. The problem is that the most common retort about anything regarding Ned is that he must be doing something right. I can't remember anyone naming something that he does consistently well. Even most supporters agree that he's not good with the bullpen. He was good with the young guys even though he now says that they're not young guys anymore even though he still called them kids in his press conference. I think we can all pretty much agree that he's horrible with the media. Hell, there are some days when I would take a Guillen press conference over one of Ned's. So what does he do well that justifies him keeping his job?

 

I will first say that I am neither a supporter or a basher. I believe that the manager has much less to do with the outcome than some believe. But this bashing has really gotten to me because we have now gotten to defensive replacements and how he acts in the media. Defensive replacements are done when there is a big difference in what the player brings in the field. Kapler is no butcher in the field so Cameron got the entire day off. And Yost in the media. Who cares? Melvin, Yost, or any other figure in sports gives the same quotes and crap in most interviews. So you don't like his tone or whatever. Come on, this is getting silly. The players make a much bigger difference than any of this and there must be a better way to vent your anger.

 

As for what he does right? Who says what is right or wrong? Because of bunch of people write on the internet, it's right or wrong? I question some moves but there are always other reasons as to why we lost the game. If you a Yost bashing thread, we should have never lost a game. All the answers are in there. We could get shutout and Yost put a bad lineup out there or made a bad pitching change. It's funny to read but it seems as if we should never lose and all the venting is aimed at him. You could watch any baseball and ask the same questions about the manager. But I will guess that for every time you got something right, there were twenty other things that worked and nothing was said. A great example is in the bars. From the sounds of it, it may be some of the same people here. But we give up runs and you hear, "Yost sucks, why didn't he put in? or "Pinch hit you idiot". There are many more but you get the idea. Well they scream this stuff all game long. Well sooner or later you will get one right and then you can say "See, Yost is an idiot" But there were so many crazy things said before, you made 5 pitching changes and used 3 pinch hitters and its only the 7th.

 

It is all hog wash to me. If we pitch better and hit a bit more, all will be well and Yost will still get heat. It has started and now some want us to do poorly so he gets fired (what?) and even if we do well if is because the players bailed him out (what?). He will never be right in some minds and that is what gets me. I guess you can never admit when Yost is right because that would hurt you case of hating him.

[jazzytrav]

And Yost in the media. Who cares? Melvin, Yost, or any other figure in sports gives the same quotes and crap in most interviews.

 

Melvin has specific strategic reasons for why he says some of the things he says. Even so, he's completely different than Ned in interviews. Ned just seems annoyed that he has to be questioned on anything. There was the one time when Melvin called us all internet geeks, but...well...we are. At least he was stating a fact and not the crap Ned spews out in every press conference. And it gets annoying to hear "Who cares?". It's part of his job. Guarantee you if there's a job description out there for MLB manager, one of the requirements is to deal with the media. It's part of his job, and he fails at it.

 

As for what he does right? Who says what is right or wrong? Because of bunch of people write on the internet, it's right or wrong?

 

That has to be the coolest job in the world if you can do whatever you want and no one can tell you that it's wrong.

 

You could watch any baseball and ask the same questions about the manager. But I will guess that for every time you got

something right, there were twenty other things that worked and nothing was said.

 

This argument is getting really old. You just keep spinning your wheels on these things. Your entire post is speculation and strawman.

 

A great example is in the bars. From the sounds of it, it may be some of the same people here. But we give up runs and you hear, "Yost sucks, why didn't he put in? or "Pinch hit you idiot". There are many more but you get the idea. Well they scream this

stuff all game long. Well sooner or later you will get one right and then you can say "See, Yost is an idiot" But there were so many crazy things said before, you made 5 pitching changes and used 3 pinch hitters and its only the 7th.

 

First of all, the bar comment doesn't seem necessary since you phrased it as an insult. Second, you can't make up a situation that you might have seen in a bar sometime and assume that the posters on bf.net are the same way. It's a crazy generalization and doesn't really add anything to this discussion.

 

I guess you can never admit when Yost is right because that would hurt you case of hating him.

 

I guess you didn't read this thread then. I've made several comments lately saying that I liked things that Yost has done. I'm not above complimenting him when I think he makes good decisions, and there are others here that are the same way. Don't take your generalizations of the fan population and bring them in here just because it's convenient.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I don't know if anyone happened to listen to WSSP this morning, but a guy from Baseball Prospectus was on and he emphasized how little the manager factored into winning games in the major leagues. He also defended Yost and said he was doing a good job this year. I know we all respect Baseball Prospectus highly on this site so you should take a listen and maybe that will settle you down about Ned Yost.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Yost media comments do show a lot, the fact is he has no consistent philosophy shines right through everything he says.

The fact that you are saying that means you are taking Yost's comments to the media at full price which is a mistake in my opinion. Yost said Mota was the 8th inning guy to the media, right? Who came in the 8th inning yesterday? It sure wasn't Guillermo Mota. He doesn't need to be wasting his time with the media, and maybe he should so he could please his fan base, which he obviously doesn't care about, and to tell you the truth, I don't really care what he says either. I care about what he does on the field, and so far this year, he's done a decent job. Unless of course he just would have made Weeks and Cameron hit better at the top of the lineup and stopped Gallardo from getting injured. What a horrible manager!

[jazzytrav]

he emphasized how little the manager factored into winning games in the major leagues. He also defended Yost and said he was doing a good job this year.

Contradiction? If he factors so little into winning games, then what exactly is he doing a good job at?

 

Pretty sure if I was Doug Melvin and I had a guy on my payroll for over a million dollars and he had little to do with winning games, I probably wouldn't keep him around.

 

This same argument keeps coming up. Yost has nothing to do with the team winning or losing. Great, so I'm going to give the same response: then why do we pay him!?

[uwisfan]

in this case, we can replace Ned with a Magic 8 ball, a Ouija board, or Ned's hat (the one that decided playing Hall earlier in the year).

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Contradiction? If he factors so little into winning games, then what exactly is he doing a good job at?

He's done a good job at not losing games which is different than winning games. No contradiction there. If you heard the interview, you would have had the explanation how managers have little effect on games, but they can lose them once in a while, while rarely win them.

[Fatter than Joey]

What a horrible manager!

 

I agree

 

If you heard the interview, you would have had the explanation how managers have little effect on games, but they can lose them once in a while, while rarely win them.

 

Of course you are taking a very general study and applying it to a very specific situation. No one here thinks Yost costs us 20 games a year -- but even 2 or 3 is way too many.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Of course you are taking a very general study and applying it to a very specific situation. No one here thinks Yost costs us 20 games a year -- but even 2 or 3 is way too many.

Isn't that the purpose of studies? Assuming that no manager is perfect, losing 2 to 3 games in a year is nothing to be ashamed of. Even Lou Pinella and Joe Torre lose games. Ask Detroit how they feel about Jim Leyland.

[uwisfan]

yeah, I would definitely not be worried about a manager losing 2 or 3 on his own bad decisions. But I don't feel Yost is in that category. I think he's a closer to the 20 number you mentioned.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I think he's a closer to the 20 number you mentioned.

And I personally think that's outrageous, but that's just me. If you could site 20 games that he lost for us after September is over, I'd be very surprised. Yost's managing is really over analyzed around the Milwaukee Area and he gets a lot of unnecessary blame, but I can't change people's opinions so I'll just keep pointing out the facts.

[Fatter than Joey]

Isn't that the purpose of studies?

 

No.

 

Assuming that no manager is perfect, losing 2 to 3 games in a year is nothing to be ashamed of. Even Lou Pinella and Joe Torre lose games.

 

Good managers win about 3 games a year -- above what their team would do with an average manager -- bad managers cost their team 3 games a year.

 

If Torre was a good manager and Yost was a bad one -- it would be a 6 game swing.

[jazzytrav]

Yost's managing is really over analyzed around the Milwaukee Area and he gets a lot of unnecessary blame, but I can't change people's opinions so I'll just keep pointing out the facts.

No offense, TWR, but I missed the part where you pointed out facts.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Isn't that the purpose of studies?

 

No.

Thanks for the elaboration.

 

No offense, TWR, but I missed the part where you pointed out facts.

I have pointed out many facts throughout my days here at bf.net as well as in this thread. And no offense was taken. I will also keep pointing out facts. A good example of a fact is that Yost said Mota was his 8th inning guy and he didn't put him in the 8th inning proving that what he says to the media isn't always true.

[jazzytrav]

It could also be that he took Mota out of the 8th inning role because he's been getting rocked and he's not really as good as his early season numbers showed.

 

I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt for a long time, the same way you are now. At some point, there was a large enough sample size of stupid in-game management and idiot comments that I realized he's not a good manager.

[logan82]

I honestly think that we would find many of the same faults watching any manager day after day. What we really need if we want a change would be a new GM who believes more in SABRmetrics instead of "this is how it's done in MLB."

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Someone from bf.net should perform a study on this. Find all the games Yost has managed and try to objectively find the ones he lost. The objective part will be tough for all of us, but I would really like to see the results of this study. It might enlighten some of us. It might even prove me wrong! Who knows?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I honestly think that we would find many of the same faults watching any manager day after day. What we really need if we want a change would be a new GM who believes more in SABRmetrics instead of "this is how it's done in MLB."

Tony LaRussa and Lou Pinella are "this is how it's done in MLB" type managers and I think they do ok. What GM's are considered SABRmetrics guys? Billy Beane comes to mind, and I know Bill James has a huge influence in Boston. Any others?

[bullox]

Someone from bf.net should perform a study on this.

I vote you.

 

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I vote you.

I'd love to if I didn't have so much crap going on right now with my job and moving into a new place. I'll put it on my list.