Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 5)

[trwi7]

I'd love to see somebody try to defend Ned putting on a hit and run with the catcher running and pitcher batting.

[Weirdos19]

And, during the pregame show, said it would be nice to win, but it isn't a must win. Huh?

 

No way do you want to lose back to back home series. Especially to the team your trailing.

 

Plus, no need to go get a starter before he starts getting shelled. Tonight made it 3 straight nights.

[Diskono]

Why does Ned seem content to just give up any time the Brewers get behind by more than a couple runs? Blah blah blah can't manage every game like the 7th game of the World Series, I know...but that doesn't mean you have to manage every game like a preseason exhibition game. Did Brian Shouse really need work so badly that he had to pitch to tough righties?

[joepepsi]

Ned Yost... starting Hall against another RHP. Ned, proving time & time again, that he just doesn't fully 'get it'

Surprise! He went 0 fer 4 again!

 

[Mike Felder]

Did I seriously hear Ned use the heat as a rationale for calling a hit-and-run with the pitcher up and a slow runner on base? I think my head just exploded.

[orca1963]

A manager's job is to put them in the best position to win the game

 

"If you amend that to put them in the best position to win the most possible games I agree. Sometimes sacrificing a chance at one game can give a team a better chance at winning the next two. I don't think the current scenario is one of those.

When it comes to last night who gave the Brewers a better chance to win? Soup who gave up 8 runs in 6 innings throwing 64 of his 91 pitches for strikes and had 3 ks' to 1 BB. Or McClung who gave up 3 runs in 2 innings, throwing 27 of his 46 pitches for strikes and walking 2 with 0 k's."

 

 

I understand this logic--one game doesn not a season make--but a fundemental flaw I find in it is that you have no idea what the next game will bring. If you try and save a bullpen and the next night your pitcher is lights out or the opposing team can't get a hit to save their lives, you have saved a bullpen for a situation you did not need. The opposite is also true. You could spend the bullpen thinking your ace will carry you the next night and he crashes and burns..... I understand statistics will play a major role in these scenarios but I firmly believe that you play each and every game to win, and not look forward to the next game. If you do you may just outhink yourself out of winning both games.

[sheethead]

When Kendall was thrown out on a botched hit and run with the pitcher batting, I didn't even have to watch anymore. That was my turning point of the game. Thank you Ned Yost, your idiocy knows no bounds.

[brewcrew00]

So the Brewers win 7 straight on the road, and the players are great. They lose 3 straight to the Cubs and Ned should be fired? How about another abysmal 0'fer with RISP?

[mark brouhard is number on]

I'm sorry if anyone disagrees but Ned is not the reason that the team has totally crapped themselves in this series. It is a combination of the Cubs pitching and hitting ridiculously well, and the Brewers not being able to get a hit with RISP if the lives depended on it, plus this type of baseball just happens during a long season. While I thought it was weird that we hit and ran with the pitcher up to bat, Parra has definitely shown that he can handle the bat well, and with the way the team is playing, Ned has to try anything and everything to get them out of their rut. Maybe the team needs to head out to Water Street as a group and find some Slumpbusters.

[sveumrules]

as dumb as the hit and run was with parra up, it only changes a 7-2 game into a 7-3 game.

 

obviously that call cost us the game, division, wild card and anyshot of ever signing sheets, sabathia or fielder long term.

[jjfanec]

as dumb as the hit and run was with parra up, it only changes a 7-2 game into a 7-3 game.

This really is not true. If Parra triples with Kendall on first, then you have a tie game at 2-2 with a runner at 3rd with only one out. Now with the way this team has hit with RISP it definitely is not a lock that the run scores, but it is not so simple in baseball to say it turns a 7-2 game into a 7-3 game. One decision can change the course of a game.

 

[Postseason2006]

as dumb as the hit and run was with parra up, it only changes a 7-2 game into a 7-3 game.

 

obviously that call cost us the game, division, wild card and anyshot of ever signing sheets, sabathia or fielder long term.

Let the George Brett game be a testament about a changing outcome have an effect on a ballgame.

[sheethead]

as dumb as the hit and run was with parra up, it only changes a 7-2 game into a 7-3 game.

 

obviously that call cost us the game, division, wild card and anyshot of ever signing sheets, sabathia or fielder long term.

Not to mention 100% of the momentum completely swinging back to the Cubs. The only thing we can say for sure is that it would have taken a 2-1 Cubs lead and made the game 2-2. There also would have been a runner on third with one out. Even if the Cubs go on to win 7-3, it doesnt change the fact that Ned Yost put on a hit and run with the catcher on first and the pitcher batting. Whether it costs the Brewers the division is moot. He actually gave the sign, and that is the relevant argument.

 

[holybannana]

Whether it costs the Brewers the division is moot. He actually gave the sign, and that is the relevant argument.

 

Yup. I just wish he could come out and admit his mistakes. I wish he would just say "I haven't managed under these kinds of conditions and I'm learning the hard way". "I'm inexperienced in these things". Or something to that effect.

No, he talked about how he's been in all these big games and blah blah blah.

 

A team will take on the personality of their leader. Pinella is calculative, opportunistic and cold blooded right now. He hasn't cracked a smile in days. He means business and knows what he's doing and his team reflects that.

 

Yost is confused, spontaneous, clumsy and indecisive right now and his team reflects that.

 

I think it will be OK. He'll have some time to reflect on this failure of a series. And here's the silver lining: It's a playoff atmosphere in July. This is a dress rehearsal so it doesn't matter much. We just have to hope he takes the lessons of this series and reflects on it and the team picks up on it.

[Thurston Fluff]

Yup. I just wish he could come out and admit his mistakes. I wish he would just say "I haven't managed under these kinds of conditions and I'm learning the hard way". "I'm inexperienced in these things". Or something to that effect.

 

Leaders do not admit mistakes if they wish to continue to be leaders. They must admit it to themselves, be their own worst critic, but I sincerely think admitting your shortcomings means you do not have the same authority to make those who follow you do so to the best of their abilities. They now start to question you and not execute as well as they should because now your own self doubt becomes theirs. Leaders have to have followers who do what they ask to the fullest of their abilities no questions asked. The best way to do that is to not to question yourself in front of them.

 

For the record I will not defend Yost's move to hit and run because I think it was a mistake. It's one of a thousand poor decisions made by managers everywhere every year that worked out as well as it was conceived.

 

Sometimes I wish we had a strategic decisions thread instead of always coming to the Yost thread with these debates. Strategy, sadly, has become synonymous with being a poor manager. That tends to belittle the other, IMO, more important aspect of the job. I think Ned is very average at that part of managing yet think he's an excellent manager.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'd love to see somebody try to defend Ned putting on a hit and run with the catcher running and pitcher batting.

 

But if it'd worked out, it would've been the right call! Take that!

 

 

Leaders do not admit mistakes if they wish to continue to be leaders. They must admit it to themselves, be their own worst critic, but I sincerely think admitting your shortcomings means you do not have the same authority to make those who follow you do so to the best of their abilities. They now start to question you and not execute as well as they should because now your own self doubt becomes theirs.

 

Good thing Yost hasn't admitted any mistakes -- the team might be playing like crap right now if he did!

 

Buc, I couldn't disagree more with you. True leadership is absolutely about accountability. If admitting a mistake means your team instantly turns on everything you have to say, I'm guessing one mistake didn't cause that alone.

 

Part of what I'm starting to fear as an effect of Yost's inability to admit his mistakes is that it's trickled down to the players. Take the comments from Hall about 'MAYBE it's time for us to adjust' -- the time to adjust has been here for about a week now, and it appears adjusting is just first being considered now. Leadership... where is it?

[giffted1]

Not to mention 100% of the momentum completely swinging back to the Cubs.

And it adversely affected the ratio of pixies to leprechauns.

 

Calling the hit and run was a bad move, but it didn't make much difference except for the mythical momentum factor.

[holybannana]

BackupCatchers, I have to agree with TooLiveBrew as well. Leadership is all about accountability. Your followers will only start to mutiny on you if they never respected you in the first place or if you've strung together such a string of failures they can't rely on you anymore. But I don't think they would in this case because the Brewers have a terrific record and I think overall the managing has been good enough to be respectable this year.

 

But instead of coming out and just saying "shucks, they're just too good for us" he should be saying "I feel like I didn't put my players in the right places to have the best chances to win. I've made some poor decisions in this series to date and coupled with a hot Cubs team it was a recipe for disaster. But this kind of environment is new to me and this team and the experience we've gained from this is as much a moral victory as any. I feel like a better manager today than I did yesterday and these are the growing pains everyone has to go through. Failure starts at the top and that's me and we will improve on this. I won't let my players down again."

 

I don't know how anyone couldn't respect someone saying something like that. And who knows, maybe he does to his players when the clubhouse door is closed. Maybe he just puts on a mask for the media. I sure hope so.

[TooLiveBrew]

Failure starts at the top and that's me and we will improve on this. I won't let my players down again."

 

Wow, if this fell from the lips of Ned Yost... not sure what I'd do. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

I don't know how anyone couldn't respect someone saying something like that. And who knows, maybe he does to his players when the clubhouse door is closed. Maybe he just puts on a mask for the media. I sure hope so.

 

Me too, and this is certainly a very plausible scenario. Who knows, though.

 

 

Calling the hit and run was a bad move, but it didn't make much difference except for the mythical momentum factor.

 

Or the not-so-mythical 'scoring runs' factor.

[bklynbrewcrew]

There never has been any accountability with this team as long as Ned has been around. I have never seen a bigger excuse maker in my life. The lack of fundamentals and downright stupid play year after year is a reflection of poor coaching.

[ozzybourne]

The problem I belive the Brewers are having now is an overall lack of leadership, from Yost to the players.

 

1. Yost. This man has little sense of timing concerning his pitchers, especially the recent use of Jeffy, Benny,and Manny. Now when Neddy does something incredibly stupid like leave Soup in for a 7 run inning, or Benny giving up 7 straight hits with no mound visit--this will definately have an effect on the players, which I believe is a negative. Done once or occasionally, it probably would have minimal impact. Done 3 games out of 4, it may have serious side effects. Combined with well discussed situations over the last couple years, this leaves plenty of room to doubt his in-game management skills by fans and players alike.

 

one more thought on Neddy--Has he ever heard of brushing a batter back? or knocking them down? What a nice guy/team we have.

 

 

2. Players. Cameron and Hall batting .227 each, go 0 for 7 between them with four K's between them. Leaders in the clubhouse??? Hogwash. Who is doing it on the field when it needs to be done? We are in close proximity to a crisis situation and the players better start getting it done, specifically putting the bat on the ball when runners are on base. Is this team ready to win?

 

The players are going to have to step up and do it, because the man at the helm is asleep at the wheel at times.

[giffted1]

Calling the hit and run was a bad move, but it didn't make much difference except for the mythical momentum factor.

 

Or the not-so-mythical 'scoring runs' factor.

There isn't much difference between a 7-2 game and a 7-3 game. I'm by no means saying it was a good move. It wasn't. If anything it shows that even a blatantly wrong move by the manager can have little to no impact on the outcome of the game.

 

There never has been any accountability with this team as long as Ned has been around. I have never seen a bigger excuse maker in my life. The lack of fundamentals and downright stupid play year after year is a reflection of poor coaching.

Would you have said the same thing a week ago? I doubt it. I don't see why people can't grasp the concept of hills and valleys throughout the season. Every teams goes through hot streaks and slumps. We've been bad the past few games, but I'll bet you a buffalo nickel it won't stay that way.

[TooLiveBrew]

Right, but you don't manage knowing the outcome, only how you, the manager can affect the outcome in the here & now. What you're doing is applying hindsight, when the complaints were/are about the decision & how it affected the game in real-time.

 

And I agree, it does indeed show that even a blantantly wrong call might not matter.

[sheethead]

Calling the hit and run was a bad move, but it didn't make much difference except for the mythical momentum factor.

 

Or the not-so-mythical 'scoring runs' factor.

There isn't much difference between a 7-2 game and a 7-3 game. I'm by no means saying it was a good move. It wasn't. If anything it shows that even a blatantly wrong move by the manager can have little to no impact on the outcome of the game.

This argument only works if you don't believe in the intangible aspect of sports called momentum, which obviously you don't. I have played organized sports, and tend to believe its very real. As will the majority of people you ask.

[giffted1]

This argument only works if you don't believe in the intangible aspect of sports called momentum, which obviously you don't. I have played organized sports, and tend to believe its very real. As will the majority of people you ask.

I believe it's real. Just not in baseball. Now football and basketball are a much different story.