College Basketball 2009-2010 (part 2)

[GB12]

Two sweet 16's and an Elite 8 in 9 years is awful?

Seriously? Who did they beat in those?

 

Beat 12 seed Weber State and 13 seed Tulsa (barely, thanks Freddie Owens!)

 

Beat 11 seed Northern Iowa, 14 seed Bucknell and 10 seed North Carolina State.

 

Beat 14 seed Cal State Fullerton and 11 seed Kansas State before losing to 10 seed Davidson.

 

Yeah, really impressive runs to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 there. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

The seeding argument should get thrown out the window once you get past the first round.

[trwi7]

The seeding argument should get thrown out the window once you get past the first round.

Why? How often do you see double digit seeds advancing past the Sweet 16? Not very, because those teams don't have the talent to hang with the higher seeds.

[Buckylovesbeer]

Keaton Nankivil is worthless. Cornell is impressive.

Add Tim J to that list, as well as the two 7 foot stiffs who never play on the bench.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

The defense wasn't at the regular Wisconsin standard, but I didn't think it was particularly bad.

I did. I thought the defense flat-out sucked today.

 

If someone shoots over 50% from outside the arc, the Badgers are going to struggle.

I think pretty much any team would struggle to beat a team shooting over 50% from three, as long as the team was shooting the three-ball often.

[TooLiveBrew]

[quote author=trwi7 wrote:

[/b]

Seriously? Who did they beat in those?

 

Beat 12 seed Weber State and 13 seed Tulsa (barely, thanks Freddie Owens!)

 

Beat 11 seed Northern Iowa, 14 seed Bucknell and 10 seed North Carolina State.

 

Beat 14 seed Cal State Fullerton and 11 seed Kansas State before losing to 10 seed Davidson.

 

Yeah, really impressive runs to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 there. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

So I guess Cornell is just another unimpressive 12 seed, huh?

[theavrock]

Cornell had way too many open looks. When you hang your hat on good defense and then let a team score almost 90 points, thats pretty disappointing. Yes, Cornell looked great today, but the Badgers didn't show up to play. Too many turnovers, awful play on the boards and too many open looks coupled with the fact that Cornell was lights out today led to an ugly, ugly loss.

[trwi7]

TooLiveBrew]So I guess Cornell is just another unimpressive 12 seed, huh?

Cornell was underseeded. Seriously though, when your ONLY Sweet 16 and Elite 8 appearances come from beating ONLY teams that were 10 seeds or lower, it says something.

 

[MJLiverock]

Leuer stays, Taylor running the show - They have some pretty good recruits coming in......I think this makes the team a little better. But Leuer needs to stay for that to be relevant.

 

TLB - Nankivil could get better, right? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Big Ten gets two into the Sweet Sixteen. Not bad. Korey Lucious from Michigan State (who hit the game winner) is from Milwaukee.

What recruits or underclassman can be counted on to provide offense? I think half the time Hughes looks so out of control is because they are hamstrung and playing 3 on 5 when on the offensive end and he is forced to well, force stuff. Evans, Bruesewitz, Jarmusz, are all very weak offensively, Wilson has very brief flashes but barely plays. When the team struggles they have no one on the bench to come in and provide an offensive burst. Evans keeps getting hype for raw talent but he does not impress me at all. He can sky and run but that is it. How many times does he get called for fouls for over the back or running into people as he is out of control. His shooting ability is pretty suspect as is his ball handling skills. Wilson is going into his junior year next year having barely played. Even a big guy like Bergerren who redshirted one year and was supposedly a good recruit barely gets on the court. Anderson coming in looks like another big tall guy who can't play considering he doesn't even dominate in high school in a pretty weak competitive environment. WI may have 4 guys over 6'10" next year who barely play or are just a guy. That's four scholarships eaten up by guys that don't contribute. If Taylor gets in foul trouble next year who else is a point guard?

 

I think this team will be in worse shape next year than this year's team. As soon as I started criticizing the make up of this team at the beginning of the year I got the old, "your're not a Badger fan" routine but I never thought they were a top 3 in the Big 10 team. The Big 10 has improved from Bo's early days and winning championships by "coaching up" mid major type players is going to be a whole lot tougher. Basically that is where I think WI is as a progarm, recruting like a mid major despite playing in the Big 10 and having great facilities and some banners in the rafters. Look at the other schools who offer scholarships to many of the guys that WI signs, mostly mid majors. WI isnt' beating out other Big 10 schools for guys lately, or even Marquette. This idea that Bo can do no wrong or that he is such a coaching genius is starting to bother me.

 

WI shot the ball pretty well today but still couldn't break 70 on the offensive end even with the other team running bit and not playing the slowdown game. Too many possessions for WI of passing around the perimeter for 20 seconds which seems to be their entire offensive set. Even when trailing by double digits they display no urgency to score. Zone defenses make it worse because they let WI swing the ball around the perimeter wasting time. Coming from behinid is more difficult because they have no press or trapping defense. Man to man for 40 minutes and nothing else, ever.

 

 

[TheCrew07]

I'm glad I turned off the game in the first half. That's all I have to say.

[TooLiveBrew]

So I guess Cornell is just another unimpressive 12 seed, huh?

Cornell was underseeded. Seriously though, when your ONLY Sweet 16 and Elite 8 appearances come from beating ONLY teams that were 10 seeds or lower, it says something.

I agree Cornell was underseeded, but I'm supposed to believe every single one of those other teams you listed wasn't?

[trwi7]

I agree Cornell was underseeded, but I'm supposed to believe every single one of those other teams you listed wasn't?

 

How about a 2-7 record against non double digit seeds in the tournament under Ryan? How about the only time they've ever made it to the Sweet 16 or beyond under Ryan is when they've beaten double digit seeds?

[Roscoe Chill]

Bo Ryan should be fired. Cmon dudes, Cornell couldn't miss, and the refs gave them that extra push that made a Badgers win pretty much impossible today.

Leuer is going to play in the NBA, however he is far from an automatic lottery pick this year, and probably will never be a lottery pick. I don't want to get in to next year, but I guarantee they'll be better than they're picked to be...again.

Hughes turned in to Kam Taylor 2.0 over the past month or so, not so crushed to see him gone. Leuer and Taylor show next year...with Duje Dukan future superstar getting his start.

[Oldcity]

Leuer will be back. He might be a second rounder this year, otherwise that's what he'll be next season. He can dominate the college game (at times), but he's not quick or athletic enough to come out early.

 

I can't really call this a great season. They wasted a very good regular season by playing their three worst games at the end of the season. The criticism of Bo's teams in the tournament is warranted.

[PeaveyFury]

Cornell was underseeded. Seriously though, when your ONLY Sweet 16 and Elite 8 appearances come from beating ONLY teams that were 10 seeds or lower, it says something.

 

Yeah, that you're going to ignore anything Bo accomplished to make your point. Other, better teams haven't had that success in the tourney over the last 10 years. The Badgers won those games against lower seeds, and lost today to a lower seed, then you toss out something absurdly arbitrary as "this 12 seed was under-seeded."

[trwi7]

What has he accomplished? A couple of Big Ten titles, underperformance in the tournament that actually counts and knocking down a couple mid-majors and a mediocre ACC and Big 12 team to reach the Sweet 16 and Elite 8. Yippee. I should be throwing praise at him for that?

[trwi7]

and the refs gave them that extra push that made a Badgers win pretty much impossible today.

 

Yeah, the refs made the Badgers defend terribly and not grab rebounds. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

 

[PeaveyFury]

What has he accomplished? A couple of Big Ten titles....

 

I should be throwing praise at him for that?

 

Yeah, actually, considering that he's won 3 Big Ten titles and a Big Ten Tournament Title in 9 seasons, when they won 0 in the 54 seasons prior to that. Nevermind turning the team into an annual contender each year in the confereftnce and becoming a high-profile team nationally after being a laughing stock for nearly 60 years prior.....

 

and knocking down a couple mid-majors and a mediocre ACC and Big 12 team to reach the Sweet 16 and Elite 8.

 

You act like the Badgers played these teams in a vacuum or something and continue to completely ignore that by definition, some of those teams got there by losing to good teams. Tulsa beat #4 Dayton. Bucknell beat #3 Kansas, NCST beat #7 Charlotte and #2 UCONN. K-State beat #6 USC, and Davidson beat #7 Gonzaga, and #2 Georgetown. The Badgers were playing and beating teams that had beaten other higher-ranked teams that couldn't actually pull off the wins themselves.

 

You also ignore the rest of Bo Ryan's tournament resume for whatever reason- three times, the Badgers have been ousted by one-seeds in the tourney in 2002, 2003, and 2005 (losing in a very close game to National Champion UNC after "playing a couple of mediocre teams").

In addition, they lost in the tourney to higher seeds in 2004, 2006, and 2009 (after upsetting #5 FSU, BTW). So in Bo's 9 tourney appearances, they've gone out to higher seeds in the tourney 6 of 9 years, including 3 times to one-seeds. Clearly, underperformance in the tourney when it actually counts.

 

The funny thing to me is that if the Badgers would have won today, you probably would have been using their wins over #13 and #12 seeds as another easy road to the Sweet 16 under Ryan, instead of spouting something about Cornell being under-seeded.

[Buckylovesbeer]

I lied before.......3 big ten teams in the sweet 16. Not bad at all.........now will they all fall in the next round? That could happen......this whole show is wide open this year!

[trwi7]

Yeah, actually, considering that he's won 3 Big Ten titles and a Big Ten Tournament Title in 9 seasons, when they won 0 in the 54 seasons prior to that.

 

And once again, I could care less about the Big Ten Tournament title. Is that what we're aiming for here?

 

You act like the Badgers played these teams in a vacuum or something and continue to completely ignore that by definition, some of those teams got there by losing to good teams. Tulsa beat #4 Dayton. Bucknell beat #3 Kansas, NCST beat #7 Charlotte and #2 UCONN. K-State beat #6 USC, and Davidson beat #7 Gonzaga, and #2 Georgetown. The Badgers were playing and beating teams that had beaten other higher-ranked teams that couldn't actually pull off the wins themselves.

 

Could these teams like Kansas and UCONN have not overlooked the Bucknell's and Tulsa's of the world? Could fatigue not also play a factor? You're playing a game every other day in the tournament, if you fight as hard as you can to beat a Kansas and UCONN who are far more talented, is it not possible to be fatigued for your next game? Sure the Badgers face the same thing of playing every other day, but they also play worse teams.

 

You also ignore the rest of Bo Ryan's tournament resume for whatever reason- three times, the Badgers have been ousted by one-seeds in the tourney in 2002, 2003, and 2005 (losing in a very close game to National Champion UNC after "playing a couple of mediocre teams").

 

Fair point.

 

In addition, they lost in the tourney to higher seeds in 2004, 2006, and 2009 (after upsetting #5 FSU, BTW).

 

One of those was basically a home game in Milwaukee and another was when Wisconsin was a 9 seed vs 8 seed Arizona (a game which they were blown out in, BTW).

 

The funny thing to me is that if the Badgers would have won today, you probably would have been using their wins over #13 and #12 seeds as another easy road to the Sweet 16 under Ryan

 

Well, you know what they say about assuming.

 

Once again, I don't think the Elite 8 run was impressive and I don't think either Sweet 16 run was impressive. And two of the last three years they've lost to a double digit seed in the tournament. Sorry, if I'm not impressed with that, if you are, that's fine.

[PeaveyFury]

And once again, I could care less about the Big Ten Tournament title.

 

Fine then, I'm perfectly happy hanging my hat on three Big Ten Championships when there were 0 in the previous 54 years. That IS what we're aiming for here.

 

Could fatigue not also play a factor? You're playing a game every other day in the tournament, if you fight as hard as you can to beat a Kansas and UCONN who are far more talented, is it not possible to be fatigued for your next game?

 

NC State had 4 or 5 off-days between beating UConn and playing the Badgers. And the point remains that the Badgers actually won the games.

 

 

One of those was basically a home game in Milwaukee

 

Against the #3 seed Pittsburgh, the Big East champions that season, IIRC.

 

And two of the last three years they've lost to a double digit seed in the tournament. Sorry, if I'm not impressed with that, if you are, that's fine.

 

I'm certainly not happy about the last three seasons, as I'd prefer to see them in the Final Four every year. But for you to imply that Ryan's total tournament resume is poor or that he shouldn't be praised for his successes as you clearly did earlier in this thread is unfair, inaccurate, and completely absurd.

[jrodbrewcrew]

I agree, Bo should be fired.

 

Would any of you really rather go back to 15 years ago when the Badgers were a .500 team? Sure, Bo hasn't made a Final Four yet, but I don't see another coach that I would rather have. Maybe that's just my opinion though.

[trwi7]

I'm certainly not happy about the last three seasons, as I'd prefer to see them in the Final Four every year. But for you to imply that Ryan's total tournament resume is poor or that he shouldn't be praised for his successes as you clearly did earlier in this thread is unfair, inaccurate, and completely absurd.

Perhaps, but name another team that advanced to the Sweet 16 twice in the last 10 years by beating only double digit seeds. Name another team that advanced to the Elite 8 by only beating double digit seeds? I don't think it's unfair at all. Would the Badgers have beaten Kansas or UCONN had they advanced? Chances are no, since Ryan has only beaten two teams that weren't double digit seeds since he's been coach, his first NCAA tournament game as coach beating 9 seed St. John's and last year against 5 seed Florida State.

 

I don't think it's unfair, inaccurate or absurd to say until a Ryan coached team consistently or at least more than two times in nine years beats a single digit seeded team. I'll leave it at that.

 

[trwi7]

I agree, Bo should be fired.

Who said he should be fired?

[logan82]

Wisconsin pretty consistently underplays their seed in the NCAA tournament year after year under Ryan. I think he is a good coach but I am not sure it translates well into the tournament. or against teams that play zone defense.

[trwi7]

Wisconsin pretty consistently underplays their seed in the NCAA tournament year after year under Ryan. I think he is a good coach but I am not sure it translates well into the tournament. or against teams that play zone defense.

 

Exactly and a great point was made on another board that it's the swing offense. The swing offense is great for the slow it down, grind it out game. In the tournament however, teams are one and done and they know it. They play with a sense of urgency while the swing offense is slow and methodical. If the Badgers get behind, they don't go away from the swing offense which makes it difficult to come back.

 

And how awful was Hughes today? One of his worst games as a Badger.