The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 2)

[Brewcrewin07]

Relax people, Hardy will NOT be included in the deal:

 

 

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/07/04/forget-the-hardy-rumor.aspx

[TooLiveBrew]

Good. That was just silly. (imo)

[WisconsinSportsRule]

I'd be surprised if they signed him to an extension. Even with a payroll approaching $100 million, paying anyone $20 mil/year is a huge chunk, and possibly a hindrance.

That's the thing - I don't want to pay ANY pitcher $20 mil a year for his decline phase. I don't want to roll the dice on this year alone either.

 

We've got a window no shorter than this year and the next 3. If we re-sign Sheets or Sabathia, I'd rather offer a ludicrous premium in the hopes that one of them might take a shorter extention. I'd pay $25 mil a year for 3 years much more readily than $20 mil for 5 or 6. I don't think either would be interested in that kind of extention though, because they can get a 6 year deal from somebody.

 

I can't trust the org after the Linebrink deal last year. I'm worried Melvin has somehow totally missed the fact that NOBODY gives up multiple premium prospects for rentals or expensive vets anymore. EVERYBODY values cost-controlled talent correctly now, even the Yankees.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head with that paragraph. If we do trade for CC, I will fear what we will have to give up. I got a bad feeling that DM will get desperate like last year and think this is the only year we can contend. (which may be true, but unlikely)

 

If we include Hardy in this deal, I will be furious. There's a difference between giving up prospects and proven major league talent. Hardy has proven that he can be a great infielder and is starting to heat up. Not only would giving him up be terrible, the platoon that would replace him would cause more trouble than ever. I don't want to see Counsell or Hall starting everyday.

[logan82]

No Hardy, good deal. I would prefer LaPorta to Gamel simply because I think there is a spot for Gamel next year.

[ELCABALLO45]

Thank god Hardy is not in the deal.

[JoeHova]

I'm not so worried about giving up JJ because of Escobar's allegedly fantastic defense and JJs wild inconsistency. I'd rather give up Weeks and move JJ to 2nd (where his lack of range would hurt less) though. Escobar and JJ would probably be an excellent combo up the middle. Of course, they'd probably blow it and move Escobar to 2nd instead so JJ won't cry like he normally does when he doesn't get what he wants.

[splitterpfj]

Some of you have stated you'd hate to see Counsell or Hall at SS for the rest of the year. It sounds like it won't matter now, but Olney had stated more than once that the team was ready to call Escobar up and use him right now. I believe that would happen if Hardy or Weeks were dealt.

[DannoMac21]

Everytime I get back to the house, I end up checking this forum right away hoping to see something. I want this to happen so bad.

[sbrylski]

Is there going to be anything more to say when this deal actually go through? We'll all say the same things we've already said here, only it won't be speculation anymore.

[TooLiveBrew]

Of course, they'd probably blow it and move Escobar to 2nd instead so JJ won't cry like he normally does when he doesn't get what he wants.

 

What are you talking about?

[RightFieldCoder]

I fear this will be just like the offseason when everyone was positive Rolen was going to be a Brewer. I'll judge the (maybe) trade when it actually takes place.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

I would guess JJ's complaints about hitting in front of the pitcher. I don't know if Joe's comment is entirely fair to Hardy, but I do think it is a sensible thing to be concerned about. The younger / newer guy nearly always has to play out of position in these situations, no matter how stupid a decision that is.

[DannoMac21]

I fear this will be just like the offseason when everyone was positive Rolen was going to be a Brewer. I'll judge the (maybe) trade when it actually takes place.

I think in a way this is an entirely different situation. St. Louis was just looking to get rid of an injury plagued Rolen, and their asking price was too extreme. Even some Brewers fans were unsure if they wanted to take the chance on Rolen, not only because of his injury issues, but also because of his poor attitude in the past.

 

The Indians are looking to trade one of the best pitchers in baseball. In this situation, the Brewers know what they're getting. They're getting a 19 win Cy Young award winning pitcher. Nothing to take a chance on here, when you almost know that he's going to make the team better. We had no idea how it would be with Rolen.

[endaround]

Why would Hardy agree to moving off shortstop a place where he can make 8 figures a year to 2B where he'll make mid to high 7 figures or 3B where he'd be a mid 7 figure guy? We're talking serious money here.

[Diggr14]

why would you move Hardy off SS to begin with at all?

 

Escobar has 16 errors in AA right now. He is not a defensive improvement on JJ Hardy. Hardy is a lot more consistent than Escobar at SS. If anything, you move Escobar to 2b... and move Rickey Weeks in a deal for CC.

 

Weeks+Taylor Green+Pena+Brad Nelson for CC.

[RightFieldCoder]

But there is a lot of fans unsure of how much to give up for CC. There is discussion of trading for a player. Lots of names are thrown around about who to give. There is information that a deal is nearly done. Last time the team went somewhere else (by signing Cameron) that nobody saw coming. I think the situations are very similar, just a difference in the quality of the player we want and the length of time we'll have him.

[The Ignitor]

Diggr14,

 

Those error numbers are highly misleading. Everyone, and I mean everyone, believes that Escobar is a significant improvement at SS (not a knock on JJ). He probably has more errors because he has tremendous range and gets to many more difficult balls. All scouts/baseball people say that Escobar will be a Gold Glove type SS, with the only question being whether he has a big-league stick.

[wallus]

why would you move Hardy off SS to begin with at all?

 

Escobar has 16 errors in AA right now. He is not a defensive improvement on JJ Hardy. Hardy is a lot more consistent than Escobar at SS. If anything, you move Escobar to 2b... and move Rickey Weeks in a deal for CC.

 

Weeks+Taylor Green+Pena+Brad Nelson for CC.

I'm sorry but if you can not spell Rickie Weeks name I do not trust your knowledge of their abilities.... just my thing.

[logan82]

Fields are not as good in the minors either. You get bad hops much more often in the minors.

[Brewcrewin07]

D'oh!!! The Dodgers are also now in the CC mix. C'mon Doug do not let him get away. Give them an extra piece if you have to.

 

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8313060/Dodgers-join-Brewers-in-pursuit-of-Sabathia

[pmallon]

what about including escobar and getting one of their bullpen arms Bentancourt or Kobayashi?

[sbrylski]

D'oh!!! The Dodgers are also now in the CC mix. C'mon Doug do not let him get away. Give them an extra piece if you have to.

 

Exactly what most of us are afraid of. Its borderline as it is, and extra piece would suck.

[olsonnet]

If we have to give up yet another piece to beat the offer of another team, we should get out of the bidding and let some other team make that bad trade instead of us. We're already giving up so much for what will likely only give us 2-3 more wins during the course of the rest of the year.

[ELCABALLO45]

Come on Doug!

[Brewcrewin07]

D'oh!!! The Dodgers are also now in the CC mix. C'mon Doug do not let him get away. Give them an extra piece if you have to.

 

Exactly what most of us are afraid of. Its borderline as it is, and extra piece would suck.

I'm not afraid at all. I do whatever I have to do to get it done. You don't think that privately, the Cardinals and the Cubs would absolutely have the fear of god in them with the Brewers trotting out Sheets and Sabathia every five days?? Unlike a lot of you here, I truly believe the Brewers are the best team in this division, and getting CC will further strengthen that. As far as the prospects they have to give up, who cares?? Worry about next year, next year. You try to win now, you never know when you will have this good of a chance again. You go all in. If the Indians call me right now and say "Doug, we've considered your offer and it's a tremendous offer, but we really need Escobar in the deal, and should you include him, we can have CC on a plane to Milwaukee tomorrow". I simply reply with "we have ourselves a deal".