The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 2)

[PeaveyFury]

I am going around to various message boards and it bothers me that fans of other teams think we would be mortgaging our future if we trade away some prospects.

 

BA ranked us the 21st best farm system in the league prior to the season, and as we saw in the Cleveland fan blog linked this morning, that means people are assuming the system is pretty weak.

[splitterpfj]

Andy LaRoche, 3B - 126 MLB at-bats, .222 AVE, .698 OPS, 3 HR. Minor league totals - 1796 ABs, .293 AVE, .895 OPS, 95 HR. Age 24, bats right, throws right

 

Chin-Lung Hu, SS - 136 MLB at-bats, .176 AVE, .500 OPS, 2 HR. Want to know why LA is dealing for a SS? Minor league totals - 2113 ABs - .298 AVE, 36 HR, .767 OPS Age 24 bats right, throws right

 

Delwyn Young, OF - 133 MLB at-bats, .286 AVE, .761 OPS, 3 HR. Minor league totals - 2706 ABs, .303 AVE, .871 OPS, 102 HR, Age 26, bats both, throws right

 

Andrew Lambo, OF - No major league experience. Minor league totals - 476 ABs, .309 AVE, .868 OPS, 14 HR, Age 20, bats left, throws left

 

LaRoche, Hu and Young have all failed to impress the Dodgers in major league trials. LaRoche is blocked by DeWitt, he still has value, but he can't be considered a stud prospect until he shows something in LA. Young is already age 26, and has managed to get himself 133 MLB at-bats. Hu, was signed as a teen and has been in the Dodgers system for several seasons. He failed miserably in LA, which is why they need to go get a SS right now. Lambo is years away from the major leagues, he is 20-year-old and has only 476 minor league at-bats to judge him by.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Our offer is 1,000 times better and it isn"t even close........ The dodgers farm sysyem is like he yankees... nothing but hype....... if Cleveland balks at our offer, offer the same package to kansas city for zach greinke

[molitor fan]

I know there are some that view the soon to be 25 year old LaRoche as a potential gem, but that Dodger offer really pales in comparison to what the Brewers are offering.

 

BA ranked us the 21st best farm system in the league prior to the season

 

This is a great point Peavey and one that should be addressed. Baseball America badly badly badly dropped the ball on this ranking, to the point that their reputation should be looked at as being sullied. If the scouts information is to be believed in regard to the quality of the Huntsville prospects, the Brewers system is at least top 5 and probably in the top half of that. This is something that should be addressed in some manner with the BA staff in a mailbag perhaps

[trwi7]

Which do you take if your the Indians. I must say I do not know much about the Dodgers system to be very opinionated on this.

 

Baseball America ranked LaRoche as the Dodgers second best prospect, Hu their third best prospect and Young their ninth best prospect. It's really hard to guage their values though. LaRoche and Hu have gotten callups and haven't been good at all. Young has performed decently but he's 26. How much growth does he really have left? Lambo is going to be 20 and is hitting .285/.341/.472/.813 in A ball.

I guess it really just depends on what the Indians think. If it was me I would take the Brewers offer (though I might be biased http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif ) based on them being younger and having more potential than the Dodgers group. I would also pause when looking at Hu, LaRoche and Young. All have had major league callups and haven't performed very well, maybe a change of scenery would help but there's always concern that their bad production wasn't a fluke and then you face the fans' wrath of "How could you not know they were bad? They were awful playing for the Dodgers! How could you trade the reigning Cy Young winner for them!" That would have to be the most concerning thing in the mind of Shapiro. At least he wouldn't have to worry about that with the Brewers offer.

[jjfanec]

I think the LaPorta, Green, and Cain trade is where it is at now that we for the first time seem to have matching reports for the JS and ESPN. There has been no mention of us adding another player lately, like the crazy Escobar, then Hardy rumors. If there is a rumor of us adding Jeffress to the list then my confidence that this is actually the deal goes down. It just seems like it has actually been pretty consistent for the last 16 hours. Lets get the deal done. I got on board with this trade for the first time yesterday because I want no part in giving up LaPorta but I am finally on the lets get this done train. If takes another day though I might jump off the bandwagon.

[splitterpfj]

I posted info on these Dodgers prospects a few posts up.

 

Cleveland, I dare you to take that offer instead of LaPorta, Green and Cain. Who are you trying to kid here?

 

Either there's some misinformation in the reported offers, or Cleveland is merely buying time.

[brewerfan0425]

I am tired of hearing people say that the Brewers would be "mortgaging the future" by making this trade. With Sheeter, in all likelihood leaving via free agency, the un-certaintity of Gallardo and his injury, the possibility of Fielder being traded, when is the future? This is the future, the window is closing. Fast. The Crew is 4.5 games behind a very talented yet beatable Cubs team, and 1 game behind the Cards who are winning with smoke and mirrors. Lets worry about the future later and focus on winning the whole thing.

[brewerfan0425]

The longer Cleveland waits, the less the offer will be

[Brewcrewin07]

The longer this goes, the more worried I become. As a Brewer fan, I just want this done so bad, and yet there is still something nagging at me telling me I am going to be incredibly disappointed and it's going to fall thru. I sure hope that isn't the case, but as a Brewer fan, you have to almost count on a letdown of some sort. Please, PLEASE get this done soon....like today/tonight soon. Not sure how much longer I can wait without completely losing my mind.

[NastyTwig]

Green and Cain are going to be studs once they leave Brevard County. This trade is going to suck. LaPorta by himself is better than that Dodgers offer.

[MoneyballMan]

I am going around to various message boards and it bothers me that fans of other teams think we would be mortgaging our future if we trade away some prospects.

 

BA ranked us the 21st best farm system in the league prior to the season, and as we saw in the Cleveland fan blog linked this morning, that means people are assuming the system is pretty weak.

I agree that this is the reason the casual fan of other teams are undervaluing our farm system. But if they had read closer, I believe BA acknowledged that the main reason for the lower rating is that we have Braun, Parra, Fielder, Weeks, Hardy, Hart, Gallardo in the majors and the the other highly rated prospects are lower-level at this point. If that AA team is kept intact, I guarantee (ok, I guess I can't do that) we'll be ranking top 5 before 2009. But you are correct in pointing out that the "general fan" out there just sees "21st ranked" and assumes our system is weak.

[splitterpfj]

I could see speculating on LaRoche, and you can add Lambo if you want to, but why would anybody want to add Hu or Young at this point?

 

That's really an offer for a #1 starter?

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

If we win the World Series even Weeks, Hall, and Dillon will have incredible value since they have World Series experience and are winners http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif GMs are easily manipulated into giving up a haul for World Series heroes.........

[PeaveyFury]

The longer Cleveland waits, the less the offer will be

 

They might be trying to see if we're bluffing with the 'deadline.' They might figure that if things aren't moving forward, we'd up our offer to close the deal.

[MoneyballMan]

As much as I hate losing LaPorta, I guess I'm firmly on the "let's get this done" bandwagon at this point. But as another poster pointed out, I may easily fall off that wagon if it doesn't happen soon. I would think Cleveland should be just as nervous about taking too much time and DM having more time to think about it and pull the offer. Either get it done now or it just may not.

 

Do you think DM really rolls the dice and does:

1. Maddux for TGJ

2. CC for LaPorta/Green/Cain

3. Hardy + for Broxton

 

Number 3 is just a figment of my imagination, but....would fill the 8th inning/future closer hole.

 

At least Stricker is making a run at the AT&T so I have something new to watch while waiting for this deal to get done!

[bklynbrewcrew]

Green and Cain are going to be studs once they leave Brevard County. This trade is going to suck. LaPorta by himself is better than that Dodgers offer.

 

This is exactly my point. We are aoffering far too much in this deal. laPorta by himself is far and away better than the Dodgers offer. Melvin is basically bidding against himself at this point and he is a big loser for offering up as much as he is. We are going to get totally hosed if this trade goes down. Please Cleveland take the LA offer because this is a terrible trade for the Crew.

[PeaveyFury]

They might be trying to see if we're bluffing with the 'deadline.' They might figure that if things aren't moving forward, we'd up our offer to close the deal.

 

If Cleveland is trying to call our bluff if they think it is one, I'd go out and grab Maddux for Gwynn/Crabbe and really make Cleveland start to sweat.

 

Melvin is basically bidding against himself at this point

 

The fact that the Dodgers have put together an offer shows that this is completely untrue.

[splitterpfj]

45,000 views of this thread.....we shoulda sold ad space.

[fondybrewfan]

Green and Cain are going to be studs once they leave Brevard County. This trade is going to suck. LaPorta by himself is better than that Dodgers offer.

This is exactly my point. We are aoffering far too much in this deal. laPorta by himself is far and away better than the Dodgers offer. Melvin is basically bidding against himself at this point and he is a big loser for offering up as much as he is. We are going to get totally hosed if this trade goes down. Please Cleveland take the LA offer because this is a terrible trade for the Crew.

Green and Cain and to a certain extent LaPorta are also incredibly blocked from getting to Big Leagues, we certainly can't assume Fielder will get traded. At some point you only need a certain number of prospects and right now we have an over abundance of corner outfield types. We already have stalwarts in Hart and Braun in the OF so we just don't have room in the next 2-3 years for all of these guys. So why not take a chance, do the CC trade, get the picks and start a whole new crop for when we start to lose the guys in Milwaukee? This seems like a perfect opportunity to take a gamble to me because the Brewers can certainly afford it prospect wise

[MoneyballMan]

45,000 views of this thread.....we shoulda sold ad space.

Or we should start throwing around really crazy stuff! Seriously, I think it's a testament to the guys who run/monitor this site and most of the posters that it's obviously viewed as a legitimate fan site (compared to many other fan sites that just toss around a bunch of garbage and are irrational about other teams' players/goals/needs/etc.). Everyone should be proud that BF.net is a credible, respected site.

[endaround]

Its also important to note that LaPorta's age makes him expire as a prospect faster than others. He's 23 now in AA, 24 in AAA and than at 25 his stock will plummet if not in the big leagues.

[brains and braun]

End, isn't the consensus that his bat is ready now? I can't say, as I know little about the minor leaguers.

[PeaveyFury]

End, isn't the consensus that his bat is ready now? I can't say, as I know little about the minor leaguers.

 

Yeah, 'not being in the big leagues' is more of a technicality than anything at this point, as if he gets traded to Cleveland, he'll be in the big leagues in 2008.

[endaround]

The point is the Brewers need to make a space for him or trade him in the next two seasons. Escobar has time, Gamel has another year, Salome as a catcher has a boatload of time, LaPorta really doesn't.