The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 2)

[MoneyballMan]

Maybe DM is just playing with us. Holding off to see whether BF.net implodes before he makes this deal..... we could only be so self-centered.....

Although someone brought up "increased ticket sales" as another reason to do this deal. I think that's a very good point. I have 1/2 of a season ticket plan with tickets to tomorrow's and Monday's games. And I'm now thinking of walking up to tonight's game because of the "buzz"! If they get CC, it's possible they could come close to selling out the remaining games (not absolutely, but we're talking big crowds the rest of the way)!

 

[KCBrewerfan34]

With the Brew solidly in the playoff chase, sellouts are going to be the norm the rest of the way, with or without CC. Of course he can't hurt.

 

 

GO BREW!!!

 

 

 

I'm guessing we hear something by Sunday night if we're going to get this guy. That should give Shapiro enough time to make the best deal. If Kershaw is being offered the Brew might be in trouble.

[RU Rah Rah]

I guess I'm wondering what the most likely outcome will be. Certainly, if getting CC guaranteed a playoff spot, I think you'd have to suck it up and pay the price. (The extra picks in the draft would mitigate the long-term damage.) But there is no guarantee of that.

 

Also . . . given how close the Brewers are to the WC currently, wouldn't it be possible to make the playoffs by adding someone less costly than CC? That way, you can have your cake and eat it, too -- you bolster the rotation and you keep your prospects.

 

Frankly, I would rather pick up Maddux for TGJ and then make some kind of Rickie-plus-whomever deal for Brian Roberts. I think the overall impact on '08 would be greater than just adding CC, and the long-term damage cost would be far less.

 

And, either way, the bullpen still needs work. Bringing in CC and then turning over his starts to that bunch of retreads seems pointless.

[TheCrew07]

The Dodgers rumor is bunk in my opinion. Why would they trade Kershaw for Sabathia when they can just sign Sabathia as a free agent and have both? The Yankees are pretty much in the same boat, ride out the year and aquire Sheets or Sabathia. When a team has that much money to spend they play under totally different rules.

[PeaveyFury]

Then LaPorta replaces Prince and we can contend for years to come.

 

Or, LaPorta comes up and is a huge disappointment like Weeks, making us wish we had gotten something in return for him when his trade value was high.

 

Let's not forget that AA prospects are NEVER sure things. Weeks was supposed to be a superstar.

[1992casey]

Hey, gang, please take a look at the board quote guidelines.

 

Thanks. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[trwi7]

One of the best comments I've heard about all these Sabathia rumors is this quote from an Indians fan.

 

if the brewers have all of these great prospects...maybe we should trade sabathia for their top scouts.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

 

 

[brosto1]

If some of the teams with guys like Greinke, Cain, Lincecum, etc... want LaPorta I think it is quite obvious he is available and they would be in contact with Melvin.

[Trowekamp]

if the brewers have all of these great prospects...maybe we should trade sabathia for their top scouts.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Yeah what would Jack Z and the top 2 scouts bring in a trade?

 

Sabathia, Harden, and Maddux?

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

No doubt, with little chance of signing Sheets or CC after this season...we should give Jack Z and his staff a nice raise to make sure they are in charge of those 5 early picks next year!!!

 

I also agree with one of the earlier posters...the kick to the trade is not only a better shot of making the playoffs, but a real shot of going somewhere once you get there. Maybe CC & Sheeter could be our version of Schilling & Randy Johnson.

[trwi7]

A possible ironic twist of fate?

 

Minneapolis _ With trade rumors continuing to circulate around C.C. Sabathia, you may have wondered who would take the big lefty's spot in the rotation if he was indeed traded. Well, the Indians provided themselves with an option today by signing right-hander Jeff Weaver to a minor league contract and sending him to Class AAA Buffalo.

Weaver, who helped St. Louis win the World Series in 2006 with three postseason victories, pitched this year with Class AAA Nashville, Milwaukee's top farm club. He was 7-13 with a 6.20 ERA in 27 starts for Seattle last year.

The 31-year-old veteran's last winning season came in 2005 when he went 14-11 and pitched 224 innings for the Dodgers. He's a former No.1 pick of the Tigers and has been in the big leagues since 1999.

Weaver may also give the Indians an alternative to struggling Paul Byrd, who lost his 10th game Friday night.

[MoneyballMan]

Then LaPorta replaces Prince and we can contend for years to come.

 

Or, LaPorta comes up and is a huge disappointment like Weeks, making us wish we had gotten something in return for him when his trade value was high.

 

Let's not forget that AA prospects are NEVER sure things. Weeks was supposed to be a superstar.

Amen, brother. I like LaPorta and his potential and would hate to lose him, but a prospect is a prospect is a prospect....

[Bambis Bombers]

brosto1

If some of the teams with guys like Greinke, Cain, Lincecum, etc... want LaPorta I think it is quite obvious he is available and they would be in contact with Melvin.

Makes you wonder if Melvin is leaking info to the press to attract some other offers and pressure Cleveland into closing the deal .

[MoneyballMan]

if the brewers have all of these great prospects...maybe we should trade sabathia for their top scouts.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Yeah what would Jack Z and the top 2 scouts bring in a trade?

 

Sabathia, Harden, and Maddux?

This is probably for a Jack Z thread, but here's my thought. Mark A probably needs a Team President (rather than management by committee), so he promotes DM to that position. And Jack Z gets his shot at a GM job - but here rather than somewhere else! I really fear losing him. DM is an organizational kind of guy who would probably work in the Team President role and Jack Z is the reason we're in the position we're in today. Keep 'em both!

[kramnoj]

And Jack Z gets his shot at a GM job - but here rather than somewhere else!

 

I don't understand why there is a push to take Z out of the role at which he excels and put him into a different role. I agree that Jack Z is phenomenal at his job. If I was Mark A, I would pay Z whatever GM's make because he is clearly valuable in his role but keep the current structure.

[splitterpfj]

From Buster Olney's blog:

 

One more problem for the Dodgers as they consider trades is that officials in some other organizations believe that the depth of L.A.'s prospects -- which was envied by other clubs for years -- is in regression. Rival scouts rave about the likes of Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp and Chad Billingsley, but the stock of Dodgers' second level of prospects (third baseman Andy LaRoche, infielder Chin-Lung Hu, etc.) has dropped in the eyes of some talent evaluators.

 

This is spot-on. To get what they want, LA will have to dip into Kemp, Kershaw, Billingsley, - the guys behind them in their system have really fallen in the eyes of scouts this season. LaRoche and Hu specifically have flopped in trials with the Dodgers, and DeWitt has been completely ordinary. This leaves the Dodgers in a tough spot to begin with, then when you realize they're trying to deal for a pitcher, and a shortstop, you realize - they don't have enough to get this done.

 

LA has to decide which position it needs to fill most, and then they have to find a deal without creating a new hole somewhere else on the major league roster. I honestly don't think they'll give what it takes for a big ticket player like Sabathia.

[obobo55]

I guess I don't get why people are upset about losing prospects so much in this deal. I like LaPorta and Green and think they will possibly be good ML players soon. OTOH, we got Green with a 25th round pick. LaPorta is a righthanded slugger who probably fits best at 1B. Cain was a 17th round pick. Now if it required a SS (Escobar), a C (Salome), a LH slugger (Gamel), or a P (Jeffress) I would be more upset. I actually think we aren't giving up much at all in this deal if the rumors are true, as we would be getting 2 comp picks in addition to CC's 3 months. While that may not replace LaPorta, I don't see a place for him in Milwaukee anyways unless you deal Hart. Sure, he could step in for Prince at 1B, but then you are losing a LH bat. I like our chances of either acquiring a different 1B or perhaps turning it over to Nelson if nothing develops.

[jhartzell2]

Here is what an Indians fan thinks they should get for CC. He is either overvaluing CC, or undervaluing our players.

 

http://theclevelandfan.com/article_detail.php?blgId=3410

[PeaveyFury]

I honestly don't think they'll give what it takes for a big ticket player like Sabathia.

 

That's probably true, but it also may be why Cleveland hasn't pulled the trigger yet on the Brewers' offer. If they can convince the Dodgers to offer up a guy like Kershaw, I'd put LA right there with the Brewers offer right now. I don't see them doing it either, but Cleveland has another day or so to see if they will or not.

[SoCalBrewfan]

That also illustrates one of the pitfalls of holding your prospects, as both LA teams have...while they're rocking in the minors, people can dream of Gamel and Laporta being Matthews and Pujols, but at some point it might become clear that they're less than that.

[And That]

He is either overvaluing CC, or undervaluing our players. http://theclevelandfan.com/article_detail.php?blgId=3410

Or he's insane:

1. Parra and Gamel
2. LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar (or Connor Gillespie, a good hitting OFer) and Jeffress (an all-prospect trade that probably won't help us much in 2009)
3. Braun and Gamel
4. Yovani Gallardo and Gamel or LaPorta (although I would obviously prefer Gamel)

Only Braun and Gamel? Count me in!

[PeaveyFury]

Here is what an Indians fan thinks they should get for CC. He is either overvaluing CC, or undervaluing our players.

 

2nd line of the 2nd paragraph:

 

The Milwaukee Brewers under the direction of GM Bob Melvin

 

Yay, credibility! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[trwi7]

Here is what an Indians fan thinks they should get for CC. He is either overvaluing CC, or undervaluing our players.

 

http://theclevelandfan.com/article_detail.php?blgId=3410

 

The Bob Melvin part had me laughing. The trade proposals he made had me crying tears of laughter.

[brewerjamie15]

I'm finally here. I've been following along for the thread and some great points have been made. At first, I was not too pumped up about what we would give up for Sabathia, but I've turned the corner and am leaning towards just about anything to get him here. I'd rather not see any pitching leave for pitching in return, and since hitters are easier to come by, I think I'm ok with saying good bye to LaPorta.

I am hesitant about the rental part only because it seems as if a few months of CC -plus- a couple prospects is not quite as golden as it appears.

To me, we get set back a couple of seasons. LaPorta is about ready and whom ever goes along with him will be close as well. Two draft picks will be well behind developmentally and therefore, unable to help fill voids left by Fielder, and anyone else we don't resign.

It was brought up only a few posts ago that Sheets, CC. and Parra would be pretty devastating for hitters to face especially considering two of those guys are lefties. I agree and almost salivate over the idea of going to a home stand and seeing those three all in a row.

[splitterpfj]

but Cleveland has another day or so to see if they will or not.

 

I think that's exactly right, Peavey, I'm sure Cleveland is just trying to wait them out, and probably the Phillies too. In the end, neither of these teams is equipped to match the Brewers' offer - without creating a brand-new hole in their roster.

 

Cleveland wants bats right now, while they've got some young arms. The Brewers are offering LaPorta, because they're loaded with power bats right now, the Dodgers would have to let go of Kemp, with no replacement in place - that's a completely different scenario. None of LA's infielders will sway Cleveland right now, they might take one in a deal, but those guys cannot be the centerpiece - that's Kemp, Billingsley, or Kershaw.

 

Dealing Billingsley or Kershaw doesn't make sense if you're trying to add an arm, and it doesn't match Cleveland's most obvious needs either. The Indians are looking for the best deal, and so far, the Brewers certainly look like the best match.