The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 2)

[davego]

Isn't part of the reason to have a stock pile of minor league prospects is to be able to deal a few from time-to-time to help out the big league club? Can't keep them all.

[lukevan]

Why would the Brewers not be even talking with Sheets about an extension yet trade for Sabathia and then sign him to a long term contract? That'd be a slap in the face to Ben Sheets and won't happen, CC has had a little injury history too and may be considered the riskier of the two going forward anyway due to his weight. Sabathia will probably get a little more than Sheets and will be more coveted in the FA market, making him even less likely than Sheets to be re-signed by the Brewers.

[Brewcrewin07]

Why not attempt to sign them both?? The money will be there. I do agree though that of the two, Benny is my priority.

[JumpinMacFlash]

Well, judging from his comments, I'm guessing that Sheets isn't interested in negotiating during the season. I honestly see no way Sabathia would sign a long-term deal, but that doesn't really bother me. I'd rather sign Sheets because he would probably cost less, and if healthy, would be equally productive. I think the team can sign one of them, and I think they would have it right, because I don't think Sabathia is worth $22-24 mil per year, but Sheets is probably worth $17 mil per year when healthy.

 

The last deal that Haudricourt reported doesn't bother me. Melvin is going to have to give something up, and I've just kind of accepted that. At least we're not talking about Scott Linebrink here. That deal really made me mad when I heard about it. If we're going to give up one of our top prospects, I'm more comfortable giving up LaPorta for Sabathia than I was Inman for Linebrink. The only thing that makes me kind of nervous is Jeffress not starting last night and not scheduled to pitch today either.

[strawbossisevil]

Dhonks, makes a good point. The money should be there for us to possibly sign both Ben and CC next offseason, but why even stop there. I would say let's let the season play out as is, and this offseason do the following:

All looks good, except LaPorta will be in Cleveland....

Nope, he wouldn't.

 

[MoneyballMan]

We better not have to wait all weekend without this either happening or not. Come on, DM have a little compassion for all of us morons who can't sleep until there's some closure here!! Either make this thing happen or ditch it and go grab Maddux for TGJ.

I would really enjoy the atmosphere at the game Monday night if CC is on the mound for us, though......

 

[MoneyballMan]

Haha well, Foxsports has a poll on their website and the leading vote getting on who will get Sabathia....?

 

The Yankees

That's crap, but not surprising in the least.

 

I'm sure all Cubs fans believe they're "entitled" to CC as well....

[bklynbrewcrew]

For an elite stud like LaPorta the Brewers need to receive a pitcher that we control past this season. Guys like Greinke, Billingsley and Cain meet this objective. Sabathia is not resigning with the Brewers and thats a fact. We arent going to pay a fat pitcher 20 million a year and outbid the likes of LAD and NYY for his services.

 

If these reports are right regarding other teams offers for CC we are way overbidding. Melvin is just way too eager to make this trade even at the cost of crippling our system. By keeping LaPorta and Green and trading for lesser pitcher we will still have every opportunity to make the playoffs. We can also resign Sheets and trade Prince this offseason for good young pitching like the guys I mentioned above. Then LaPorta replaces Prince and we can contend for years to come. Giving away 6 plus years of 30 HR production for 12-15 starts by Sabathia is nothing short of foolish and not the way to run an organization. Yes we all want to win now but we can do just that without mortgaging our future in the process.

[Trowekamp]

Well, judging from his comments, I'm guessing that Sheets isn't interested in negotiating during the season. I honestly see no way Sabathia would sign a long-term deal, but that doesn't really bother me. I'd rather sign Sheets because he would probably cost less, and if healthy, would be equally productive. I think the team can sign one of them, and I think they would have it right, because I don't think Sabathia is worth $22-24 mil per year, but Sheets is probably worth $17 mil per year when healthy.

 

The last deal that Haudricourt reported doesn't bother me. Melvin is going to have to give something up, and I've just kind of accepted that. At least we're not talking about Scott Linebrink here. That deal really made me mad when I heard about it. If we're going to give up one of our top prospects, I'm more comfortable giving up LaPorta for Sabathia than I was Inman for Linebrink. The only thing that makes me kind of nervous is Jeffress not starting last night and not scheduled to pitch today either.

Ok.. the Linebrink trade is a good reason why doing this makes sense.. let's see we traded for a bullpen rental and this season the Padres:

 

- Have relief pitcher with a 7.40 ERA

- 2 AA Prospects yet.

 

The Brewers got:

- 1/2 season with a sub-.400 ERA

- 2 Prospects

 

So the Brewers took a shot and at this point are not necessarily worse off.. In fact none of the 3 pitchers sent to SD may not amount to anything..

 

And for the people that can't understand why the Brewers are taking a shot how about:

 

- Their ace will be gone next year.

- Suppan will not be better

- Their bullpen is relatively ancient (Mota, Shouse, Torres, Gagne)

- It doesn't appear that Weeks and Hall will bounce back at this point.

- Cameron, Branyan, and Kendall are over 30..

- Prince is chubby..

 

Now with that said they still set themselves up for a decent future but they have a legitimate world series shot if they can fill in a couple of holes.. This is the CY YOUNG award winner... Remember when we were happy to hear about Zambrano going on the DL.. us adding Sabathia is the equivalent of Z being out for the year.. it has the chance of that much impact.

 

Roll the dice and let's play some October/November baseball...

 

[Brewcrewin07]

People have brought up ditching this deal and go for Maddux. My question is, why not do both, and strengthen yourself even more?? It wouldn't be for the same prospects so why not?? No harm in trading TGJ for Maddux as well as acquiring CC.

[Trowekamp]

For an elite stud like LaPorta the Brewers need to receive a pitcher that we control past this season. Guys like Greinke, Billingsley and Cain meet this objective. Sabathia is not resigning with the Brewers and thats a fact. We arent going to pay a fat pitcher 20 million a year and outbid the likes of LAD and NYY for his services.

 

If these reports are right regarding other teams offers for CC we are way overbidding. Melvin is just way too eager to make this trade even at the cost of crippling our system. By keeping LaPorta and Green and trading for lesser pitcher we will still have every opportunity to make the playoffs. We can also resign Sheets and trade Prince this offseason for good young pitching like the guys I mentioned above. Then LaPorta replaces Prince and we can contend for years to come. Giving away 6 plus years of 30 HR production for 12-15 starts by Sabathia is nothing short of foolish and not the way to run an organization. Yes we all want to win now but we can do just that without mortgaging our future in the process.

Would we trade Gallardo for a prospect like Laporta? I say no so why would other teams trade a young, established pitcher they control for a few years?

[MoneyballMan]

Well, judging from his comments, I'm guessing that Sheets isn't interested in negotiating during the season. I honestly see no way Sabathia would sign a long-term deal, but that doesn't really bother me. I'd rather sign Sheets because he would probably cost less, and if healthy, would be equally productive. I think the team can sign one of them, and I think they would have it right, because I don't think Sabathia is worth $22-24 mil per year, but Sheets is probably worth $17 mil per year when healthy.

 

The last deal that Haudricourt reported doesn't bother me. Melvin is going to have to give something up, and I've just kind of accepted that. At least we're not talking about Scott Linebrink here. That deal really made me mad when I heard about it. If we're going to give up one of our top prospects, I'm more comfortable giving up LaPorta for Sabathia than I was Inman for Linebrink. The only thing that makes me kind of nervous is Jeffress not starting last night and not scheduled to pitch today either.

Ok.. the Linebrink trade is a good reason why doing this makes sense.. let's see we traded for a bullpen rental and this season the Padres:

 

- Have relief pitcher with a 7.40 ERA

- 2 AA Prospects yet.

 

The Brewers got:

- 1/2 season with a sub-.400 ERA

- 2 Prospects

 

So the Brewers took a shot and at this point are not necessarily worse off.. In fact none of the 3 pitchers sent to SD may not amount to anything..

 

And for the people that can't understand why the Brewers are taking a shot how about:

 

- Their ace will be gone next year.

- Suppan will not be better

- Their bullpen is relatively ancient (Mota, Shouse, Torres, Gagne)

- It doesn't appear that Weeks and Hall will bounce back at this point.

- Cameron, Branyan, and Kendall are over 30..

- Prince is chubby..

 

Now with that said they still set themselves up for a decent future but they have a legitimate world series shot if they can fill in a couple of holes.. This is the CY YOUNG award winner... Remember when we were happy to hear about Zambrano going on the DL.. us adding Sabathia is the equivalent of Z being out for the year.. it has the chance of that much impact.

 

Roll the dice and let's play some October/November baseball...

 

 

Hehe....made me laugh a little bit (the Prince is chubby part). And he's not going to get less chubby the older he gets (and I speak from experience!)

[Trowekamp]

People have brought up ditching this deal and go for Maddux. My question is, why not do both, and strengthen yourself even more?? It wouldn't be for the same prospects so why not?? No harm in trading TGJ for Maddux as well as acquiring CC.

I agree.. that this shouldn't preclude a Maddux deal.. how about giving them TGJ and Errecart and seeing if you can get Thatcher back so we can stop complaining about the Linebrink trade..

 

[1e Corbeau]

I'd rather sign Sheets because he would probably cost less, and if healthy, would be equally productive. I think the team can sign one of them, and I think they would have it right, because I don't think Sabathia is worth $22-24 mil per year, but Sheets is probably worth $17 mil per year when healthy.

I agree with this sentiment, Sheets being more likely/preferable to CC long-term. That said, I don't know that paying any player $17M/per is ever going to happen with a $80-$100M payroll. I think Team Canada is more likely to go the retool route by trading a Fielder for a near-ready SP high-ceiling prospect in the offseason. This is why they are looking to go all out for a 3 mo. CC rental. They know next year might be a prep for 2010.

 

 

The only thing that makes me kind of nervous is Jeffress not starting last night and not scheduled to pitch today either.

 

BC only played one game of a scheduled DH on Thursday. Thus, Cody was bumped to Jeffress spot. Jeffress should pitch tonight, rather than Butler.

I'm wondering why Errecart came out. Nothing in the wrap.

[aracko]

Lets remember that the trade may very well be agreed upon but now the Brewers are negotiating with CC to see if they can get him signed to an extension.

 

The one thing thats for sure is that the Brewers will not trade away 2 top prospects for a half season rental. It wont happen. if this deal is made, an extension will be signed.

 

They need to get CC to Summerfest and get that extension signed.

 

I think I remember hearing about a 72 hr window that the Tribe would allow teams to negotiate with CC before a trade is made. Assuming this trade was agreed upon on Thursday night and the partys took Friday off to enjoy family, that puts us at Monday to either have a deal or start going another way.

 

I still think the best thing they could do is offer Prince straight up for CC.

[bklynbrewcrew]

There is a reason why teams dont give up elite prospects for rentals anymore. If Melvin is willing to trade LaPorta he should be making a deal similar to the one Tampa Bay made before the season when they trade Young for Garza. This gave them a great young pitcher that they control for six years. How would most of you feel if we made this same type of deal a few years ago and the prospect going the other way was Ryan Braun. Well LaPorta might very well be the next Ryan Braun and its very stupid to trade that potential away. Even the Yankees realize the value of cheap young talent and even they arent willing to give away players like Matt LaPorta for a rental. Lets hope this deal doesnt happen because it will be a serious blow to the future success of this organization.

[crossface21]

Trading away LaPorta is not trading away the future. He's only one player and there are quite a few more in the farm system that are rated very high. Also, let's not forget, he's a prospect, not a major leaguer. There is no way to tell how good he'll be. I was against the Brewers going after Sabathia, but if they can get away with only trading away 1 of the AA guys, and a couple others, I'm all for it. With the rotation up in the air for next year, this may be when the Brewers need to pull the trigger and go for it.

 

Also, all this talk about Maddux. If you can get him straight up for Tony Gwynn Jr., great. But please don't give the Padres any more than that and there would still need to be a deal done for a pitcher. Thinking that Greg Maddux could be the blockbuster trade to get you to the post-season is stupid. If you want to get him to replace Dave Bush, great. Have at it. Maddux still has flashes of greatness every now and then, but to seriously contend, we need to get a better pitcher than that for the top end of the rotation.

[crossface21]

Who plays first if we trade Fielder now? Move Hart to first and put Kapler in as a starter?? Platoon situation with Dillion and Rivera??

 

I'm not saying I disagree with it, I'm just curious on what the plan would be then.

[TheCrew07]

Why why why, do people keep saying this would only be a rental?? No one knows that the Brewers wouldn't make a reasonable attempt to sign CC. People need to get out of the Selig mindset. Antanassio is not Bud Selig. he has made it a point time after time to say that money is not an object and he is willing to pay whatever it is, to be competitive. There isn't a person on this board that knows for certain that CC would only be a rental, it's an assumption and nothing more. I do believe that Antanassio would have EVERY intention of making CC a fair and reasonable offer in the offseason. He's proven it before.

Why, why, why do people keep ignoring the fact that CC want's Santana money and that there are only 5 or 6 teams that will go 20+ for 7 years.

[MoneyballMan]

There is a reason why teams dont give up elite prospects for rentals anymore. If Melvin is willing to trade LaPorta he should be making a deal similar to the one Tampa Bay made before the season when they trade Young for Garza. This gave them a great young pitcher that they control for six years. How would most of you feel if we made this same type of deal a few years ago and the prospect going the other way was Ryan Braun. Well LaPorta might very well be the next Ryan Braun and its very stupid to trade that potential away. Even the Yankees realize the value of cheap young talent and even they arent willing to give away players like Matt LaPorta for a rental. Lets hope this deal doesnt happen because it will be a serious blow to the future success of this organization.

I think I agree - I really don't like giving up LaPorta. Don't get me wrong - I'd be very excited to see CC in a Brewers uniform (hopefully in the World Series), but I'm getting cold feet including LaPorta in the deal. One "reason" I've heard is that he's represented by Scott Boras - yet that shouldn't matter until 2015 or so!! If we're going to trade every Scott Boras client, I'd say there's a portly first baseman that higher on the list to be shipped out than LaPorta....

Has anyone heard any CC rumor that does NOT include us giving up LaPorta???

 

[kramnoj]

If Melvin insists on trading him we should be receiving a pitcher like Billingsley or Cain in return.

 

It's easy for us to say that, but those players may not be available. CC is the best pitcher that is on the market right now and there are other teams that want him. We can't compare what CC's value is to past deals, we can only compare his value to what the market currently is.

 

Why this organization is putting it all on the line for one shot is beyond me.

 

Because this is the last year that the Brewers will have Sheets. That they haven't offered an extension to Sheets indicates that they don't intend to make the neccessary offer to keep him once he becomes a FA. One of the formulas for success in the postseason is two dominant pitchers in a short series. CC is probably the most dominant pitcher that will be available for trade.

 

Instead we are mortgaging the future to take one shot and if we fail we will let Sheets go and have no pitching going forward. This is no way to run an organization.

 

It's true that our pitching will be weaker next year, but it's just wrong to say that there will be no pitching going forward. Besides, didn't you just answer your own question? The Brewers know that next season's staff will be weaker, which is why they want to go for it this year.

 

I should also mention that it appears the Brewers are the only team stupid enough to be offering an elite prospect like LaPorta for a rental.

 

LaPorta is probably the only elite prospect that doesn't have a spot on the parent major league team next year, and because of that he gives the best chance for the Brewers to get CC. I think LaPorta's availablility in this trade indicates that the Brewers don't have him in their plans next year. They don't plan on trading away Prince, they don't plan on moving Hart to center. If LaPorta isn't going to make next year's team better, he might as well give this team a better chance of getting to the WS.

[trwi7]

I'm sure all Cubs fans believe they're "entitled" to CC as well....

 

I saw one Cubs fan on another site say something like "I would offer anybody in the minors other than Vitters. That would surely beat the Brewers offer."

[MoneyballMan]

Lets remember that the trade may very well be agreed upon but now the Brewers are negotiating with CC to see if they can get him signed to an extension.

 

The one thing thats for sure is that the Brewers will not trade away 2 top prospects for a half season rental. It wont happen. if this deal is made, an extension will be signed.

 

They need to get CC to Summerfest and get that extension signed.

 

I think I remember hearing about a 72 hr window that the Tribe would allow teams to negotiate with CC before a trade is made. Assuming this trade was agreed upon on Thursday night and the partys took Friday off to enjoy family, that puts us at Monday to either have a deal or start going another way.

 

I still think the best thing they could do is offer Prince straight up for CC.

It would be like a super duper Christmas if they can get him AND sign him to an extension. Then I don't mind putting LaPorta in the deal. I just don't see the Crew being able to meet his $$ demands, though. He'd be in Cleveland long-term if this were the case. We're talking 7 years / $160-170, which we just can't/shouldn't pay.

[TheCrew07]

If you trade Fielder for Shields or a top prospect there's a hole at 1B that LaPorta fits into very nicely.

[jjfanec]

There is a reason why teams dont give up elite prospects for rentals anymore. If Melvin is willing to trade LaPorta he should be making a deal similar to the one Tampa Bay made before the season when they trade Young for Garza. This gave them a great young pitcher that they control for six years. How would most of you feel if we made this same type of deal a few years ago and the prospect going the other way was Ryan Braun. Well LaPorta might very well be the next Ryan Braun and its very stupid to trade that potential away. Even the Yankees realize the value of cheap young talent and even they arent willing to give away players like Matt LaPorta for a rental. Lets hope this deal doesnt happen because it will be a serious blow to the future success of this organization.

There are some major differences in the Young for Garza deal. Young actually had a full-year in the majors unlike LaPorta. Young was also a higher ranked prospect than LaPorta as a minor leaguer. He was 3,3,1, and 3 on the top 100 list his last 4 years. If you look at Garza's stats his first couple times up they were not that impressive. He was actually pretty hittable. I know he had a lot of upside, but if we traded for a guy like Garza but a little lesser of a prospect because LaPorta is a little lesser than Young we would not be getting a who ready to help us a ton this year. He definitely would not be a top tier starter.