The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 3)

[MoneyballMan]

What do you think it would take to get Broxton?

Hardy to LAD for Broxton (before they can include him in the deal for CC).

Edit: Took out long nested quote. As noted above a few times, do not quote the whole previous post, replete with previous quotes, if you do not absolutely need to. Thank you.

[TooLiveBrew]

Although Cleveland does need a closer. If the Dodgers do add Broxton to the deal, Cleveland has to take it and we'd need to tip our cap to Shapiro for pulling it off.

 

He's a good pitcher, and they could certainly flip him if nothing else. I just don't know if CLE has the pitching to contend again with their current core. Losing Sabathia is (obv.) a huge blow to their rotation.

[yfinn6]

If the Dodgers up their offer to include Broxton and Cleveland accepts, I hope Melvin is all over Cleveland to get Broxton. Broxton would be a nice consolation prize.

If Broxton is sent to CLE what makes you think they will ship him off immediately? If CC is sent to LAD, then any deal with CLE would be off probably.

 

[And That]

If Broxton is sent to CLE what makes you think they will ship him off immediately?

They aren't going anywhere this year and need bats for the future. He's not worth LaPorta but they might listen if we dangled Salome.

[logan82]

1. Parra and Gamel

2. LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar (or Connor Gillespie, a good hitting OFer) and Jeffress (an all-prospect trade that probably won't help us much in 2009)

3. Braun and Gamel

4. Yovani Gallardo and Gamel or LaPorta (although I would obviously prefer Gamel)

 

Wow, can't believe any of those would make sense to us. I would think any trade involving Parra, Braun or Gallardo would be outright ridiculous. Trading any of those 3 would seriously hurt us this year and in the future. The point of trading for CC is to make us stronger.

[crewcrazy]

I'm ready for it, and I've already changed the avatar to show it. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Losing LaPorta would stink, but the way I see it, he has a lower ceiling than Gamel does. I'd be fine with giving Cleveland their eventual Travis Hafner/Ryan Garko replacement if it meant the Brewers would gain another starter that goes deep into games and another couple comp picks. Pull the trigger on the deal and hope the Yankees finish as one of the Top 15 teams in baseball. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[yfinn6]

If Broxton is sent to CLE what makes you think they will ship him off immediately?

They aren't going anywhere this year and need bats for the future. He's not worth LaPorta but they might listen if we dangled Salome.

But they also need a closer for the future right?

 

[TooLiveBrew]

He's not worth LaPorta but they might listen if we dangled Salome.

 

Need some heavy-test line to dangle a fish like that. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif On Salome, how does he fit into the Brewers' plans if he isn't dealt? I've gotten the impression that he's very talented, but raw, and has a considerable amount to do to reach his ceiling. On top of that I've heard questions about whether or not he can stick as a C. On the other hand, Lucroy has appeared much closer to being fully developed... but also questions about the defense.

 

Am I recounting anything correctly in there? It seems a C prospect that looked relatively sure to both hit & stick behind the plate should net more than a RP (albeit a very good one).

[MoneyballMan]

1. Parra and Gamel

2. LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar (or Connor Gillespie, a good hitting OFer) and Jeffress (an all-prospect trade that probably won't help us much in 2009)

3. Braun and Gamel

4. Yovani Gallardo and Gamel or LaPorta (although I would obviously prefer Gamel)

 

Those are from a Cleveland fan website. And the author indicated that he'd "settle" for #3. How nice of him, huh? These are all ludicrous.

[berniebrewer4life]

yfinn6 wrote:

But they also need a closer for the future right?

 

Depends on if they are doing a 2 year rebuilding plan, or a 5 year one. If it's a longer plan, there is no reason for them to keep him on thier roster, when they can keep building more minor league talent that will be ready in time for the 5 year plan.

[craigharmann]

Who is Connor Gillespie? Did we get him in the Bill Hill trade?

[ELCABALLO45]

Everyone who got mad that the Brewers team was not good enough this year, I would hate to see you guys as Dodger fans.

 

The Indians are not going to get a better offer then LaPorta, the guy can rake. If the Indians are dumb enough not to accept that well, I feel bad for the fans.

[brains and braun]

You don't build around Broxton, though he's good if you're CLE. No games to save if you can't score enough to ever have the lead.

[Brewcrewin07]

FWIW, here is a link to what I believe to be the best Indians message board. To their credit, most of them understand LaPorta is better then anyone else they could get from anyone else. There are some delusional posters, but a good majority seem to really understand what is going on.

 

 

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=264&f=2046&t=2606205

[MoneyballMan]

So what are the odds that CC is on a plane headed to Milwaukee? Slim to none, I guess. Another day has almost come and gone without the deal being done..... and the Cubs are beating the Cards 2-0. I was hoping the Cards could take 2 of 3, but I guess this may at least get the Cards out of the way once and for all. I just can't wait to see the Cubs and Cardinals fans' reactions after we have CC in the rotation!

[MoneyballMan]

Brewcrewin07: I do agree with you. I was making fun of a few posters over on the Clev fan site, but for the most part the posters seemed pretty civil (and even a couple were complimentary of Milwaukee and the Brewers and were wishing us luck).

[yfinn6]

Who is Connor Gillespie? Did we get him in the Bill Hill trade?

Combination of TLB and Cole Gillespie. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

I understand the 2 or 5 year rebuilding plan, but I guess I just don't see the Indians as a team that needs to rebuild. IMHO losing CC won't hurt them that badly where they need to rebuild, they still have good pitching and an above average offense assuming some of their players rebound to form.

[Brewcrewin07]

MoneyballMan, you sure are positive this is going to happen. I like the way you think, I just fear the longer this goes, the less likely it becomes. I want this to happen so bad, that I fear being let down. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks for sharing that link, Brewcrewin07. Just on the lead page, I found two successive posts that lend credence to you calling the site fair:

 

"If we get LaPorta we probably don't get much else."

 

"Personally, I'm OK with that. I'd rather have a player like Laporta and a lower level prospect (or two) than the compensation picks we'd get for letting CC walk.

 

Of all the prospect names being bandied about, Laporta interests me the most."

 

That makes me feel better that we're not just being homers & over-valuing our guys.

 

 

EDIT: Combination of TLB and Cole Gillespie. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

Nicely played, yfinn. Conor Gillaspie (Wichita State) was taken by the Giants with the #37 overall pick in the June 2008 draft. I think you're crossing the streams there, craigharmann. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[DHonks]

Just curious, when did LaPorta sign? I remember him holding out longer than anyone expected. Then he had to rehab an injury. But Laporta cannot be traded until he's been under contract for 1 year. I don't believe he's been under contract for a year yet, although we could get around that by declaring him the PTBNL

[MoneyballMan]

MoneyballMan, you sure are positive this is going to happen. I like the way you think, I just fear the longer this goes, the less likely it becomes. I want this to happen so bad, that I fear being let down. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

Maybe I'm delusional! I agree that the longer it drags out, the less likely it will happen. It sure seems like they had a deal in principle a day and a half ago, but now are shopping the deal around. I would expect DM to do the same thing if the roles were reversed, but it just makes me nervous being on this side this time. I just hope when he's ready to trade Prince that he shops til he drops!

[MoneyballMan]

Just curious, when did LaPorta sign?

I believe a previous poster indicated that he was good to go a few weeks ago.

[PeaveyFury]

Just curious, when did LaPorta sign?

 

June 25, 2007, so the one year rule is not applicable.

[TheCrew07]

On Salome, how does he fit into the Brewers' plans if he isn't dealt? I've gotten the impression that he's very talented, but raw, and has a considerable amount to do to reach his ceiling. On top of that I've heard questions about whether or not he can stick as a C.

Angel's bat has always been his ticket, he has a ways to go defensively. Even though he has a cannon for an arm guys take bases on him like crazy, which to me means he needs tons of work on his footwork yet. Don Money noted yesterday that Angel still calls a pretty poor game as well, he doesn't set up hitters very well apparently. I've beat the Salome drum pretty loudly this year because he's hit so well and hasn't gotten much national pub... but as much as I like him he might be better off personally if he were traded to an AL club where he can DH, because his bat is fantastic. Pretty much the same way I feel about Fielder, I really like them both, but they will probably have better careers in the AL.

[TooLiveBrew]

Thanks TheCrew. Is Salome a special bat in general, or is he just a special bat at C? His smaller build (stocky/ripped, I know) makes me wonder if he could produce well enough to justify being a DH down the line. I guess that means that the question boils down to, 'Is Salome's defense good enough that he won't hurt you behind the plate?'

 

 

EDIT: I'm reading through the thread that Brewcrewin07 linked (nice to see you over there, trwi7 http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif ). Here's an interesting comment that might shed a bit of light on the proceedings (yes, it is just one fan's opinion...):

 

"One criticism I have of Shapiro is that he moves too slowly.

Now, a good offer (I'm not able to evaluate it, myself) that expires (unless it's just a negotiating position) is the kind of situation where you would wish Shapiro was more decisive."