The CC Sabathia thread: Latest - CC a Brewer! (part 3)

[brains and braun]

Agreed, SF. I am not 100% sold on this thing, but what do we have for starting pitching in the future? Not much in the immediate pipeline. Gallardo is coming off a major injury, Parra is young, and Soup is ordinary. It's doubtful we find the help we need on the free agent market, and even if Fielder can be moved for a young stud pitcher, you're always just an injury away from having a very ordinary staff. I like the Brewers' aggressiveness. The teams I grew up on couldn't have dreamed of such a move, and I trust DM, Gord Ash, and of course, Jack Z. to make the most of our picks. Just some food for thought while we await the Indians' decision.

[MoneyballMan]

Then again right now I have about a 1.75 liter of Korbel in me so that might change by the morning. Still I don't like this trade.

I guess with 1.75 liters of Brandy, we'll need to wait a bit longer than 7am for any update from Crew, huh? If it was only 1 liter, he may already be up and changing his mind....

 

Anyhow, I'm still on board with the deal, but becoming more impatient. I really want to see him pitch for the Crew Monday night...

[igor67]

I could see why the Giants would say not to Cain and Lincecum publicly, but the Brewers could really give them a shot in the arm towards rebuilding a functional roster. How many games did we win with Sheets and one real big league hitter as our only real quality? We could easily give them two bats that could come in and play right away (say Nelson and LaPorta), and something like say Salome and Brent Brewer. For some comparison I dug up a 2002 top 100 prospects list. Imagine it's 2002 and we have been offered the following for Sheets. Keep in mind that you realize some of the players might not have ended up turning out. Mark Texieria, Josh Phelps, Christian Guerrero (yes I know we had him, but he's a good Brent comparable high risk high reward), and Erubiel Durazo. As a prospect package back in the day that would have been pretty huge. That kind of package should really appeal to a rebuilding GM. If not Bedard is probably a lot cheaper.

[MoneyballMan]

If not Bedard is probably a lot cheaper.

Bedard is more realistic as a Plan B than Cain or Lincecum. Have also heard Vicente Padilla, AJ Burnett, Randy Wolf, Greg Maddux. We could probably do Maddux for Gwynn almost straight-up and still go get one of these others.

[naivin]

I'd like to hang onto all of our prospects as much as the next guy, but I think some of you need to understand what this is about. If the Brewers are seriously looking at this trade, they are not trying to make the playoffs as many of us hoped for at the start of the season, they are trying to win in the playoffs, and win the World Series. Now, I certainly don't want to overpay any more han we have to (and I acknowledge that to make the deal at this point will require the Brewers to overpay somewhat), and there is a limit, but I guess the question is who better helps the Brewers win a WS - CC Sabathia this season, or LaPorta, Escobar, etc. 2-3 years down the road. The Brewers have demonstrated that they have no problem finding guys who can hit. They have not necessarily demonstrated the same level of accumen where pitching is concerned. Does it not seem logical that if you keep all the prospects, that when they are here in a couple years, we will be in the same position looking for pitching?

 

Beyond that, I will simply throw out names like Corey Patterson and Felix Pie - supposed can't miss prospects that the Cubs refused to trade. They never used those opportunities to improve the team, and ended up with two players that couldn't play and ended up virtually untradable. Not saying LaPorta, Escobar, etc. are more Pie and Patterson than Braun or Fielder, but it remains a possibility.

[tigerbrew]

I'm getting a little nervous about DM. This situation reminds me of last season, when DM caved in to Kevin Towers' demand and added Garrison along with Inman for Linebrink. That has turned out to be a mistake and I really hope that DM does not repeat the mistake. Stand firm to Mark Shapiro DM! Call his bluff, look for other alternatives too.

 

I'm already very uncomfortable with losing LaPorta and Green for the CC rental, no way will I improve on that offer, I'd rather walk away than make an awful trade. Now I think DM should reduce his offer to the Indians. If Shapiro wants quantity like the Phillies offer, I'm more than happy to replace LaPorta and Green with 6 lesser prospects.

[Patrick425]

This may have already been discussed, and I'm sorry if it has (I tried skimming all the posts in this thread, but I'm sure I missed some.). However, is there any chance of Sabathia making the AL All Star team this year? I don't follow the AL close enough to be in touch with who the pitchers for the AL AS game would be. I know he leads the league in K's and I'm not sure about other Cleveland representatives or what other candidates there are for the AL as far as pitching goes.

 

I guess what I'm trying to ask is could it be possible that they are waiting to see who is officially announced for the AL all-star game before they make a trade? Although I'm not sure what difference it would make, because I'm sure the Brewers are not going to wait (or at least I hope they won't) until after the AS game to make a trade for Sabathia. However, wouldn't it be kind of odd if he was named to the AL AS squad as an Indian and then traded to the NL? What would happen? I'm guessing that he would be pulled from the AS game and someone else would take his place. Has this ever happened before?

 

Again, sorry if this has already been discussed.

[endaround]

Cliff Lee is likely the start for the All Star team and its really doubtful the Indians get two starters from a crappy ball club

[Patrick425]

Cliff Lee is likely the start for the All Star team and its really doubtful the Indians get two starters from a crappy ball club

Ok, yeah, should have done a little more research before making my post. Didn't realize that Sabathia is not even the best pitcher on their team this year. However, I still wonder what would happen in the scenario I described (AS starter traded to another team or league before the AS game).

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

Personally, I would wait until the trading deadline to make a move. I'd hate to give up LaPorte and then have the Brewer's go on a 10 game losing streak and fall out of contention.

[Brewcrewin07]

Was really hoping we would've heard something by now. Little surprised we haven't actually. Still have to believe it will be today sometime though.

[MadisonBrewerBlue]

Melvin is probably at church right now praying

[moofnelson]

Personally, I would wait until the trading deadline to make a move. I'd hate to give up LaPorte and then have the Brewer's go on a 10 game losing streak and fall out of contention.

 

What if the Brewers go on a 10-game losing streak after the trade deadline? If they are going to make the deal, do it now. Therefore they would get extra starts out of CC. Anyway, it would be more unlikely that they would go on a 10-game losing streak with both CC and Sheets in the rotation. They are the kind of pitchers that prevent teams from long losing streaks.

[Yount19]

So is it off to Plan B? Ol' Buster on ESPN.com says we moved on to look at Bedard, Cain, Burnett, Harden, Blanton and Wolf plus an Indian Fan wrote this on the JSonline blog:

 

"According to 1100 am Cleveland sports talk radio

 

said his sources inside the Indians Front Office reported as LaPorta / Green / Cain for CC has been turned down by the Indians they are holding out for a LaPorta / Escobar / Green plus thought to be a A ball pitching prospect that the Indians also want. This was reported this morning and late last night.

 

If you go to other Brewers blogs you will see I already reported the players involved as well as that the Indians turned the deal down .

 

It is now thought that the Indians and Dodgers may be talking about a CC trade that would also include Peralta and Blake for Multipul players with the deal centering around Broxton and Dewitt"

[MoneyballMan]

If that's the case, hopefully DM has moved on to other options. No way I'd go to LaPorta/Escobar/Green. That's just silly talk.

[brewtank34]

If they really expect us to give up LaPorta and Escobar, then by all means drop out of the race. It's going to be interesting to see if DM counters w/Weeks in the deal to get CC and Peralta.

[PeaveyFury]

According to 1100 am Cleveland sports talk radio

 

While they could be correct, I'm extremely hesitant to believe anything considering how off-base a lot of the Cleveland fans have been with what they're expecting in return. I mean, they're seriously throwing around names like Braun and saying they should hold out for LaPorta AND Gamel. If their front office is on the same page with that line of thinking, then the two sides are (and should be) very far apart.

 

The other thing that makes me question the report is that Olney reports that the Dodgers really aren't in the running for Sabathia at this point.

[Hart Of Milwaukee]

Good Doug just cuz we have prospect depth doesn't mean we have to deplete it. Sadly, I think a good fit for this team would have been Lowe in LA just because he has the experience/ and the talent to be a #2/#3 and we wouldnt have to give up Gamel or LaPorta to get him (probably 2-3 of the mid range prospects aka Green/Ford/etc), but the dodgers just keep falling into 1st place. For CC Im fine with the Laporta/Green/??? package as long as Doug firmly believes this makes up a Championship caliber ball club and not just some way to get beat in the playoffs like the Cubs did last year.

[MoneyballMan]

Peavy, I think you're right. We should hold off before believing anything coming out of Cleveland sportstalk radio. They will have Braun back in the deal before long if we let them!

[mkm13]

The more I think about this trade the more I think it might be better to hang onto Laporta and Green and use them to trade for someone in the offseason. I am all for trading them for pitching but I am not sure this is the best time. We really limit what we can do in the offseason if we get rid of both Laporta and Green as our prospect depth will not be there like it is now. Basically, here are the 2 options (not counting the option of just keeping everyone):

 

1. Get CC, make a playoff run and lose both Sheets and CC in the offseason. This results in a great shot at the world series this year but leaves us somewhat thin with prospects and our starting pitching for next year would be really shaky.

 

2. Trade Laporta, Green, or another top prospect in the offseason for a good young pitcher who will be around for 3+ years. Instead of going for CC bring in a guy like Maddux or a solid reliever this year for depth this year that will not cost us much. You still have a chance at the playoffs this year but the chances of really doing something this year really goes down. But with the added young pitcher we would get for Laporta in the offseason could somewhat replace Sheets. Then with the return of Yovanni next year we would still have a really good chance of doing well next year with Yovanni, Parra, and the pitcher we traded for at the top of the rotation. When the rest of the AA prospects come up in 2 years our offense would be loaded and we would then have a very good rotation as well as Jeffress may be ready then as well.

 

I am not sure which option is better, but my point is this does not have to be "the year".

[PeaveyFury]

And actually, considering AM 1100 out of Cleveland has Rush Limbaugh on the air this morning, it really makes be doubt the report.

 

(Unless Rush's show now has a segment dedicated to Indians baseball)

[MoneyballMan]

And actually, considering AM 1100 out of Cleveland has Rush Limbaugh on the air this morning, it really makes be doubt the report.

 

(Unless Rush's show now has a segment dedicated to Indians baseball)

Nice. So now people aren't just making up rumors, they're making up fictional radio programs, too?!

[RU Rah Rah]

I am OK with Plan B, and a 2B, somehow.

[PeaveyFury]

Nice. So now people aren't just making up rumors, they're making up fictional radio programs, too?!

 

Yeah, it sure seems to be trolling. Not one of the 4 Indians message boards can confirm this 'report', as none have anything about the offer being declined or any report on Am 1100. I'm guessing it's just someone trying to stir things up.

[Madtown Bomber]

For the record ESPN radio in their little Sports Center parts just stated that Indians rejected the deal on the table from the Brewers but said nothing about whether or not if talks have stopped.