The Combined 'We're Trading Greinke' Thread (part 2)

[jjfanec]

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cards-in-the-market-for-pitching-help/article_dcb58688-cc13-11e1-bb54-0019bb30f31a.html

 

Shelby Miller anyone?

 

I love the upside but the fact that he is a character-risk and is really struggling this year scare me.

[NotTheFakeDrugBust]

Jaffe is predicting a package centered around Olt. Would certainly be fine with that.

[brewmann04]

I agree that DM would have to get a Major League ready Pitcher in Return especially losing Grienke.

[paul253]

Most of the teams involved seem to have at least one very good prospect to work a deal around except for Baltimore (assuming Bundy and Machado aren't available). Olt, Segura, Miller, Teheran, Castellanos, etc. I like our chances of coming away with someone good IF Melvin doesn't insist on major league talent in return.

[fondybrewfan]

I don't think a major league ready pitcher has to be mandatory. Yes we have spots to fill but I don't want to forego a better package just to get a guy we can plug in for 2013. You will have Gallardo, Fiers, Thornburg, and Estrada for sure in 2013. By no means is that a good rotation; but I don't want a trade package centered around an OK SP prospect just because they are ready to contribute now. That major league ready SP better be pretty darn good if you pass over someone like Olt or Segura

[jjfanec]

I actually hope Melvin doesnt get too focused on bringing back pitching. If we can get a couple impact bats or even one that would be huge.

[jerichoholicninja]

So let me get this straight?

 

We rail on Melvin for lack of developing impact pitching and only focusing on offense and now when he has a chance to add a major prospect to the organization everyone wants hitting. Personally I think he should take the best package regardless of position, but I'm confused at what some people are looking for based off of the comments about Melvin in other threads.

[trwi7]

I don't think it's that everyone wants hitting. I just want him to take the best package available. If that's two pitchers, fine. If that's two hitters, fine. Just don't take a lesser package because of the position that player plays.

[fondybrewfan]

All I was saying is if the best package he is offered doesn't include any pitching then you have to take it. Don't take a lesser package just because it includes a pitcher who could help in 2013.

 

Also I am comfortable that with the pitching prospects we have in the pipeline that we could field a pretty decent rotation in 2013 and beyond if only one decent FA pitcher is signed (Like a #2 or #3, not necesarily a Grienke type).

 

The Crew has some decent pitching prospects right now; but they are seriously devoid of impact power hitters at the AA and AAA levels. They have some potential there but certainly no headliners. Someone like Olt would immediately change that.

[jjfanec]

So let me get this straight?

 

We rail on Melvin for lack of developing impact pitching and only focusing on offense and now when he has a chance to add a major prospect to the organization everyone wants hitting. Personally I think he should take the best package regardless of position, but I'm confused at what some people are looking for based off of the comments about Melvin in other threads.

 

I dont think that any one is saying we want hitting over pitching. Simply that if a team offers an amazing package centered around hitting we need to take it. Our minor league pitching is much better than our minor league hitting - although that isnt saying a ton because our bats are pretty bad

[Raw Biz]

Dempster has had an xFIP between 3.69 and 3.76 in each of the last 5 seasons, so I would say he's better than a 4-5. Lohse is a little above 4 for the last two years. I wouldn't mind either as a stop-gap next year if we really needed it and if they'd take 1 year deals. Dempster would be a decent replacement for Marcum but as The Biz said, we'd still need to replace Greinke.

 

I don't want to give up on next year because I think even an 80 win team is worth more to the organization than saving $10-20M and winning 70 games. I know some may disagree with that but I don't want to go back to the days where we end up on everyone's no-trade list.

 

By the way, what's with the Looper references?

 

I'm not positive that Dempster will keep it up in his age 36 season. I'd consider him a decent #3. As for the Looper references, that was the first recent FA guy who came to mind who was thought of as a back-end starter. I didn't include Suppan/Wolf because they were thought of as front-end guys.

[And That]

The FanGraphs article mentions Ariel Pena, a player that the Brewers would surely have some interest in. He's similar in a lot of ways to Jimmy Nelson, though his sinker isn't quite as sinky.

 

If the Angels called with Segura, Cowart, Pena and a nugget like A.J. Schugel, the Brewers would have to listen.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in Cron as part of the package. He has big time power, but he's limited to first base where he's defensively just adequate, he's slow as hell, and his plate discipline in pro ball has been lacking for such an advanced college hitter.

 

And FWIW, if Baltimore isn't including Machado, I wouldn't deal with them. I'd rather have the draft picks and an outside chance at extending Greinke than Schoop/Delmonico and whichever MLB-failed pitcher they throw at us.

[Raw Biz]

And FWIW, if Baltimore isn't including Machado, I wouldn't deal with them. I'd rather have the draft picks and an outside chance at extending Greinke than Schoop/Delmonico and whichever MLB-failed pitcher they throw at us.

 

I agree that's not a great package, that's why I put them last. I figured I had to include some sort of package from them since they've shown interest. However, if the Brewers are looking at competing sooner rather than later, I don't think that'd be horrible since that package would probably help sooner than any draft picks.

[SRB]

I don't think a major league ready pitcher has to be mandatory. Yes we have spots to fill but I don't want to forego a better package just to get a guy we can plug in for 2013. You will have Gallardo, Fiers, Thornburg, and Estrada for sure in 2013. By no means is that a good rotation; but I don't want a trade package centered around an OK SP prospect just because they are ready to contribute now. That major league ready SP better be pretty darn good if you pass over someone like Olt or Segura

 

Agreed. Can't just forget about Rogers/Peralta either. The system can fill a rotation next year, so there's no need to take a lesser offer just for a 2013 contributor.

 

I'm more worried that Melvin will try to avoid the extremely weak SS free agent market and ask for some crappy utility guy as part of the deal (Robert Andino or somebody)

[adambr2]

“I think, respectfully, general managers don't call when you're eight games out (in the division), six games out of a wild card. They don't call but their let their interest be known in a different way. Their scouts will talk to our scouts and say, 'We're interested in somebody.'

 

The sin of spin. There are a total of 22 out of 30 MLB teams that are 6 GB or better from a WC spot.

[TheCrew07]

We rail on Melvin for lack of developing impact pitching and only focusing on offense and now when he has a chance to add a major prospect to the organization everyone wants hitting. Personally I think he should take the best package regardless of position

 

Well said. I'm on record as preferring pitching but I do fear what kind of pitching we'd get back, and I especially fear a bullpen arm. I'd rather get the best talent available rather than try to force our way into a SS or SP, I'd readily take potential impact talent anywhere with the exception of a relief prospect. We have plenty of fringey SPs from a results standpoint who would likely make nice BP candidates as their stuff would play up in the pen.

[dlk9s]

I am thinking just don't going to take anyone especially if its not going to help the crew I will keep him and roll the dice

 

Anyone have a translation for this?

 

There are courses in brewmann04-speak at your local Learning Annex.

[brewmann04]

Bottom line just better to keep Grienke than taking junk back in a trade.

[adambr2]

Sure, I agree with that. You're going to get picks for him, so if someone doesn't offer you something that is a slam dunk to be worth more than those picks, there's no reason to give in.

[torts]

where would we be had we never traded for Greinke and only traded for Marcum?

 

O'rizzi starting in the rotation

Escobar starting SS

Cain in CF (wouldnt have picked up Morgan)

Jeffress in the pen

 

oh, and no time with Yuni Benancourt.

 

for how far we got last season... can we take back the trade?

[jjfanec]

where would we be had we never traded for Greinke and only traded for Marcum?

 

O'rizzi starting in the rotation

Escobar starting SS

Cain in CF (wouldnt have picked up Morgan)

Jeffress in the pen

 

oh, and no time with Yuni Benancourt.

 

for how far we got last season... can we take back the trade?

 

Cain has been hurt all year so he would not be our starting CF. Jeffress would be worse than much of what we have in our bullpen. Escobar would be nice to have. His bat has been good this year but his BABIP is off the charts so his average will drop some. Still a better SS than we are running out there. Odorizzi would be great to have, but until he has a lot of major league success I wont regret the Greinke trade. 2 games from the World Series and Zach should bring us back some value in the trade market this year.

[jjfanec]

Looks like the Phils are going to offer Hamels a big deal before trying to trade him. Hope Hamels signs an extension leaving Greinke and Garza as the big names on the market.

[torts]

where would we be had we never traded for Greinke and only traded for Marcum?

 

O'rizzi starting in the rotation

Escobar starting SS

Cain in CF (wouldnt have picked up Morgan)

Jeffress in the pen

 

oh, and no time with Yuni Benancourt.

 

for how far we got last season... can we take back the trade?

 

Cain has been hurt all year so he would not be our starting CF. Jeffress would be worse than much of what we have in our bullpen. Escobar would be nice to have. His bat has been good this year but his BABIP is off the charts so his average will drop some. Still a better SS than we are running out there. Odorizzi would be great to have, but until he has a lot of major league success I wont regret the Greinke trade. 2 games from the World Series and Zach should bring us back some value in the trade market this year.

 

how do you know Cain would have even gotten hurt to begin with in Milwaukee. Just because it happened in KC doesnt mean it would have happened here.

 

and I was just playing around. I love the Greink. I am happy he is here and I hope that he signs here!

[jjfanec]

 

how do you know Cain would have even gotten hurt to begin with in Milwaukee. Just because it happened in KC doesnt mean it would have happened here.

 

and I was just playing around. I love the Greink. I am happy he is here and I hope that he signs here!

 

I like cain and he was the guy I was second most disappointed to see traded (after Odorizzi). I doubt Melvin would have handed the starting CF job to a rookie without having a veteran for competition. If I remember correctly Cain did have a couple injury issues while in the Brewer's system as well.

[jjfanec]

I am really intrigued by what Greinke could bring back. If the Brewers decide to sell I think they are in great position because a lot of teams could be buyers and some could be desperate (see Cleveland last year).

 

The Angels put a ton of money into their team and have more to spend, but anything outside of an ALCS or WS is a disappointment.

Texas has been so close and Greinke could put them over the top

Detroit needs another arm and after all their spending I could see them going big

White Sox always do something crazy

Baltimore might feel the need to make a move

Atlanta is in striking distance and has prospects

If the Brewers are willing to trade within the division St. Louis, Cincy and Pitt could all be looking at Greinke - although Cincy is probably set

 

All these teams could also look at Marcum if he can make a start or two before the deadline but I am not holding my breath