The Combined 'We're Trading Greinke' Thread (part 2)

[SRB]

Apparently Hamels made a comment today that he would consider returning to Philadelphia even if they trade him, so that's throwing more fuel on the fire that he'll be traded. Apparently Texas is seen is his likely destination, which we already basically knew. It's worth noting though, because Greinke's likely destinations are elsewhere then. If Texas gives up a big haul for him though, you have to think that'll improve the return Melvin gets for Greinke.

 

Angels rotation has been worse than expected. I wonder if Texas manages to land Hamels, it could make Los Angeles a new suitor for a Greinke trade? They have a very tradeable SS prospect (Jean Segura) and a pitching prospect with upside who isn't performing this year but who could contribute in 2013 (Garrett Richards). Maybe Greinke for those two plus another of the Angels BA top 10?

[trwi7]

Apparently Hamels made a comment today that he would consider returning to Philadelphia even if they trade him, so that's throwing more fuel on the fire that he'll be traded. Apparently Texas is seen is his likely destination, which we already basically knew. It's worth noting though, because Greinke's likely destinations are elsewhere then. If Texas gives up a big haul for him though, you have to think that'll improve the return Melvin gets for Greinke.

 

This is why they need to move Greinke now. Not oh we're going to see how we do after we play the NL Central for the 9 games out of the all-star break. If they go 5-4 or 6-3 in that stretch then you know they'll be oh let's see how we do until a couple days before the deadline and then before you know it all the teams that needed starting pitchers have them and the Brewers are left with no suitors. This is the year to be proactive in selling with the number of good 1-2 starters available. Hamels, Dempster, Garza, Greinke, possibly Shields. It's not like the Brewers are the only team with a great pitcher available and they can wait.

[torts]

would be awesome to trade Greinke for a ton of prospects, and have him re-sign with the Brewers 4 months later

[Invader3K]

would be awesome to trade Greinke for a ton of prospects, and have him re-sign with the Brewers 4 months later

 

I wish people would quit hoping for this scenario. It's extremely rare for it to happen in modern MLB. Greinke could go to the Rangers, help them win the World Series, and decide he's perfectly happy in Arlington. I would say that's a more likely scenario.

[torts]

would be awesome to trade Greinke for a ton of prospects, and have him re-sign with the Brewers 4 months later

 

I wish people would quit hoping for this scenario. It's extremely rare for it to happen in modern MLB. Greinke could go to the Rangers, help them win the World Series, and decide he's perfectly happy in Arlington. I would say that's a more likely scenario.

 

I wish people would stop raining on my parade

[JohnBriggs12]

would be awesome to trade Greinke for a ton of prospects, and have him re-sign with the Brewers 4 months later

 

I wish people would quit hoping for this scenario. It's extremely rare for it to happen in modern MLB. Greinke could go to the Rangers, help them win the World Series, and decide he's perfectly happy in Arlington. I would say that's a more likely scenario.

 

Hope is a good thing and this scenario isn't baseless. Greinke did sit in on the Brewers draft. The Rangers acquired Cliff Lee and he returned to Philly. Greinke has an independent streak which is part of the reason teams are a bit shy about him. I think they fear just that scenario. We may all hope the market for Greinke is hot, but I'm not sure it is. The bar is to get something better back than the draft picks. That's not a low bar. Teams that are waltzing into playoffs and think Greinke would help them in the postseason, might take a look at his lackluster performance there last year and have second thoughts too.

 

Rangers have lots of cash, but will have to find a way to pay Hamilton to keep him. I'm not sure they'd sink $250 to $300 million into 2 players, particularly Greinke and Hamilton combination.

[PrinceEatMeat]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19554344/angels-likely-to-join-the-race-for-greinke----if-he-becomes-available

 

Looks like the Angels are in. Let the speculation on a return package begin.

[jwill535]

I would think the bid would have to start with Trumbo and then go from there.

[logan82]

They will not trade Trumbo mid season in a playoff race.

[paul253]

What are the odds Segura can stay at shortstop?

[PrinceEatMeat]

I wonder if Garrett Richards would be a target? It's been speculated that Melvin wants MLB ready pitching. They don't really have any other pitching prospects that rival what teams like the Braves, Rangers, and Orioles have.

[PrinceEatMeat]

What are the odds Segura can stay at shortstop?

 

I know most people say he'll end up at 2B, but I'm willing to take the risk if he's attainable.

[RockCoCougars]

Orioles package that makes sense to me:

LHP, Zach Britton (BA #28 overall, pre-2011)

SS/2B, Jonathan Schoop (BA #82 overall, pre-2012)

LHP, Brian Matusz (BA #5 overall, pre-2010; has been horrendous, but could fill back of rotation with upside still)

1B/3B, Nicky Delmonico (got first-round money in 2011 draft; potential middle of the order bat)

 

To me that would be a very solid yet realistic haul. You get two very solid positional prospects to fill a system that is currently too pitching heavy, and you get two young pitchers that can slot into the rotation in 2013 (particularly important giving impending departure of Greinke/Marcum/Wolf) but who actually have prospect upside still, particularly Britton (who knows, maybe they can fix Matusz).

 

 

I don't want the Orioles scraps for Greinke. Either they part with Machado, who won't be ready until 2014 best case, or they will have to go to Plan B. I could care less what Baseball America thought of a guy when they were putting together a list. I've watched both Matusz and Britton pitch, and both are pretty much garbage- especially Matusz. Don't know much about the other guys, but like I said, I'm not taking scraps.

[Oldcity]

Yeah, teams aren't going to trade major players from their current roster when they're in a playoff race. Segura would be an exciting return; not sure if he'll be available

[SRB]

Orioles package that makes sense to me:

LHP, Zach Britton (BA #28 overall, pre-2011)

SS/2B, Jonathan Schoop (BA #82 overall, pre-2012)

LHP, Brian Matusz (BA #5 overall, pre-2010; has been horrendous, but could fill back of rotation with upside still)

1B/3B, Nicky Delmonico (got first-round money in 2011 draft; potential middle of the order bat)

 

To me that would be a very solid yet realistic haul. You get two very solid positional prospects to fill a system that is currently too pitching heavy, and you get two young pitchers that can slot into the rotation in 2013 (particularly important giving impending departure of Greinke/Marcum/Wolf) but who actually have prospect upside still, particularly Britton (who knows, maybe they can fix Matusz).

 

 

I don't want the Orioles scraps for Greinke. Either they part with Machado, who won't be ready until 2014 best case, or they will have to go to Plan B. I could care less what Baseball America thought of a guy when they were putting together a list. I've watched both Matusz and Britton pitch, and both are pretty much garbage- especially Matusz. Don't know much about the other guys, but like I said, I'm not taking scraps.

 

Machado is not a realistic return, particularly with other decent pitching available. The package I listed would be a very nice return, if anything it is too optimistic, certainly not "scraps."

[splitterpfj]

If it's the Angels, Segura and Richards sure look like the top targets from their system, but there may be one other wrinkle that would fit into the Brewers' stated objective.

 

Ervin Santana hasn't been much help to the Angels this year...if he had been, the Angels probably wouldn't be too worried about Greinke.

 

Santana is signed through this year, with a 13M option for next year, with a 1M buyout.

 

Santana's been all over the place in his MLB career, but he's definitely a guy who could pitch in Milwaukee next year...could he be one piece in a deal?

[Dollarbill13]

I agree that Machado isn't realistic. Fangraphs had a pretty good article about this yesterday. Justin Smoak was the only top 25-ish prospect (according to their rankings) recently traded for a starting pitcher rental at the deadline. Given the changes to the FA compensation, we're more likely to get like 3 top 250-ish prospects or be forced to take the picks. Like I said, I think SRB's proposal seems to be about that value. I don't know if I like Britton but Schoop and Delmonico would be a decent start and Matusz is more or less just a flier at this point.

[Hate those Rodents]

Would Segura, Richards, and Cron work for people? Segura moves to short. Richards hopefully works in our rotation. Cron I liked in the draft last year and wanted us to pick. He can be traded since its been over a year, right?

[SRB]

Would Segura, Richards, and Cron work for people? Segura moves to short. Richards hopefully works in our rotation. Cron I liked in the draft last year and wanted us to pick. He can be traded since its been over a year, right?

I think that return would be great. Maybe they could reach for Kaleb Cowart (3B) instead of Cron (1B/DH), given Hunter Morris's strong performance?

[RockCoCougars]

Machado is not a realistic return, particularly with other decent pitching available. The package I listed would be a very nice return, if anything it is too optimistic, certainly not "scraps."

 

To me, picking and choosing from an organization after they hold back their best prospects is taking scraps. Why would they want Baltimore's junk pitchers, neither of whom are good enough to pitch for them in the majors this year? Are we back to the Dean Taylor era and trading for Jamey Wright and Jimmy Haynes again? I bet both those guys were on B.A.'s prospect list at one time as well.

 

I'm leaning toward just taking the draft picks unless someone wants to move an impact guy. If that's not realistic, so be it. Draft well, and you will have your own 'Top 100 prospects' ...as Baseball America seems to fill this list out with guys based almost solely on draft status after they find those with the eye popping minor league numbers.

[Raw Biz]

I'm leaning toward just taking the draft picks unless someone wants to move an impact guy. If that's not realistic, so be it. Draft well, and you will have your own 'Top 100 prospects' ...as Baseball America seems to fill this list out with guys based almost solely on draft status after they find those with the eye popping minor league numbers.

 

Except the problem is I don't really have a whole lot of faith in how the Brewers draft, especially after Jack Z left. They usually draft for floor, not ceiling and I hate it. The past couple of years they've had multiple 1st round picks and could have taken a safe player and a high ceiling player. I really wanted them to take Guerrieri last year along with a college arm (I actually wanted Gray and though he's having a rough year, he's at AA as a 22 yr old while Jungmann and Bradley are in A ball).

 

Then this year I really wanted Joey Gallo, who has just been mashing so far. Coulter has yet to really do anything (I know its early but still), Haniger is likely done for the year, and Roache likely won't play at all. Some might argue that Roache is the high upside pick but I'd rather have taken Gallo who's younger and healthier.

 

Sorry for the little rant but draft picks aren't always certain. If you can get some guys who have already shown what they can do in the minors, you likely have a better idea of what you're getting and they are closer to helping out. I'm not saying to just take "scraps" as you put it but just because a team won't give up a top 5 prospect in all of baseball doesn't mean everyone else is a "scrap."

[SRB]

I'm leaning toward just taking the draft picks unless someone wants to move an impact guy. If that's not realistic, so be it. Draft well, and you will have your own 'Top 100 prospects' ...as Baseball America seems to fill this list out with guys based almost solely on draft status after they find those with the eye popping minor league numbers.

I'm not suggesting that Melvin & Co. make a deal based on reading the BA rankings in their offices. Obviously, they need to send the Brewers professional scouting staff to watch whatever players are in consideration and only make a deal if they like what they see.

 

I am only using BA rankings as a rough proxy for actual talent, because they are the closest we (non-professional scouts on the Internet) can get.

[brewmann04]

I am thinking just don't going to take anyone especially if its not going to help the crew I will keep him and roll the dice

[trwi7]

I am thinking just don't going to take anyone especially if its not going to help the crew I will keep him and roll the dice

 

Anyone have a translation for this?

[Raw Biz]

I am thinking just don't going to take anyone especially if its not going to help the crew I will keep him and roll the dice

 

Anyone have a translation for this?

 

I never understand what he says to be honest.