The Combined 'We're Trading Greinke' Thread (part 4)

[3and2Fastball]

Is there an "ignore" button on here? Last I checked

 

a) The Brewers don't play in the AL East

 

b) An incredible amount of changes can happen between now and April 2013: injuries on other teams, trades, player slumps, player breakouts

 

c) Every team in the NL Central are contenders for 2013, besides maybe the Cubs

 

Its a "lock"

[ninja33]

But really, for the most part no one disagrees with the fact that Greinke will take a lot of money elsewhere.

That is what most people are arguing with me. I wouldn't keep pushing the obvious facts if they weren't.

 

 

What people do disagree with is you saying they're not a contender in the future, completely contradicting yourself from about a week ago when you said they were an average bullpen away from leading the division.

 

Not a contender in the future = Braun only big star on team long term + weak farm system (as of now) + small/mid-market payroll team.

 

At the begining of this season the Brewers had a rotation of Greinke/Gallardo/Marcum/Wolf/Narv. Even with less of a batting lineup (I.E. no Prince) they still were contenders in a weak division with their strong rotation. The bullpen however single handedly took them out of contention. Next year, the Brewer rotation will not even have a true ace in it. MLB is a pitchers league now. Combine a average rotation with a average batting lineup and I don't see how they contend now or anytime soon.

 

Yes, but the argument is about what the rotation would look like IF greinke resigned (I agree, that's a gigantic if). There would be an ace there (him), and the rotation would be very similar to this year and last years. Offense would be similar, and then fix the bullpen. There, contenders like they could have been this year.

[lukevan]

I think people are just taking umbrage with your style of arguing on this board.

 

I wouldn't keep pushing the obvious facts if they weren't.

 

Everyone is aware of the obvious facts, no need to condescend. You are saying it is impossible that Greinke resigns here, others are saying it is not impossible. Difference of opinions I guess. I'd like to see the thread get back to the topic at hand: potential trade partners/returns for Greinke.

[adamds22]

So it is likely that Greinke has made his last start in Milwaukee this year, so who takes his spot in the rotation on Sunday? Do we just bump everyone up a day or who in AAA is scheduled to start on Sunday? Doesn't seem like Thornburg will be the guy since he has arm fatigue now. Thoughts?

[fondybrewfan]

There has been squat on rumors for Grienke this morning. DM must have locked himself in a room until he gets a deal done. I really don't see this going on past due. The purchaser would like to have Grienke fly in tomorrow so he can get atleast somewhat acclimated prior to starting Sunday. Although depending on who purchases I suppose Grienke's slot might not come until Monday or Tuesday which could push back the timeline for a trade.

 

The utter lack of rumors on this is just maddening. The Sanchez/Turner trade came without any warning at all; I think it will be similar here.

[Brewers ST920]

Yesterday, I was speaking with a few Texas Rangers fans (very knowledgeable ones) regarding possible trades. I can't recall if it was on here or Twitter, but Martin Perez and Justin Grimm have both been mentioned/suggested in a trade. All three said Perez and Grimm for Greinke alone was asking too much. Even though Grimm is rated as their #20th best prospect, some see him as their second best pitching prospect after Perez.

 

It could be the case of fans overvaluing their prospects, which everyone does, but I thought that was kind of interesting.

[fondybrewfan]

Can I ask what is so special about Perez? Obviously he is still extremely young (21) and is already in the upper minors but his results aren't all that great yet. Very mediocre K/9 & WHIP. I am not sure why he is ranked so highly by Baseball America (#31); can someone help me out? Justin Grimm looks like a pretty damn good prospect based on the numbers he is putting up and he also recently got promoted to AAA.

 

That could be two pillars of our rotation who are in AAA right now; but someone needs to convince me that Perez wil actually figure it out

[molitor fan]

The Rangers have a stocked system but their pitching at the top minor levels is perhaps not quite as mlb ready as they would like or be comfortable trading their top 2 for a pitcher they would have to replace shortly in Greinke. However, they are stocked to a outlandish degree in shortstops. They also have a 19 year old named Hanser Alberto that is one of the best ss prospects in the minors and an 18 year old named Rougned Odor that is an up and coming stud as well....it is amazing how well their ss pipeline is loaded.

[monty57]

Can you tell me why Zack would be interested in playing for the Brewers vs. a contending big money team? I'd really love to hear it...

 

Can you tell me why Braun signed basically a lifetime deal to play in Milwaukee when he probably could have played out the first deal and then signed a much bigger deal to play wherever he wanted, including at home in L.A. or Miami? Everyone has their own reasons for doing things, and apparently (even according to his friend Lucroy), Greinke likes it here.

"Greinke likes it here" oh please

 

If Greinke likes it here so much why didn't he sign that $115M offer?

 

Comparing Braun and Greinke is a joke. Braun has been a Brewer since day 1 in his MLB career and he choose he wanted to finish a Brewer, and by doing so, took probably way less money than he could have made going elsewhere had he waited till FA like Prince. He also could have gone to a repeat contender but choose not too. Who knows his reasons. Fact is, he screwed himself out of $$$ and more chances to contend for a title by making the decision he did.

 

Greinke has been a brewer for 1.5 years. He wanted off the Royals cause he wanted to win. He still wants to win. When lining up contenders, and who will contend for the forseeable future, the Brewers are hardly on the map.

 

Greinke's friends on the team say he likes it here. They may know something a poster on a messge board doesn't. He probably didn't sign the extension because he wants to test the market, and I can't blame him. As I've mentioned, if another team beats the Brewers' offer, he's probably gone, but I'm not absolutely 100% certain what offers will be out there this offseason. No one is.

 

I don't get why mentioning Braun is "a joke," unless it's just that it doesn't fit with your arguement. Every player has decisions to make. Braun decided to leave money on the table for his own reasons. Lucroy probably left money on the table. Matt Cain probably left money on the table. Greinke is testing the market, and I probably would in his situation as well. How long a player's been here or if he came up through the system isn't meaningful. Prince left, Braun, Hart and Weeks stayed. It's a personal decision, and you, me or anyone else doesn't know what's going on in Greinke's head. You assume what Greinke thinks and assert that as if you know what Greinke thinks.

 

He will probably get a better offer on the market than the Brewers can match. He may not. If the Brewers are near or at the top of the offers on the market, he could sign with them.

[ninja33]

Can I ask what is so special about Perez? Obviously he is still extremely young (21) and is already in the upper minors but his results aren't all that great yet. Very mediocre K/9 & WHIP. I am not sure why he is ranked so highly by Baseball America (#31); can someone help me out? Justin Grimm looks like a pretty damn good prospect based on the numbers he is putting up and he also recently got promoted to AAA.

 

That could be two pillars of our rotation who are in AAA right now; but someone needs to convince me that Perez wil actually figure it out

 

21, loads of potential with three plus pitches. I cannot convince you that he will figure it out, that's really really hard to do with prospects. But he's 21 and at a high level, so he has lots of time to figure it out. That's why he's special/rated so high.

[ninja33]

And for what it's worth, there's a pretty big difference of opinion when it comes to Perez. John Sickels had him at #85 in his midseason rankings, which was down from just #83 in the preseason. I still think he's more valuable than a draft pick, so I trade Greinke for him if he's the best centerpiece I can get (and I wait that out as long as I can).

[monty57]

Can I ask what is so special about Perez? Obviously he is still extremely young (21) and is already in the upper minors but his results aren't all that great yet. Very mediocre K/9 & WHIP. I am not sure why he is ranked so highly by Baseball America (#31); can someone help me out? Justin Grimm looks like a pretty damn good prospect based on the numbers he is putting up and he also recently got promoted to AAA.

 

That could be two pillars of our rotation who are in AAA right now; but someone needs to convince me that Perez wil actually figure it out

 

I may be wrong, but I believe Baseball America puts more empahsis on scouting-based analysis (look at "stuff"), while Baseball Prospectus puts more emphasis on stat-based analysis. Of course both would use scouting and stats, just a little difference on what gets weighted more. That to me would mean that Perez has good "stuff" and just hasn't had the results some stat-based analysis would prefer.

 

Of course, it could also be that he's working on a pitch or something and getting shelled while he tries to perfect it. Those things happen in the minors.

[3and2Fastball]

The Marlins are asking for 2 or 3 top prospects for Josh Johnson, so unless they lower their asking price he won't get moved before the deadline (per numerous reports on Twitter)....

 

Everything seems to be falling into place for the Brewers. Mike Olt & a pitcher, please

[fondybrewfan]

Thanks for the info. The prospect world is littered with guys with great stuff that never translates to good performance; I guess that is what would scare me with Perez. But he is only 21; you could definitely leave him and AAA all next year if need be. If Baseball America has him that high than obviously the guy has the arm.

[fondybrewfan]

The Marlins are supposedly asking for a Tiexiera like package. If that is what they are asking for; Johnson will still be on the team in August. Personally I think they would be stupid to trade him.

[3and2Fastball]

And the good news just keeps on coming:

 

Phillies plan to NOT trade Cliff Lee

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19668767/sources-phillies-plan-to-hold-onto-cliff-lee-through-the-deadline

 

Time for Doug Melvin to play some serious hardball.... I sincerely believe that the reason this is taking so long is that the Angels & Rangers are bidding against each other and Melvin is trying to get Profar. Doesn't mean he'll get him, but I think (guess) that is what he's trying to do

[splitterpfj]

Molitor fan makes a great point, from Andrus all the way down the ladder, Texas has several SS prospects. If the Brewers can get Olt or Perez as the centerpiece, they may be able to get a lower level SS with plenty of potential added to the deal.

[Sixtofan]

I know that it is not polite to comment on names but I think Rougned Odor is an awesome name and needs to be included in any deal with Texas

[splitterpfj]

Matt Garza will not make another start before the trade deadline, so I would assume that takes him out of the mix for any potential Greinke suitors as well.

[SRB]

Molitor fan makes a great point, from Andrus all the way down the ladder, Texas has several SS prospects. If the Brewers can get Olt or Perez as the centerpiece, they may be able to get a lower level SS with plenty of potential added to the deal.

Olt + Grimm + Sardinas!

 

Though I suspect Melvin wants a SP that can join the rotation in 2013, and I'm not sure how close Grimm is.

[ListachRides]

Molitor fan makes a great point, from Andrus all the way down the ladder, Texas has several SS prospects. If the Brewers can get Olt or Perez as the centerpiece, they may be able to get a lower level SS with plenty of potential added to the deal.

 

Couldn't agree more. The Brewers would be foolish not to at least ask the Rangers to throw in one of their seemingly bottomless stockpile of high upside A-ball middle infielders.

[gregmag]

I hope the Greinke deal gets done today. Twitter and MLB Trade Rumors have been major hindrances to my productivity these past three days.

You still have productivity to hinder? Showoff.

[yoshii8]

Is there an "ignore" button on here?

 

 

Yes, click on the poster you wish to ignore's name and then add them as your foe, I also had to look this up recently.

[molitor fan]

Gregmag, promise you will be around brewerfan after the Greinke trade to analyze it - always appreciate your insight.....I was looking through the Hickory A ball games and they are so stocked, they have to shuttle their SS prospects back and forth from game to game so they can keep up their shortstop reps......Odor and Sardinas on the team as 18 and 19 year old high quality prospects....nice to have behind Profar, which does not mention the 19 SS that hit .332 at Hickory before being promoted.....

[Warning Track Power]

What will Miami want for Olt?