2008 Vent Thread (part 2)

[RU Rah Rah]

Fielder v. Berkman might be slightly apples v. oranges, because of the age difference. But I'm not going to sneeze at LB's career 148 OPS+ v. Prince's 129, or the superiority of Berkman's glove. The dude can play.

 

(I think if you look at LB's first 3 full seasons in the majors, his overall numbers were comparable or even superior to what Prince's will be. Prince might not even significantly out-HR him over that span. LB hit 21, 34, 42 [for a total of 97], and Prince has hit 28, 50, 4+ [for 82 and counting].)

[ecjimg]

If they make Badenhop 0-2 7.20 look like Jake Peavy, I'll puke. Even if they make him look like Nelson Figueroa. Tonight is close to what youd call a "must win".

[jazzytrav]

For some reason, I'm already hearing the postgame conference and the words, "Badenhop is a great pitcher and he pitched a great game. What else can I say?"

[Fatter than Joey]

I guess right now it isn't cool to be positive.

 

I've said this a million times -- some people are hard-wired to be positive, some to be negative -- the problem becomes when one side wants the other side to change the way they are. I tend to be pessimistic -- I have no problem with people being optimistic -- just don't tell me "don't jump off a bridge", or that my reactions are "knee-jerk".

[bigredrobbo]

I guess right now it isn't cool to be positive.

 

I've said this a million times -- some people are hard-wired to be positive, some to be negative -- the problem becomes when one side wants the other side to change the way they are. I tend to be pessimistic -- I have no problem with people being optimistic -- just don't tell me "don't jump off a bridge", or that my reactions are "knee-jerk".

 

Relax, Francis

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

[DatHoser]

M - I - L - W - A - U - K - E - E B - R - E - W - E - R - S

 

No "O" to be found here. Move along, move along.

 

Fortunately, due to Cub Scouts, I was unable to watch the game. If I had, with the day I had yesterday, I'd be much more caustic. Be forewarned for the future,http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif unless this team actually picks it up soon. Oh, who am I kidding. (I know, long season, etc., etc. - this is the thread to blow off steam and that's what I'm doing.)

[Fatter than Joey]

Relax, Francis

 

And I have said this once, the only people I want telling me to "Relax" is FGTH.

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[brewman04]

I believe Ned gave a dirty look to Adam during his post game conference.I wonder if Adam Mac.

I believe this team had higher expectations than what was realstic. This team is about a 500 ball club maybe a few games over with a healthy Sheets and Gallardo.This team has alot of holes Hitting wise and i am not sure if prince contract has been a distraction but Both Billy Hall for the second year in a row had been very disappointing and JJ has looked lost at the plate.I think they both might be shopped along with Sheets if this team does not turn it around by July. I can see the FO getting Pressure from our Owner and Ned and his staff should be on the hot seat.

[Invader3K]

I did not tune into the game until the fifth inning (decided to play The Show on PS2 instead) and spent the rest of the game only casually listening as I brewed a batch of beer. I accidently let my wort spill over a bit on the stove. It was still time better spent than watching the Brewers game last night.

[Roscoe Chill]

The thing is though, TooLiveBrew, is no one is saying that the Astros are a playoff team. No one is saying that the Astros are even better than the Brewers. I just vented because a lot of people on this site dismiss them, but think the Brewers are better than they are. I think the Brewers are a lot more similar to the Astros than they are to the Cubs, or even the Cardinals. So my point was if the Astros should be dismissed, you should pretty much dismiss the Brewers as well.

 

Just because I would rather have Lance Berkman at this time (again, not factoring in any salary, age, etc) doesn't mean Prince Fielder is a bad player. I'm just trying to point out again that the Astros and Brewers are in the same boat, and not the totally different teams that this site tends to think. That's it. It's more of a depressing realization on our Brewers, nothing more.

[TooLiveBrew]

Sorry, moved the post.

 

 

That's why the thread exists and it's not in the Statistical Analysis forum, because when fans vent, it's usually emotion based and those venting didn't feel like checking a few graphs or spread sheets before venting some frustration.

Plus, it's not like there is a shortage of other threads where you can do just what you say you'd rather do, just talk baseball without all the frustrations that are guaranteed to exists in any vent thread on a sports forum.

 

Good points... very true. The pure emotion here gets in the way of objectivity at times. I have a hard time with that, but need to live & let live.

[logan82]

I guess right now it isn't cool to be positive.

 

I've said this a million times -- some people are hard-wired to be positive, some to be negative -- the problem becomes when one side wants the other side to change the way they are. I tend to be pessimistic -- I have no problem with people being optimistic -- just don't tell me "don't jump off a bridge", or that my reactions are "knee-jerk".

Yup, I understand that about people. Just don't expect me to like it.

[jazzytrav]

I've said this a million times -- some people are hard-wired to be positive, some to be negative -- the problem becomes when one side wants the other side to change the way they are. I tend to be pessimistic -- I have no problem with people being optimistic -- just don't tell me "don't jump off a bridge", or that my reactions are "knee-jerk".

Yup, I understand that about people. Just don't expect me to like it.

"Like" and "be tolerant of" are two different things. I get what you're saying, though.

[RU Rah Rah]

Paul Bako (!) now has as many HR as Prince. That is one bad month-plus, in terms of power numbers....

[xisxisxis]

Must be, since you fail to note that Berkman out performed a 22-y-o (hardly shocking), then got outdone by a 23-y-o (incredibly surprising, given Berkman's talent)... and then you're using roughly 100 AB to try to make some form of definitive statement.

 

I never made the assertion that it was reasonable to compare them year for year given their age differences, YOU DID: "If you think Prince isn't already a more dangerous hitter than 32-y-o Lance Berkman at this stage in his career, I don't think you could be convinced of anything you don't already believe." You made the comparison and you implied that if you didn't understand that Prince "isn't already a more dangerous hitter" than Berkman then you were biased ("I don't think you could be convinced of anything you don't already believe"). Fact is that Berkman has outhit Prince his first 2 seasons (again, OPS+ of 163 and 131 are better than 156 and 111). Your assertion is wrong. If I called you on it and you aren't happy then get over it. This is a message board and any comments you or I or anyone make are subject to challenge. I've posted here for many years and on ESPN before the move to BF and I constantly get challenged on statements I make and have to back them up. That's the nature of this beast. Years ago anyone with attitude who was clearly wrong would get jumped on by multiple people (there are a few moderators that will jump on you if you don't dot your i's or cross your t's, but they tend to only go after the people who aren't fully supportive of the Brewers), but these days there's a lot less meaningful debates here and one of the reasons I've been less inclined to post. Simply you need to back up your statements and if you can't then admit it and move on.

 

I know it's 'fun' and all to bash the Crew right now, especially when you leave out relevant details like the fact that both StL & Hou are playing way over their heads & the Brewers are well under theirs.

 

That's a straw-man argument. I never said that, nor implied that in my post. That is simply putting words in my mouth to deflect the issue.

 

I actually am not panicked by the current struggles. The offense will get going at some point. I am, however, less inclined to think this team has the talent to overcome the loss of Gallardo and the loss of all of our SP depth and challenge for a playoff spot. Any positive that I would have hoped from a poor start (Yost's firing) are gone because I am sure Melvin and Attanasion will give Nedly a pass because of the injury to Gallardo and somewhat to Sheets as reasons the team might not meet expectations this year.

 

Apparently, that's not a sign that things are likely to get grooving soon for the Brewers... it's a sign that every good player on the Brewers forgot how to be good! Where's my 'sky is falling' cap?!

 

That's pretty good hyerbole (I'm not sure what grade Geno would give you), but it's a bit of overplay for the little post I made. Try to focus it on someone who clearly is making crap up and not to someone simply because they disagree with you.

[TooLiveBrew]

EDIT: sent PM instead of clogging up the vent thread

[xisxisxis]

If the knee jerk reactions were confined to the vent thread it wouldn't bother me, but most new threads seem to be knee jerk threads.

 

Speaking as someone who understands jerks well http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif , there's a whole spectrum of negativity. I agree that we should reserve the Vent thread for knee jerk responses, but in other threads their needs to be a high standard than simply "the Brewers suck". However, we shouldn't expect that only the Vent thread is the place for criticism of anything Brewers related.

 

 

EDIT: sent PM instead of clogging up the vent thread

 

I replied.

[DougJones43]

I guess right now it isn't cool to be positive.

 

I've said this a million times -- some people are hard-wired to be positive, some to be negative -- the problem becomes when one side wants the other side to change the way they are. I tend to be pessimistic -- I have no problem with people being optimistic -- just don't tell me "don't jump off a bridge", or that my reactions are "knee-jerk".

I've even seen some people who are optimistic about almost everything else, but pessimistic about the Brewers. After 15 losing seasons (and then last year's tease), it's not hard to see why. I'll never understand people who feel the need to try and force "positive" thinking onto others (especially with something that has offered as much constant negative output as the Brewers). We can hope for the best, but assuming it at this point seems to be the more foolish of the two outlooks, IMO.

[stoutdude04]

This team seems to be running into the worst luck right now. Deep flys being run down, flares falling for rbis. Frustrating.

[markedman5]

Another day another mediocre pitcher made to look like Cy Young by the Brewers offense.

 

It really is unbelievable how bad we look at the plate.

[DougJones43]

This guy just tied a career-high for strikeouts, and the 5th inning isn't even over yet!!! When is this stuff going to stop happening???

[DougJones43]

22 straight scoreless innings...and counting. Yikes!

 

edit: At least that's finally over. You're welcome.

[brewmann04]

this team is a total mess ,and Bush is just a loser who should be sent back to the Minors and groomed to possible closer spot.

Their has to be changes comming Mark 80 Million dollar payroll is not worth the investment.

[Baldkin]

I can't wait until all of our bullpen's arms fall off in August because our starters all seem to have contracted Claudio Vargas Nibblitis.

[brewmann04]

At least the brewers hitters hit for vargas but you are so right about the poor starting pitching.

 

Brewers need to groom Bush as a closer IMO.

 

any Thoughts who will be gone first ( Skallan or Yost) that the big question

 

Weaver should be given a chance wherter it for Parra or Bush