2008 Vent Thread (part 3)

[sweepscc]

Melvin, you suck at bullpen assembly.

You don't fill your pen with guys coming off crappy years and expect Maddux and Ned to make them better.

[Dmiles23]

Since May 14, Mota has allowed runs in 8 of his 16 appearances with an ERA of 8.04. His inning today wasn't as horrible as it looks (2 ground balls) but he still isn't getting people out!!

[trwi7]

Melvin, you suck at bullpen assembly.

 

This is something that gets overlooked but you're absolutely right. Since he took over the Brewers have been 17th, 19th, 14th, 28th, 19th and are currently 19th in the majors in bullpen ERA. He's just terrible at getting a good bullpen together.

 

Also, who is willing to buy Mota a plane ticket out of town tomorrow?

[TooLiveBrew]

The only two seasons where it was really important how well the bullpen did were 2007 & 2008. I don't want Melvin wasting money & draft positioning in 2003-05. The bullpen could easily wind up being much better than 19th this season....

 

But to this point there's no denying that it's been rough.

[brewmann04]

Mota and the rest of the pen including Riske has been bad the last few weeks.I don't think starter is a bigger concern right now .It just might be the bullpen that get the first player added. I can see the Pirates comming to Miller Park and them sweeping us. This loss will really come back to haunt us if we miss a playoff spot.

[danzig6767]

Defensive shifts are beautiful when they work out and ugly when they don't. If Weeks is playing in normal position, the ball Ojeda hit is an easy DP and the Dbacks have a runner on third with two outs down 5-0. Weeks was playing up the middle though and instead it's an infield single, bases loaded nobody out. I understand why teams do the shifts and they make sense, but it's frustrating at times like today when they badly backfire.

 

As for Mota, it's his walks that always get me nervous when he enters the game. He still has good stuff, but is constantly getting behind hitters.

 

We've been burned so often gagging multiple run leads that i swear, i never feel safe regardless what the lead is. As soon as Arizona got the leadoff hitter on, instant nervousness set in.

[brewmann04]

it getting frustrating why the brewers can't hold big leads . Right now any not named Torres scares me when theyhe come out of the pen.

[trwi7]

The only two seasons where it was really important how well the bullpen did were 2007 & 2008. I don't want Melvin wasting money & draft positioning in 2003-05. The bullpen could easily wind up being much better than 19th this season....

 

But to this point there's no denying that it's been rough.

With all the talk in 2006 about the Brewers being a playoff contender it's very fair to put that in there as well. They finished 28th. It's very fair to use the bullpen management in Melvin's tenure against him, especially when we're trying to compete.

[TooLiveBrew]

With all the talk in 2006 about the Brewers being a playoff contender it's very fair to put that in there as well. They finished 28th. It's very fair to use the bullpen management in Melvin's tenure against him, especially when we're trying to compete.

 

But the 2006 Brewers finished roughly where they were projected to iirc. Point taken though.

[BrewCrewForever]

Mota. Boom, outta here.

[RU Rah Rah]

So this is what I get for picking up my kids at daycare after the eighth inning and taking them out to dinner. Holy smokes....

[Weirdos19]

The whole strategy that Ned used with Jackson up was idiotic. The odds of getting out of the ninth at 5-4 are next to nothing without loading the bases by walking Jackson. And, if they would be at DP depth, that single by Jackson would be an easy DP.

 

Plus, why not Stetter for two innings? He was being stretched out to pitch longer in AAA. No reason to give work to guys just for the sake of it. I can't begin to fathom why every reliever outside of Torres and Villy can only pitch one inning.

 

Ned would lose a game of Risk faster than a game of checkers. When he has to think, we lose in a hurry.

[trwi7]

This is from a Cubs fan on another board.

 

Today's game. 0 outs, up by 1 run, runners on 2nd and 3rd.

 

Yost decides to bring the infield in and try to get the runner going home on a ground ball.

 

What a normal or even decent manager does in this situation:

Walks the next batter to load up the bases.

Plays the IF at double play depth and hopes for extra innings.

 

What should have happened? A bouncer up the middle which would have turned into a double play and hopes for extra innings.

 

What actually happens? A bouncer up the middle that scores two and loses the game for the Brewers.

 

This is a game to be remembered coming down the stretch.

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/devil.gif

Unreal. I can't believe that clown didn't walk the bases loaded to create a force at every base and allow the infield to play at double play depth but instead, with second and third and the winning run at second he decides to play the infield in to try to get the runner at home on a grounder. Just terrible managing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[danzig6767]

Bullpen arms except for the elite ones are just so damn erratic. Hell, look at the Padres, Mike friggin Adams in 25 innings has a 2.45 ERA/1.05WHIP/.207BAA and a 30/8 K/BB ratio while we made what looked like a great signing in Riske and he's been terrible.

 

I do think Melvin can be faulted for signing Mota/Gagne after how poor they pitched last year, but it's amazing how up and down bullpens often are from year to year for teams.

[trwi7]

but it's amazing how up and down bullpens often are from year to year for teams.

But our bullpens have been below average Melvin's whole tenure. That could just be dumb luck but it looks like it's a terrible job of putting together a good bullpen by Melvin. You would think one of these years we would luck out and have at least a top 10 bullpen. Hell, back in 2001 I believe our bullpen ERA was 10th in the majors.

[hawing]

Mota. Boom, outta here.

It'd be nice if the bf.net "ban hammer" worked on actual Brewers.

[SeriesFinale]

My vent is that I'm embarrassed how much this one affected my mood and dealings with people this afternoon/evening. Time to let it go.

 

And in keeping with the last few posts, "Give me back my FAT! son It's not Ryan, it's Ryne"

[BrewCrewForever]

And in keeping with the last few posts, "Give me back my FAT! son It's not Ryan, it's Ryne"

 

Haha! That's right I know your a loyal clone like myself SeriesFinale. Both classic jungle "bites". How about "Can you dig it!"?

 

Sorry to get off-topic in the vent thread. But yeah I'm still venting on Mota. Boom, outta here!

[TooLiveBrew]

Just terrible managing.

 

This isn't even the first time this season that Yost has played that situation (runners on 2B & 3B, < 2 outs, late innings) that exact same way. He's just not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Jay Zahn]

but it's amazing how up and down bullpens often are from year to year for teams.

But our bullpens have been below average Melvin's whole tenure. That could just be dumb luck but it looks like it's a terrible job of putting together a good bullpen by Melvin. You would think one of these years we would luck out and have at least a top 10 bullpen. Hell, back in 2001 I believe our bullpen ERA was 10th in the majors.

Main reason the bullpen hasn't been up to snuff is the Brewers' sorry history of producing pitchers. I mean just guys who last in the majors for 100 games. The Brewers have been the worst in the National League in producing pitchers over the last 10 years. Probably worst in the majors. Who's come out of the system? Sheets is great, and we had De Los Santos (in 1998!), and De Le Rosa, who stinks but has at least hung around for a while. That's about it. Now Villanueva and Parra and Gallardo have come along, and presumably they'll have some good years, but we're still catching up.

 

Most of any pitching staff needs to be built through the farm system. You can have some trades and free agents and reclamation projects, but you can't build a whole staff that way unless you're the Yankees. The Brewers haven't produced anyone who has even been tried as a closer in the last 10 years! Turnbow doesn't count because he was just another organization's reject. It is possible, ya know, to have a pitcher come up through your system and be a closer - for years even. We did it with Plesac. But now we have no candidates so we have to go through this Turnbow-Cordero-Gagne-Torres cycle.

 

And the future still doesn't look good. Villanueva seems like he'll stick, I guess. Stetter hasn't established himself. That's it for homegrown Brewers in the pen. Gagne doesn't have a lot left, and who knows how many years Torres, Shouse, or Mota have left. It's an old pen, and not very good to boot.

 

Your system just has to keep churning guys out. Some will be good starters, some will be #5 starters, some will be failed starters and move to the pen, some will be in the pen from the get go, some will fill a roster spot for a season or a part of a season. Some will be traded and do their best work for another team. But you need to keep churning guys out. The Brewers haven't even caught up to where they need to be yet in pitching development.

[bucks2281]

I began work right when Gagne began the 8th inning. A half hour later, I check the score on my cell phone and see: "MIL 5, ARI 6" . I thought for sure Gagne blew it. Sorry, Eric. This has to be the worst loss of the Ned Yost era. This eclipses last year's meltdown(s) against Philadelphia, Texas, and the A-Ram walk-off job. 6 in the bottom of the 9th!? Can we please have Mota suffer some phantom injury? Despite his belief that he "made his pitches" and "got the job done", he didn't.

[TooLiveBrew]

The Brewers have been the worst in the National League in producing pitchers over the last 10 years.

 

I just don't know about that. I'd be willing to bet we're not the worst. It just always feels that way as a fan. Pitching is hard to produce.

[nate82]

. This eclipses last year's meltdown(s) against Philadelphia, Texas, and the A-Ram walk-off job. 6 in the bottom of the 9th!?.

Please don't remind me of that Philly game I was at that game and it was just heart breaking. Going for the sweep against the Phillies and it was looking like we were getting back on track and then bam Cordero couldn't even get the pitcher out.

 

[pitchleague]

The Brewers have been the worst in the National League in producing pitchers over the last 10 years.

 

I just don't know about that. I'd be willing to bet we're not the worst. It just always feels that way as a fan. Pitching is hard to produce.

yeah, look at the Pirates. Ugh, talk about some bad luck with some early draft pick pitchers.

 

[silversurferr]

I agree; each year we should be able to bring up SOME young arms to help in the bullpen. Stetter seems to be the only one this year. The lack of arms is compounded by Yost's over-reliance on mediocre veterans like Shouse, Gagne, and Mota. It's bad enough having them on the staff, but quite another to keep them in key roles when they routinely fail. Once again, as with Turnbow last year, you could see after one batter that Mota was going to self immolate. And then he brings in Shouse? That is just sad.