2008 Vent Thread (part 4)

[pebadger]

Funny. I think posts attributing the majority of fundamentally sound 58-win team's success in a superior league to luck are idiotic.

 

Fundamentals, like plate discipline, sound defense, and throwing strikes are the 162-game bane of teams that fail to make the playoffs by just a hair. Tonight's game featured bad luck and bad play by the Brewers in at least equal measure. They can and need to control at least half of that equation a bit better.

[Ennder]

Funny. I think posts attributing the majority of fundamentally sound 58-win team's success in a superior league to luck are idiotic.

 

Fundamentals, like plate discipline, sound defense, and throwing strikes are the 162-game bane of teams that fail to make the playoffs by just a hair. Tonight's game featured bad luck and bad play by the Brewers in at least equal measure. They can and need to control at least half of that equation a bit better.

 

If you honestly think teams never get lucky over a season you are a fool. Not saying that is why the Twins are in the running but if you are dismissing luck out of hand then you know nothing about baseball. The best team does not always win, luck does not even out over a full season and a few lucky bounces here and there is usually the difference between the wild card and sitting at home.

 

Tonights game came down to a few lucky bounces and the Brewers SLG coming with nobody on base. It happens but you move on.

[brewmann04]

Brewers hitters are a joke no discpline at the plate and tWeeks can't field to save his life. like most other posters said we seen the difference from a good hitting team and then you watch the crew. I am sorry if this is redundent but i am tired of this team letting their fans down.

[DougJones43]

The Cubs are a better team than the Brewers. And I'm not basing that solely on tonight's game (although tonight's game made me a little more sure of it). I hope the Brewers can sneak into the playoffs as the wildcard, but I really don't think that will happen.

 

The biggest difference between the Cubs and Brewers is that I don't think the Cubs would have as long of leashes for guys like Weeks, Hall, and Yost. Granted, the Cubs have more money to spend, but still - it wouldn't be expensive to play Branyan and Durham/Counsell, and it wouldn't have been expensive to fire Yost's sorry butt after the Boston series.

[young1]

How about we take a collection to run a half or full page ad in the Journal Sentinel, ripping all of the season ticket holders who sold their tickets to the highest bidder?? It seemed like almost everyone in the front few rows were Cubs fans!

 

I could hear them chanting, "Lets go Cubbies" at one time! ARRRGH!!!!

[DougJones43]

Tonights game came down to a few lucky bounces...

Throwing away routine balls, and making outs on the bases has nothing to do with luck.

 

[pebadger]

Ennder,

 

I agree with you 100% about luck. I've been close to HS sports enough to KNOW that luck is sometimes *everything*. And I agree with you that it makes a huge difference MUCH more often than people are comfortable with discussing in a world where we like to believe that things happen because we "deserve" them or "make them happen". That said, at some point a team does need to take responsibility for the things it CAN control or inprove upon. I think the Brewers, in most ways, "played harder" than the Cubs tonight. But they also played worse, and the Cubs got some breaks at the plate with flairs and nubbers and weird spins. Here we get back to the Twins. They might well be the luckiest team in the league this season, but they also seem to do well at consistently controlling the things they can control. I just wish this young, talented team the Brewers have would be a bit better at doing the same. It does seem to cut down on the "bad luck factor", or at least increase the "good luck" factor, at least to the extent that such a thing can be quasi-quantified.

[crewcrazy]

Sending Sabathia out for the 7th when he clearly didn't have it tonight was pretty dumb. Waiting until after the botched DP to take him out (with close to 130 pitches) was like letting Suppan pitch to Blum a second time yesterday. Just because you gave up Matt LaPorta for him doesn't mean you have to pitch him into the 7th inning against the Cubs when he was having a pretty rough game.

[Mike Felder]

Did Sabathia really have 130 pitches? I wouldn't know because naturally, in the biggest game of the year, the stat boards didn't work at Miller Park. Of course, they still showed advertisements just fine, but nothing that people were actually interested in. And they had Cubs logos up there in the normal stat spots during the entire game! What the heck?

 

For me, tonight was pretty much everything I've hated about the Brewers rolled into one. Fielders who can't make plays when it matters. Pitchers who can't throw strikes when it matters. Hitters who either hit a home run or have an absolutely pathetic at bat. Baffling manager moves, even if they didn't make a difference in the game (why have Shouse if you're not going to use him with 2 lefties in a row up?). Even when they managed to do something good (score 3 runs in the 6th) they did something bad (ran into two inexcusable outs on the basepaths). Ugh.

 

I'm sure I'll end up using my tickets on Wednesday, but right now I really don't want to.

[Ennder]

Tonights game came down to a few lucky bounces...

Throwing away routine balls, and making outs on the bases has nothing to do with luck.

 

 

Theriots bloop hit into RF in the 4th was luck. Soto's bloop hit in the 1st was luck. Fukudomes hit in the 7th was luck as if Weeks were one step more to the left it is a double play. The misplay by Hall was somewhat luck as the runner was probably out at 3rd anyway. The DeRosa single to SS was luck, if the ball is hit even slightly more to the left or right it is an out he hit it just perfectly. Baseball over a single game is over 50% luck based, that is why they play 162 games.

 

We made our share of mistakes too so it is hard to say we werent' at fault for the loss but this was clearly a game of inches where the inches happened to fall their way.

[trwi7]

Theriots bloop hit into RF in the 4th was luck. Soto's bloop hit in the 1st was luck.

 

Not really sure how these help your point. Neither of these had anything to do with run-scoring plays.

 

Fukudomes hit in the 7th was luck as if Weeks were one step more to the left it is a double play.

That's fine but we're also out of that inning with nothing if Weeks actually makes a throw which has nothing to do with luck.

[danzig6767]

Ennder wrote:

. Fukudomes hit in the 7th was luck as if Weeks were one step more to the left it is a double play.

True, if it was right at Weeks instead, it may have been a double play. On the flip side, if Weeks wasn't a poor defensive player, the ball would have been fielded and at least one out came from it. Rickie has made an art form at not making plays that are just barely tough enough for the official scorer to label it a hit.

Tonights game came down to a few lucky bounces and the Brewers SLG coming with nobody on base.

While it may not be 100 percent relevant in tonights game, but the lack of plate discipline is part of the reason for our offensive struggles at times, why our SLG comes with the bases empty, and why the Cubs score more runs than we do. The Cubs drew two key walks in the ninth that were the winning runs and is something they've done all year. It's pretty sad that a fly swatter power guy like Kendall has more walks than both Braun and Hart. Braun gets a lot of flack for his lack of patience, but Hart is even worse, Counsell has one less walk than Corey while only having 138 at bats compared to 400 for Hart. Hopefully pretty soon someone can get into his head so he realizes that it's ok to not swing at nearly every pitch.

[saget]

Grickie Gweeks strikes again

[TooLiveBrew]

Watching powerhouses like Braun & Hart draw fewer BBs than Kendall is just so frustrating. Braun's clearly doing well enough right now to not worry about it, but Hart is scuffling. I know he'll get back to it, but sure could use that reliable 5-hole hitter right now. Braun is clicking, Fielder is clicking, 'Hart clicking' would fit nicely there.

[PKBadger]

Hopefully pretty soon someone can get into his head so he realizes that it's ok to not swing at nearly every pitch.

 

Nor is it OK to give away a strike by faking a bunt and not having the sense to pull the bat back when it's not a strike.

Hart should be bunting approximately never, and giving the pitcher an 0-1 count is just absurd.

[1992casey]

Did Sabathia really have 130 pitches?

 

124 in 6 2/3 innings.

[ELCABALLO45]

Bill Hall vs. Rightys

 

.171/.231/.327

 

Branyan vs. Rightys

 

.290/.374/.710

 

If only there was a way that Hall could play only against leftys and Branyan could only play against rightys... Hmm...

[valpocrewsader]

They have Theriot, DeRosa, and Cedeno. We have Rickie "Worthless" Weeks. Game over. (I wouldn't have though so either, but here we are....)

[valpocrewsader]

I know back-to-back replies are discouraged, but this is two different thoughts. I want absolutely nothing to do with the backdoor, wildcard, cheapo, we're-not-as-good-as-the-cubs entrance into the playoffs. Give me the division or give me death. We're better than the northsiders, despite Yost's tinkering and general bass-ackwards stupidity (hopefully)....

[Bruce Ciskie]

Isn't Ray Durham on the team?

 

Is he hurt? Is it in his contract that he doesn't play on Mondays for religious reasons?

 

If not, then where the hell was he in the ninth when we needed someone who could make contact against Marmol, instead of whatever that was that Bill Hall was doing?

[BrewCrewForever]

Rickie Weeks and Walks. Those two things killed the Brewers tonight.

[Ennder]

Theriots bloop hit into RF in the 4th was luck. Soto's bloop hit in the 1st was luck.

Not really sure how these help your point. Neither of these had anything to do with run-scoring plays.

 

Fukudomes hit in the 7th was luck as if Weeks were one step more to the left it is a double play.

That's fine but we're also out of that inning with nothing if Weeks actually makes a throw which has nothing to do with luck.

 

I was trying to establish the fact that baseball games have a lot of little bloop type hits and grounders that barely make it through a hole. Weeks makes that throw a good 80%+ of the time, he just didn't tonight. My point was that this game wasn't one team dominating another because they were a ton better team as suggested earlier in the thread. There were a number of plays that could have changed the game and the majority of those plays were in the Cubs favor tonight. Over 100 games I still think one team wins like 52 or 53 of them and I personally can't say which team wins the most.

 

If you want to analyze a single baseball or football game then luck is going to play a huge factor when you are talking relatively even teams. You win some you lose some, hopefully we take one against Harden or Dempster.

[PeaveyFury]

I was trying to establish the fact that baseball games have a lot of little bloop type hits and grounders that barely make it through a hole.

 

This is the vent thread, which is not really the place to do so. People are allowed to come here and vent their frustrations about the game, not have a discussion about luck.

[JumpinMacFlash]

OK, I realize that it isn't realistic that CC will resign next season, but I'm kinda getting concerned about the high pitch counts that he's had. Can Ned honestly have him throw 120 every start and expect him to finish the season effectively? I don't see how he can continue to hold up if he keep getting this kind of workload. Maybe he'll help the team to the postseason, but if he can't pitch in it, they where are they?

[Postseason2006]

Let's end the Ri K experiment. For his great OBP last year, he was a horrific baserunner. He's a below average defender and a pathetic fielder. It's time to move on. A small market team like the Brewers does not have time to wait for Mr Potential to put it together. You can't teach intelligence to a player.