Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 2)

[And That]

Ned doesn't seem to like us very much.

 

From JS Online . . . .

 

 

"There was no Internet or this other stuff they have today, with the dissection and the message boards and everything where every pitch is dissected nine different ways, and the people who really missed their calling and should have been major-league managers," he said.

Or in his case, people who really missed their calling and ended up being major-league managers.

[trwi7]

Ned doesn't seem to like us very much.

 

From JS Online . . . .

 

 

"There was no Internet or this other stuff they have today, with the dissection and the message boards and everything where every pitch is dissected nine different ways, and the people who really missed their calling and should have been major-league managers," he said.

Or in his case, people who really missed their calling and ended up being major-league managers.

 

I'd love to see a cage match between Yost and our Resident Hipster.

[And That]

Ned doesn't seem to like us very much.

 

From JS Online . . . .

 

 

"There was no Internet or this other stuff they have today, with the dissection and the message boards and everything where every pitch is dissected nine different ways, and the people who really missed their calling and should have been major-league managers," he said.

Or in his case, people who really missed their calling and ended up being major-league managers.

I'd love to see a cage match between Yost and our Resident Hipster.

I would Yost Yost so hard he'd think he Yosted himself.

 

[mikerollins]

This is great news. The whole reason I quit posting on this site (for good) back in July is because of the constant unjust criticism of Ned Yost. It's embarassing to associate and have commentary with people who don't "get it".

[moofnelson]

This is great news. The whole reason I quit posting on this site (for good) back in July is because of the constant unjust criticism of Ned Yost. It's embarassing to associate and have commentary with people who don't "get it".

 

Yeah, dude, you and Yost are the only people in Wisconsin that "get it." You can go away again.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Saying "Yost is fine" is not the same thing as saying that "Ned is definitely returning next season". I hope that Attanasio is just saying kind things about Yost because he knows the team hasnt been eliminated yet. If Attanasio is serious about keeping Yost it just shows that he is completely clueless and doesnt actually watch the games closely. As for Melvin I would be disappointed if he doesnt see that Yost has outlived his usefullness.

[davego]

Mark has spoken...So let it be writen, so let it be done.

[Brian the Automator]

This is great news. The whole reason I quit posting on this site (for good) back in July is because of the constant unjust criticism of Ned Yost. It's embarassing to associate and have commentary with people who don't "get it".

I think there are some people who just pound the anti-Yost drum over, and over, and over, and over, thinking that repeating their opinions more often will somehow magically transform them into fact, but I would stop short of insulting people by saying they don't "get it".

We should all use facts to back up our opinions, and not just insult people by implying they're naive, ignorant, or stupid.

[Invader3K]

I agree that I hope Yost keeps managing as he has this past month, for the most part. He's definitely been determined to win. It doesn't hurt that the players have been executing by and large, either.

[1992casey]

Saying "Yost is fine" is not the same thing as saying that "Ned is definitely returning next season". I hope that Attanasio is just saying kind things about Yost because he knows the team hasnt been eliminated yet. ...

Even though I've moved into the Nay camp, I sure hope this isn't the case. If our owner starts operating this way, I'd start worrying about a rudderless ship. Mark's given Ned two votes of confidence this season. I'd like to think these have more credibility than most votes of confidence.

[JohnBriggs12]

First of all, the criticism of Yost was not unjustified. He made many tactical errors managing this ballclub from questionable lineups, sticking with guys too long or giving up on guys too soon. The fact that he had explanations for his moves makes no difference. Of course he's going to have explanations. That doesn't make them the right moves.

 

I figured though that unless they finished under .500, Attanasio would not have the will to fire him (why this isn't Melvin's call is another topic). After all, Attanasio likes Ned. Remember the smiles after the dinner with Suppan last December? Ned has successfully ingratiated himself as a close associate with both Melvin and Attanasio. Melvin's future is tied to Ned too.

 

So I'm not surprised about this. Optimistically, I continue to watch to see if Ned learns from his mistakes. Sometimes I'm encouraged, as for the last several days he's gone with the lineup that should have been out there the entire month. But more often than not, as soon as you think he's finally got things under control, another move comes along that just defies logic.

 

If Ned can take the criticism and learn from his mistakes, we have hope. I don't think he'll ever be a great manager, but this team has a ton of talent that even an average manager should not be able to mess up.

[Fatter than Joey]

Even though I've moved into the Nay camp,

 

Glad to have you aboard -- you will get your welcome kit, and refrigerator magnet in the mail in 4 to 6 weeks.

 

Mark's given Ned two votes of confidence this season. I'd like to think these have more credibility than most votes of confidence.

 

I tend to agree with you Casey -- I don't think MA would give a VOC a week before the end of the season, knowing he may have to backtrack rather soon.

 

I think that about the only thing that could possibly happen where Yost doesn't return, is if Mark A, steals Bob Melvin from the Dbacks because he wants to tell his friends that he hired the Melvins to run his team, because he is just that cool.

[1992casey]

I would think that deciding on the managerial position would be Melvin's job, too, JB. However, as owner, Mark has a right to speak up. If something he says publicly turns out to be a surprise to Doug, then there'd be a big problem.

 

So far, I've seen nothing to indicate that the two guys aren't on the same page, so I'd have to believe that they're in full agreement on this issue, too.

 

These are the two big areas in which I think Ned needs to improve:

• Statistical sample sizes, especially batter-pitcher matchups...

  Maybe we can hope that his explanations seem weak in this area because he doesn't want to reveal whatever is in his scouting report, but from the outside, this sure looks to be an area that can be improved.

• Realizing what his players can actually do rather than asking them to do what they can't simply because he perceives that skill as part of a guy's role on the team...

  Last year, it was all those base stealing attempts out of Brady Clark, maybe because he was batting leadoff. This year, it's using Derrick Turnbow on consecutive days, even when he's no good that way, simply because he's the "eighth inning guy".

[bklynbrewcrew]

Its pretty obvious by now that Yost cant take criticism since he is constantly putting down the fans. As far as him learning from mistakes I say that if he hasnt learned in 5 years he will never learn. Ned should only be mamaging teams like Baltimore and KC that have no title aspirations. He wont get criticized in places like that since it really makes no difference if your managerial decisions cuase your team to lose 100 games instead of 95. In this situation he is the difference between playoffs and second place. This team is way too talented to be dragged down any further by this dolt and I just wish that Attanasio would see this but apparently he is too chummy with Ned. As far as Melvin is concerned he must have lost all objectivity in his dealing with Ned if he thinks that Ned has done a good job.

[BrewCityUnit]

I agree that Yost isn't winning any brownie points with me by continually putting down the fans and acting like a "fan" has no clue about the game of baseball and how to manage a game. When you have 90% of people hoping for a decision to be made by your manager and your manager does the opposite, I think it is fairly safe to say that the majority of "fans" get it and the manager doesn't.

[1992casey]

Its pretty obvious by now that Yost cant take criticism since he is constantly putting down the fans. As far as him learning from mistakes I say that if he hasnt learned in 5 years he will never learn.

This comment was posted a few messages back:

"There was no Internet or this other stuff they have today, with the dissection and the message boards and everything where every pitch is dissected nine different ways, and the people who really missed their calling and should have been major-league managers," (Ned) said.

I don't take that as a criticism of the fans; rather, I take that as acknowledging the existence of so many people who've decided they can be pundits. I don't think we, as message board members, can 'elevate' ourselves to that level. And I certainly don't think the comment is directed toward fans who show up 35,000 strong at games.

 

Many, many times, Ned has said that the fans have been great. My favorite was an interview the day of the canceled Fan Fest a couple years ago. Those of us on the board were counting the number of times he said "battled" in that interview: the players battled, the fans battled, etc.

 

I actually do think that Ned has learned from mistakes; however, he does make new ones. In 2003, Ned used extremely set lineups, and probably did OK with them. In 2004, that practice turned out to be a fiasco. He changed course eventually, but probably much later than he should have.

 

Last year, he decided on an aggressive baserunning strategy.(I mentioned Brady Clark above.) Many of us on this board feared that from the outset. This year, generally, the right guys are attempting to steal. But again, that practice should have been discontinued last year rather than being adjusted this year.

[giffted1]

I agree that Yost isn't winning any brownie points with me by continually putting down the fans and acting like a "fan" has no clue about the game of baseball and how to manage a game. When you have 90% of people hoping for a decision to be made by your manager and your manager does the opposite, I think it is fairly safe to say that the majority of "fans" get it and the manager doesn't.

I think it would be safe to say the opposite. Ned has been in baseball for years and I think he knows a lot more about baseball than most fans. A majority of BF.netters might not agree with saving your closer on the road, but a majority of managers follow that rule. Just because the majority is in agreement doesn't mean they "get it" more than the minority.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I am personally sick and tired of Neds "what do the fans know anyway" attitude. He has made snide comments over and over again on many different occasions to show his lack of respect for the fans. Face it the people on this site are the biggest fans the team has and for him to dismiss all of us like he has is extremely disrespectful. In his eyes anyone on the internet that watches the games closely is clueless and knows far less than him when in truth its people like myself and many others on this site that have watched enough baseball over the years to know good baseball strategies from poor ones. His blatant disrespect of anyone that disagrees with him is both rude and arrogant.

[RightFieldCoder]

BrewCityUnit[/b]]When you have 90% of people hoping for a decision to be made by your manager and your manager does the opposite, I think it is fairly safe to say that the majority of "fans" get it and the manager doesn't.

I still meet a lot of "fans" that think our problem is that we don't bunt enough or attempt enough steals. And that we'd be better off with TGJ starting every day. I don't want a manager doing something just to appease the fans.

 

I think Ned does a great job with this team. I think everyone in the clubhouse likes him and likes his style of play. The only problem I have is with his in-game decisions: Aquino with the game on the line, Mench instead of Jenkins vs RHP, Bruan being pulled from a 7-1 game for defensive reasons, Corey Hart and YoGa sacrifice bunting. He keeps a very even keel and that helps stabilize a young team. But sometimes you've got to realize that there a rocks ahead and you need to adjust your course. If Ned can start learning and being more adaptive during the year he would receive only the normal criticism that every manager gets unjustly.

[Fatter than Joey]

If Ned can start learning and being more adaptive during the year

 

He has been the manager for 5 years, isn't it a bit late to start learning? -- and why not just hire someone who has learned these lessons?

[Bucky Rules]

I am personally sick and tired of Neds "what do the fans know anyway" attitude. He has made snide comments over and over again on many different occasions to show his lack of respect for the fans.

I would say he's speaking of the talk show blow-hards, and the bloggers that hide behind their phones and keyboards to pound the same point over and over and over again - often times contradicting themselves. If Yost hears what I've heard, how is supposed to take some of these people seriously? One minute he's ripped for not keeping a set lineup, and the next guy rips him for leaving someone in the lineup too long.

 

Face it the people on this site are the biggest fans the team has and for him to dismiss all of us like he has is extremely disrespectful

That's a pretty arrogant and naive statement. I guarantee you that most of "biggest fans" of this team rarely - if ever - visit this site. No disrespect to this site -- which is awesome -- but, how many people do you actually believe spend a lot of time on this site? This statement just goes to show how much of a sheltered view that some here have. Take for example, my mother. She's definitely one of the biggest Brewer fans alive. She 70 years old and doesn't even know how to turn a computer on, much less visit and contribute to this site. There are TONS of people just like her. The people that visit this site are people that enjoy blogging and the Brewers. To categorically call those people the "biggest fans the team has" simply because you're here, is blatantly arrogant.

 

If all you know about Brewer fans views of Yost is from the blogs and talk-radio, you'd think that 95% of the fans want him out. JSonline ran a poll a few days back, and it turns out that only about 35% say he shouldn't be back. And if you know anything about marketing, you'll know that these types of polls are much likelier to elicit responses from the negative/angry fans, than the supporters. So my guess is that it could be somewhere closer to a loud 25% minority. But, no worries... I'm sure that 25% is the group that has really watched a lot of baseball and knows the difference between good strategies and bad.

 

In his eyes anyone on the internet that watches the games closely is clueless and knows far less than him when in truth its people like myself and many others on this site that have watched enough baseball over the years to know good baseball strategies from poor ones. His blatant disrespect of anyone that disagrees with him is both rude and arrogant.

I suggest that some here should read this comment and look in the mirror.

[jason21nl]

I think you're walking a fine line calling someone arrogant and naive, then finishing it with telling people to look in the mirror.

[olliegjw]

Well said Bucky Rules. I can't count the number of times this year, when people were all upset about a certain pinch hitter not being used. Some of the times, that guy had already pinch hit earlier in the game, and many other times, it came out after the game that a player was sick, or injured, and wasn't available. The manager, and all of his coaches, have a lot more information at their fingertips than we, the educated fans have.

 

As die-hard fans, we tend to live and die by every pitch, and every decision, of every game. We tend to lose sight of the big picture. I think Yost has done an excellent job of developing the young talent, and keeping the team on an even keel (especially after some of those brutal losses). If the preseason prediction thread is still around, we should bring that back to see what people predicted versus where the team is at now. I remember a lot of people predicting below .500 this year. The team has exceeded a lot of expectations going into the year.

[Grateful cub]

As a cub fan, I think everyone sympathizes with what you guys may have to put up with next year (we had to watch and listen to Baker), but in terms of our teams competing, Yost being there next year is really good news for us, because it's a little scary (to me) what a good manager could do with your team.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Of course the cubs fans want Ned to stick around. I wonder why?