Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 2)

[endaround]

To everyone wanting to pinch hit Mench, who will you bring in to play 3rd base in the bottom of the ninth and please justify you choice as being better then Counsell. (and for all those who like to use what happend after the choice, remember Counsell make a great play on Jones shot down the line for out one, which if allowed by would have went for extra bases)

I don't know, leave Braun in for once? That second run is much, much more valuable than any defensive upgrade.

 

[Ennder]

Hall and Dillon can both play 3B better than Braun as well.

[owbc]

With a runner on 3rd, I think besides maybe Hart and Fielder, I'd most like to have Counsell up there. He's almost always gets the run in. I don't know what possessed Counsell to try that bunt with two strikes. Yost didn't call that. It's only Counsell's fault for that situation, I don't blame Yost at all.

[jeffy]

With a runner on 3rd, I think besides maybe Hart and Fielder, I'd most like to have Counsell up there. He's almost always gets the run in. I don't know what possessed Counsell to try that bunt with two strikes. Yost didn't call that. It's only Counsell's fault for that situation, I don't blame Yost at all.

 

I think it is pretty certain that Yost did make that call (what makes you think he didn't?) and it was an idiotic one, just like having Hall try to bunt with two strikes earlier in the game. These are the sort of decisions that make me question his judgement most. Things like pinch hitting one guy for another, putting in one pitcher vs. another, putting in defensive subs or not, ... are things there can usually be reaonable disagreement on. As I posted before I don't believe I have ever (in 38 years of watching baseball) seen a position player attempt to bunt with two strikes before. Has anyone seen this done by any manager other than Yost?

[moofnelson]

I don't believe I have ever (in 38 years of watching baseball) seen a position player attempt to bunt with two strikes before. Has anyone seen this done by any manager other than Yost?

How about THREE times in the span of 20 hours?

[badgerbob72]

To everyone wanting to pinch hit Mench, who will you bring in to play 3rd base in the bottom of the ninth and please justify you choice as being better then Counsell. (and for all those who like to use what happend after the choice, remember Counsell make a great play on Jones shot down the line for out one, which if allowed by would have went for extra bases)

I don't know, leave Braun in for once? That second run is much, much more valuable than any defensive upgrade.

 

 

Braun was subsituted to for in the top of the inning, as part of a Double Switch. Counsell was batting in the 9 spot so Braun wouldn't have been in the plate in that situation. Lets say for the sake of arguement, Braun wasn't taken out, Pitching spot is up with Runners on 1st, 3rd, and 1 out, 1 run lead, isn't Counsell one of your best bets for a pinch hitter to get the run in? Chances are the same person is at the plate in that situation, being a pinch hitter for the pitcher. Then the question is do you leave Counsell or Braun in the bottom of the 10 with a 1 run lead. (Braun's spot batted 2nd in the top of the inning and was Suppan's sac bunt)

 

As for Hall playing 3rd, does anyone honestly think has taken a ground ball at 3rd in practice this year, let alone in a pressure game.

Dillion is unknown if he is better as a defensive sub at 3rd. He has had a grand total of 7innings at 3rd base this year. (Compared to 19 inn at first base, and 46 in the outfeild.)

 

And given a choice of subbing for either Braun or Weeks, I'll the the 70 point difference in feilding percentage that Weeks have over Braun any day.

[jeffy]

Partial Retraction...apparently it was Counsell not Yost that decided to bunt with two strikes:

 

Counsell said. "I thought that was the best way to get the run in. I had a chance to do it. I just didn't get it done. With Mel running so good, you get a bunt down, he's going to score. That was kind of my thinking."

 

Yost had no problem with Counsell's call.

 

"Counsell is a polished, Major League, professional player," Yost said.

 

Brewers fall back with loss in 11th

 

So that one was a dumb move on Counsell's part.

[Mike Felder]

Everyone bashes Yost but why doesn't anyone ever bash Mike Maddux or any of the bench coaches? There's a reason why they have 3 coaches in the dugout, they talk about the decisions game-wise its just not Yost.

 

Do they? That's not meant to be a smart aleck comment, that's a genuine question that my friends and I have wondered about this year. I've been to a bunch of games and watched a ton more on TV and it doesn't seem like Yost is ever talking to anyone except Maddux every now and then. Heck, a lot of times they're on opposite ends of the dugout. It doesn't seem like Ned spends a lot of time talking to them. I realize he might talk to them when cameras aren't on him or I'm not looking, but it warrants mentioning.

 

And wasn't that one of the dirty little rumors about why Robin Yount left after last year? That Ned just wanted yes-men in the dugout and not people who would question his decision making?

[windiv07]

Partial Retraction...apparently it was Counsell not Yost that decided to bunt with two strikes:

 

Counsell said. "I thought that was the best way to get the run in. I had a chance to do it. I just didn't get it done. With Mel running so good, you get a bunt down, he's going to score. That was kind of my thinking."

 

Yost had no problem with Counsell's call.

 

"Counsell is a polished, Major League, professional player," Yost said.

 

Brewers fall back with loss in 11th

 

So that one was a dumb move on Counsell's part.

Yost had no problem with Counsell's call.

So now Yost ois leaving it up to players to decide when to bunt with 2 strikes??? This gets curiouser and curiouser all the time. Yost had no problem with Counsell's call? Did Yost have a problem with Hall's call or did Yost call for the bunt with 2 strikes? And what about the 2 strike bunt the day before that?

[Ennder]

Dillion is unknown if he is better as a defensive sub at 3rd. He has had a grand total of 7innings at 3rd base this year. (Compared to 19 inn at first base, and 46 in the outfeild.)

 

Dillon played 3B in the minors, its his natural position.

[windiv07]

Dillion is unknown if he is better as a defensive sub at 3rd. He has had a grand total of 7innings at 3rd base this year. (Compared to 19 inn at first base, and 46 in the outfeild.)

 

Dillon played 3B in the minors, its his natural position.

Then why did Yost have him playing right field Thursday? Remember what happened then?

 

<>

 

The Brewers are as good or better (man-for-man) than any roster in the NL. IMO, no team is good enough to overcome poor management. In reading another thread it just occurred to me (I am a slow thinker) why the home record is so good and the road record is so bad even though Yost is just as bad at home is he is on the road. This 2007 team gets enough of a boost to overcome the incompetence a greater percentage of the time simply because of the good old home cookin' at Miller Park. It is infinitely tougher to overcome Ned's numerous shortcomings on the road.

[pretendastronaut]

Because its been said before that we give Ned credit for doing the right things too, I wanted to note that I was really happy to see him livid in his post game interview and sticking up for our guys today. I wasn't sure I would see that fire out of him, but he had it still.

[jeffy]

So now Yost is leaving it up to players to decide when to bunt with 2 strikes???

Well, if he were not happy about about it, he would not and should not complain to reporters about it.

[RU Rah Rah]

At this point, if the playoffs are out of reach, do you really pull for a strong finish and .500+ record? I guess I probably do, but . . . part of me keeps fearing that 84 wins will save Ned's job, even if the team doesn't make the playoffs.

[pretendastronaut]

I think you need to brace yourself that even if we don't win another game, Ned probably keeps his job. Personally I'll be more surprised if he's gone.

[RU Rah Rah]

I think you need to brace yourself that even if we don't win another game, Ned probably keeps his job. Personally I'll be more surprised if he's gone.

You really don't think that 79-83 would get him fired? That would mean, what, 18 games under .500 since early July?

 

I suppose you're right, though -- I don't have any idea how he'll be evaluated. I am preparing for the worst . . .

 

[pretendastronaut]

I don't have anything to back up that belief really, but I just don't get the feeling that the organization feels the same way about him that the fan base does. I think he's viewed as part of this whole ship that is trying to turn this around and we have no idea how the players feel about him. With the fact that you can chalk up a lot of our season to youth and bad bullpen collapses as well as Yost, I really think he'll be given another year.

[Brewer Fever]

I too have this this weird, horrifying feeling that Nedly will be brought back next year. It's beyond ridiculous. What part of these continued second half collapses and Yost's mind-boggling career road record suggest any remote reason to bring him back? Isn't the risk that his pattern of driving the bullpen into the ground with early overuse every year will repeat too great to even take a chance on repeating again.

 

Every year the bullpen starts out great. To me that shows that talent is there. But Yost drives them into the ground. And every year the bullpen is a shell in the second half. Before being sent down, Villanueva led MLB in relief innings pitched. That's crazy. When Yost got here we had a 11 man pitching staff like every one else. Now, Yost needs a 13 man staff and forces Melvin to give away the farm to compensate for wearing them thin.

 

To me, the Yost/Melvin match is fundamentally flawed. Yost's biggest weakness is handling a pitching staff, specifically bullpen. And bullpen is the one area where Melvin has to be budget conscious in a small market. I think Melvin has done a good enough job supplying Yost with a capable staff. And every year without fail, Yost runs them into the ground.

[TooLiveBrew]

Plus it gives Melvin an added shield in case 2008 or 2009 gets off to a poor start. Yost's contract runs through next year, with a club option for '09, while Melvin's runs all the way through 2009. I by am no means an insider, but I'd imagine that if Melvin brings in another guy for next year and the team falls apart again, it'd be Melvin's neck on the line, too. Sticking with Yost allows him to tout any success likely to come from young players' growth as a credit to his manager. Then, if 2008 is a disappointment, once it's time to decide on the 2009 team option, he can start tossing out the "moving in another direction" talk (not coincidentally in his final year under contract).

 

I hope this theory is wrong, just as Yost is the wrong man for the manager job. I don't know if I can handle another season full of flow-of-the-game blunders!

[bklynbrewcrew]

Nay Nay Nay Nay Nay. Is there any doubt that this team has underachieved? This team clearly has enough talent to win 90 games in this division. The fact that we werent able to consistently beat teams like Pittsburgh and Washington on the road was disastrous. We choked an 8 and a half game lead and that just cant beignored. Yost doesnt know how to manage a game at all. His bullpen substituutions have cost us many games. Please fire Ned and replace him with Krembals or Valentine. Enough is enough. He has had 5 seasons to turn this team into a winner. The pieces were in place to make the playoffs and Nedly just didnt get the job done. Its time to turn the page and move on so we dont blow anymore playoff seasons with lousy in game decisions.

[adamb100]

I just fear Mark or Melvin says this about Yosts future if we do go below .500 for the season:

 

"You'd have to be crazy to fire Ned Yost. We were right in the thick of the playoff race till the very last games. I think Ned Yost has done a wonderful job leading this team this season.

[Brewer Fever]

I just fear Mark or Melvin says this about Yosts future if we do go below .500 for the season:

 

"You'd have to be crazy to fire Ned Yost. We were right in the thick of the playoff race till the very last games. I think Ned Yost has done a wonderful job leading this team this season.

 

If they bring him back and one of them says something like that, then all my faith in either of them goes out the window as well. I have zero doubt in my mind that a capable manager has us up at least a game or two on the Cubs right now. No one in this world will ever convince me otherwise. Ned's in-game AND in-season management have cost this team way too many games for it not to be recognizable to a competent baseball man

[logan82]

Yeah I think Yost is back next year. Melvin and Mark A. seem to like stability within the organization.

[clancyphile]

I will vote yea.

 

This season did NOT die due to Yost. It "died" when Sheets went down with his finger injury. While Sheets was out, the Crew slumped. To a lesser extent, Chris Capuano's injury also hurt - when he came back from his groin injury, he didn't seem to be the same pitcher.

 

Let's give him another year.

[Baldkin]

When my baseball savvy friend who happens to be a Cubs fan tells me he's so glad Yost is the Brewers manager... you know something is wrong.