Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 2)

[TooLiveBrew]

for how much myself and every brewer fan on this site wants the brewers to win, I can guarantee you that our manager wants it 1000 times worse than we do.

I can guarantee you that it is literally not possible to want the Brewers to win any more than the collective of this site already does, let alone 1000x.

[bobskube]

OK , now I'm in the right thread

 

The obligation of the manager is to put players in the situation to succeed. Ned Yost is simply not fulfilling his obligation. That should lead to his termination. Plain and simple.

This is the best basic quote that I have heard thus far. No need to say more. Very well put!

 

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Let's give Ned a little credit tonight. He managed a good game. He was aggressive and forced Cox's hand. I know it seems "bandwagonish" after a big win to give Ned some props because things worked out, but it was a different Ned tonight. He went for the kill earlier (Stocker as a PR), managed his lineup to force the other manager's hand (Gross for Rivera then Dillon) and had a fresh T-bow. Plus, he had Cordero warming up in the 7th and ready to go. Who knows, if he had been this aggressive in the last game of the 'stros series...maybe they have a better chance of winning that one...but for tonight, let's give credit where it is due and not just because they won...because he went for it.

 

Now for gosh sakes...please leave T-bow back at the hotel tomorrow.

[bigredrobbo]

It doesn't matter anymore what he did tonight. What about all the other times, huh? There'll always be the other times to cast up.

That's why I now think Yost will be gone after the season - he's become a distraction. More negative energy is now being expended on the manager than positive energy directed at the team. Even a WS win won't save him in the eyes of the pundits - he's toast IMO.

[SeriesFinale]

That brings up a good point. Can anyone in Milwaukee or even Wisconsin tell me if Yost is an actual issue there in the papers or on TV (I assume he's getting murdered on radio)? As a cheesehead ex-pat 2000+ miles away I feel like maybe my perspective is skewed hanging around here.

[biedergb]

Let's give Ned a little credit tonight. He managed a good game.

Well as Ben Sheets once said (after he got his first major league hit), "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then".

[Fatter than Joey]

Can anyone in Milwaukee or even Wisconsin tell me if Yost is an actual issue there in the papers or on TV (I assume he's getting murdered on radio)?

 

If I have to drive to the bank during the weekday afternoons I listen to the Homer show. He defends Yost to the death, and if the Brewers win, he brings the "Is Yost so stupid now" babbling to the table.

[trwi7]

Can anyone in Milwaukee or even Wisconsin tell me if Yost is an actual issue there in the papers or on TV (I assume he's getting murdered on radio)?

 

If I have to drive to the bank during the weekday afternoons I listen to the Homer show. He defends Yost to the death, and if the Brewers win, he brings the "Is Yost so stupid now" babbling to the table.

 

Drew Olson always defends him on the D-List. He gets hammered on WSSP but their signal is weak, Bill Michaels has some sort of irrational man love for him, won't even debate points, he'll just talk over the caller with the same look how much the young kids like him blah, blah, blah crap before the caller finally gets tired of it and hangs up.

[sgtcluels]

Last night I thought Ned managed the game well. PR for Estrada (Wow.. could have used a PR for Bush), seemed to pulled his starter around the right time, played the announce game to force a match up. Put Weeks in when we needed him the most (Why he didn't start is beyond me) but if Yost can manage like taht every time. I'd be ok with Yost returning. Just he seems to repeat the same mistakes, get too "into the flow" of the game.

[Ennder]

He's starting to get railed on quite a bit on the bigger sabermetric sites. BP wrote an article on his misuse of Cordero and they said their mail boxes are flooded with complaints about him. In today's power rankings this little snippit was included...

 

The Brewers are 1.5 back, but now they might be without the services of Ben Sheets. Not that it really matters, since Ned Yost is so willing to just give games away that the Brewers need to win. For a team that needs to win every game they can, not starting Rickie Weeks (.276/.447/.517 since 8/10) because he's 0-8 in his career against Tim Hudson is just baffling. Yes, they won, but let's run that test 100 times and see who comes out ahead.

[windiv07]

For a team that needs to win every game they can, not starting Rickie Weeks (.276/.447/.517 since 8/10) because he's 0-8 in his career against Tim Hudson is just baffling. Yes, they won, but let's run that test 100 times and see who comes out ahead.

I know. It seems every game down the stretch there is a roster move or two like this resulting in a critical inadequacy. The day prior it was starting Joe Dillon in right for the first time in Joe's MLB career and on the road in a strange stadium. Result again did not hit the stat page (a muffed pop fly by Joe with 2 outs that sustained the Braves rally scoring what turned out to be the winning run). It was ruled a base hit because Joe misjudged & over-ran it, then fell before he could reach for it. I felt bad for him and wonder how the players in the dugout must've reacted both to the lineup when it was posted and then to that moment when it happened. They cannot have much confidence in a manager who regularly makes such decisions under these pressure situations. It is almost a clinic in how not to manage.

[Bernman23]

I'm not kidding when I say Yost might be the worst manager in the major league. He's wholly undeserving of managing a team this promising.

 

Shouse against a righty with the game on the line, when will he ever learn. It cost us the game at Philadelphia. And it contributing substantially to one of the losses at PNC or Great American Ballpark.

 

What are you saving your best relievers for? You won't have a save situation for them to be utilized if you keep on trotting out inferior relievers. You have to play inning by inning from the 9th inning on the road and afterward. They are sudden death situations. And he kills this team with those decisions. Good thing he preserves them for garbage time work in games which are already decided. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/ohwell.gif Cross the next bridge when you come to it.

 

Then I thought I'd seen it all before twice bunting with 2 strikes and position players at bat. Counsell could accidentally bunt the way he makes contact. Way to let the opposing team off the hook. And of course that was the difference in the game.

 

He should not be the Brewers manager in 2008.

[Brian the Automator]

bernman, Chipper and Tex are switch hitters.

[Bernman23]

bernman, Chipper and Tex are switch hitters.

 

In other words, they are equally capable of batting right-handed, and thus making Shouse ineffective with his career .400 BAA and 1.000+ OPSA? I mean that's a technicality Brian. It's not as if they are going to do Shouse and the Brewers a favor and bat left handed. I'm quite positive Linebrink's career splits against lefties or righties aren't near as pitiful. Make them hit lefty against a better pitcher in that situation.

[Mike Felder]

Jones hits better from the left side of the plate...that's why they had lefty Ray King pitch to him in his previous AB. I don't know about Tex's splits...

[Brian the Automator]

bernman, Chipper and Tex are switch hitters.

In other words, they are equally capable of batting right-handed, and thus making Shouse ineffective with his career .400 BAA and 1.000+ OPSA? I mean that's a technicality Brian. It's not as if they are going to do Shouse and the Brewers a favor and bat left handed. I'm quite positive Linebrink's career splits against lefties or righties aren't near as pitiful. Make them hit lefty against a better pitcher in that situation.

Chipper's splits vs. lefties are pretty distinct. Teixera pretty much mashes either way. They had a lefty up after Teixera. Righties only have a .644 OPS vs. Shouse this year.

 

I fully blame Ned for bunting Counsell on 2 strikes, but I think he managed the 10th the best he could have. I don't think I would have done anything different.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bernman23]

Jones hits better from the left side of the plate...that's why they had lefty Ray King pitch to him in his previous AB. I don't know about Tex's splits...

Larry had the same numbers virtually as a right-hander from '04 to '06 as he did as a left-hander. Teixeira actually hits slightly better right-handed. And of course what is Shouse's long history against righties? Good or outrageously bad? Because that obviously should be a/the major factor.

[Brian the Automator]

Jones hits better from the left side of the plate...that's why they had lefty Ray King pitch to him in his previous AB. I don't know about Tex's splits...

Larry had the same numbers virtually as a right-hander from '04 to '06 as he did as a left-hander. Teixeira actually hits slightly better right-handed. And of course what is Shouse's long history against righties? Good or outrageously bad? Because that obviously should be a/the major factor.

Normally I would agree with you, but we have a whole season's worth of recent data to go by now. Shouse has been a different pitcher this year, and his double-play-but-not ball should have been proof of that.

 

[bobskube]

Yost was not awful today and he was not good.

 

He got away with Spurling earlier pitching and got away with starting TBow in the 8th. He also made a poor decision with the three strike bunt with Counsell. If Counsell (or Dillon) drive in that run from third, this conversation is not happening.

[jlau20]

Well, aside from my severe depression that set in about 40 minutes ago, Ned actually managed a pretty good game tonight I would say. I'm not a fan of Spurling in the 9th in a tie game ever, but he was fine today, thankfully. I don't have a problem replacing Braun with Counsell, because today Ned did it way later in the game, rather than the 6th or 7th. I do have a small beef with having Counsell bunt, considering some big at-bats Counsell has put up lately, getting up to 9-10 pitches in an at-bat then coming up with a big hit, I would rather have him swing and take our chances that way. Bunting isn't exactly our strong point most of the time, there was only one out, Stocker is somewhat speedy, I'm confident Counsell could have atleast knocked him in with a sac fly.

 

I don't want Ned back, but I've been much more upset at Ned than today to say the least.

 

Today's loss is on the players IMO, and I feel sick that Rickie booted that ball there, after the month and half he's been having. Just feel terrible for the guy.

[Jay Zahn]

Relating to Yost...

 

I can't believe in a game with what Weeks did and Cordero did, that the critics think it all comes down to Yost. I didn't see the Thorson home run, on radio it sounded like a moon shot. How about trying to make him chase, at least on 0-0? Terrible pitch, anyone? Terrible fielding by Rickie, anyone?

 

I know the players are not perfect, but if everything Yost is going to be raked over the coals, how about some hate for bad playing?

[Brian the Automator]

Relating to Yost...

 

I can't believe in a game with what Weeks did and Cordero did, that the critics think it all comes down to Yost. I didn't see the Thorson home run, on radio it sounded like a moon shot. How about trying to make him chase, at least on 0-0? Terrible pitch, anyone? Terrible fielding by Rickie, anyone?

 

I know the players are not perfect, but if everything Yost is going to be raked over the coals, how about some hate for bad playing?

In fairness, this is the Ned Yost yay/nay thread. The theme here is not necessarily "who's to blame for the game", but do Ned's decisions positively or negatively affect the team.

And yeah, Thorman's shot was ginormous.

[RU Rah Rah]

I have been in the "nay" camp for a long time, but even I won't try to nit-pick Ned for the debacle in Atlanta on Sat. Sure, he could have done better, but there were so many glaring execution-related miscues that I wouldn't even put him among the top three culprits for the day.

[adambr2]

I will say it again:

 

If Yost ordered Counsell to bunt with 2 strikes and the tying run at 3rd with less than 2 outs, that was a monumentally boneheaded move. Like, "guy who should be led off to the clubhouse in a straightjacket" boneheaded.

[Ennder]

Relating to Yost...

 

I can't believe in a game with what Weeks did and Cordero did, that the critics think it all comes down to Yost. I didn't see the Thorson home run, on radio it sounded like a moon shot. How about trying to make him chase, at least on 0-0? Terrible pitch, anyone? Terrible fielding by Rickie, anyone?

 

I know the players are not perfect, but if everything Yost is going to be raked over the coals, how about some hate for bad playing?

 

Thats the thing though, I don't just blame Yost for the loss. The players did fail to excecute as well. Yost however is in a position where he cannot fail to execute on a regular basis and keep his job, in at least half of the games I feel he makes critical errors that lower our chances to win. Bunting with 2 strikes should almost never happen with a position player in the game, it is just a terrible move. He did it twice tonight and one of them was in a questionable situation to be bunting in the first place.

 

The players ultimately control the majority of the game but Yost does control a small part of every game too and he is costing us 5% chances to win on a regular basis that add up to 2, 3 or 4 wins total on the year. With that many more wins we are still strong contenders in the playoff race instead of on the outside looking in.