Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 2)

[Fatter than Joey]

I have defended Ned Yost all year, but I have no defense for what happened last night.

 

Woah! -- I sense a shift in the balance of the force.

[logan82]

Yay, Ned didn't tell Linebrink to walk a guy on 4 straight pitches or the players not to score a run with the bases loaded and one out in the first. Score runs there or don't let them score runs in the 7th and this game never gets to extra innings.

[brewmann04]

the 3 same problems have hurt this team most of the Year

 

 

1 Their Inability to score Runs with men on Base and less that 2 outs.

 

2 Their ability to blow big leads during the game

 

3 Ned Some what questionable moves during games.

[Bring Back the Stein]

Ned Yost's defenders recall the dead-end defenders of a certain American president. There never seems to be any bad consequence that can't be explained away by either a) chalking it up to having arisen from an inscrutable, unknowable plane or b) ascribing the bad acts to someone else.

 

In last night's case, the numbers are pretty clear about the effectiveness of Turnbow after a night in which he has pitched (and why he pitched with a plus-5-run lead the night before is zany on its face); and about Linebrink's effectiveness having allowed runners. He took Braun's bat out of the equation AGAIN in a situation where it could have been useful. The Shouse rightie matchup? Eh. Numbers can be used to argue either way. Either way, Yost again made decisions that did not put his team in the best position to win and yes, it could have been predicted.

 

The Wise decision? There's really no words left to comment on that other than it was unconscionable. Even given our reservoir of talent, there's absolutely no guarantee that the Brewers will enjoy this position again any time soon. Putting-and LEAVING-Wise in there is about all the evidence one needs to reach the "nay" conclusion.

 

(All of which I find ironic, since Wise is one of those dead-end defenders of a certain American president.)

[TooLiveBrew]

Woah! -- I sense a shift in the balance of the force.

 

http://www.currychips.com/obiwan-lava.jpg

 

Ob-f-Wan: You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! You were to bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!

 

http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com/uploaded_images/May16Yost-757927.jpg

 

Nedakin: I HATE YOU!

 

Ob-f-wan: You were my brother, Nedakin - I loved you.

[biedergb]

OK , now I'm in the right thread

 

The obligation of the manager is to put players in the situation to succeed. Ned Yost is simply not fulfilling his obligation. That should lead to his termination. Plain and simple.

[endaround]

Yay, Ned didn't tell Linebrink to walk a guy on 4 straight pitches or the players not to score a run with the bases loaded and one out in the first. Score runs there or don't let them score runs in the 7th and this game never gets to extra innings.

Yes if Ned didn't have to make decisions he wouldn't make bad ones.

 

[Weirdos19]

Yay, Ned didn't tell Linebrink to walk a guy on 4 straight pitches or the players not to score a run with the bases loaded and one out in the first. Score runs there or don't let them score runs in the 7th and this game never gets to extra innings.

Yes if Ned didn't have to make decisions he wouldn't make bad ones.

 

 

If our players were perfect, anybody could manage the team.

 

The problem is that the players put us in a position to win and Ned makes stupid mistakes over and over again.

[tomwopat]

Here's an article at Baseball Prospectus by blowhard Joe Sheehan that basically echoes what most of us have been saying for some time:

Article

 

No mention of the Braun defensive replacement, though.

[Mike Felder]

Very nice article.

 

"If you can't recognize that "tied in the tenth inning, other team's best guys up, a half-game out of first place, 12 days left" is about the highest-leverage situation you're going to come across, and act accordingly, it's possible that you're not the best person for your job."

 

I love that quote. Sums up Ned pretty nicely.

[LS Brewer]

Ned Yost's defenders recall the dead-end defenders of a certain American president. There never seems to be any bad consequence that can't be explained away by either a) chalking it up to having arisen from an inscrutable, unknowable plane or b) ascribing the bad acts to someone else.

 

The only thing that I like less than some of Ned's bullpen decisions is someone bringing politics to Brewerfan.net.

[thablingster]

It is so sad when statisticans, Cubs fans, and Brewers fans all agree that Yost's moves last night were downright awful.

[RU Rah Rah]

Ned Yost's defenders recall the dead-end defenders of a certain American president. There never seems to be any bad consequence that can't be explained away by either a) chalking it up to having arisen from an inscrutable, unknowable plane or b) ascribing the bad acts to someone else.

 

The only thing that I like less than some of Ned's bullpen decisions is someone bringing politics to Brewerfan.net.

Yeah, I have suppressing the urge to make a similar comparison. Wise to keep things here devoid of politics.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

what we can talk about, though, is the concept of "Hatas" in the rap world. Even though I don't like 50 Cent because I think he's not a good rapper, I'm sure he'd tell me it's just because I was hatin' on all his fine women and money - and my critique is therefore not based on facts (like him sucking at rapping), but just jealousy and emotion(s). I think it's similar to what BBTStein was getting at

[trwi7]

Christian (Chicago): What does Ned Yost have to do to get fired? Not bringing in Cordero last night was inexcusable.

 

Keith Law: His bullpen mismanagement has been almost mclarenific.

[Fatter than Joey]

I am just thinking that we could have an economical summary of questionable decisions, game-by-game, without the venting (which I have been known to indulge in myself).

 

Good idea.... People can post their "strategy analysis" -- and I will put up a summary at the end of the game, for here on out for 2007.

firenedyost.com

[tigerbrew]

It was 24 hours ago, but I still can't help feeling very unhappy with Yost over yesterday's loss. That loss was a huge downer and may have affected the team today.

[patrickgpe]

interesting article on ned yost's job security on espn.com

8 managers who may not be back

[sheethead]

I must say that analysis of Yost's chances is generous. How would the odds look if this team doesn't even win 82 games? Think that is not possible? Might want to chew on that for a little while.

[jeffy]

Very nice article.

 

"If you can't recognize that "tied in the tenth inning, other team's best guys up, a half-game out of first place, 12 days left" is about the highest-leverage situation you're going to come across, and act accordingly, it's possible that you're not the best person for your job."

 

I love that quote. Sums up Ned pretty nicely.

 

That article is an excellent analysis. I sure hope Melvin and Mark A. see it.

 

The part you quoted is a great summary of Ned's inadequacy. Plus it became even worse, Ned stuck with Wise even when: "...tied in the tenth inning, other team's best guys up, winning run on third base, no outs, ...".

[jeffy]

I must say that analysis of Yost's chances is generous. How would the odds look if this team doesn't even win 82 games? Think that is not possible? Might want to chew on that for a little while.

 

Unfortunately, I think he has it about right...assuming they do win 82 or more.

 

Ned Yost, Milwaukee Brewers

When the Brewers careened from 14 games over .500 in May to a game under .500 in late August, it probably wouldn't have been a good time for Yost to run for mayor. But his GM (Doug Melvin) and his owner (Mark Attanasio) are bigger fans of stability than they are of panic. So Yost never appeared to be in massive danger, barring, say, an 0-30 finish. But when the Brewers pulled it together, won 13 of their next 20 and pulled back even with the Cubs, that was almost certainly enough to prove to Yost's employers that whatever shortcomings his team might have, willingness to play hard for the manager wasn't one of them. Odds he won't be back: 25-1

[logan82]

I really think that Ned is back next year if they get at least 83 wins this year. That would give them a 16-12 record for the month of September. That doesn't seem like much, but that is a pretty good record for any month. They will have finished strong after almost completley falling apart in July and August.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

The Baseball Prospectus article is the strongest evidence to date I have seen for the Nay side. I've been very "on the fence" on Ned because I like him and I think the team has a great attitude. Some of that cohesion must come from the manager. (What can I say... I thought Bart Starr needed a ninth year to hone his skills) But his in-game management and bullpen management do not withstand the scrutiny. Fans do indeed get too emotional on hiring/firing a manager or coach and I dislike it when the talk radio tomahawks come out. However...putting all that aside, Ned really has brought much of this upon himself.

 

In a game like baseball, playing the percentages, means giving your team a small edge. 5-10% better chance on an in-game move max. There may only be a big decision every couple days that give that type of edge. For each mistake he makes, it has to be netted out against good decisions he makes...of which even the detractors would say are there. It just seems there is a lack of consistency in the moves and when push comes to shove, he often makes a questioanble call. Percentages one day, gut the next.

 

The bullpen management has been a series of errors that has fed on itself over the course of the year. How they have not figured out the proper use pattern for T-bow is beyond me. The fans should not be booing the guy...he is what he is. Look at his splits...the guy is gassed and can't go 2 days straight because Ned & Maddux have burned him out.

 

Bigger issues for the team have been pitching, defense and clutch hitting...but managing has to be included in there as well. I wouldn't call myself a Nay (or a Yay for that matter), but I sure do see many of their arguments as rational.

[mark brouhard is number on]

I also see both sides of the story and don't like some of the moves made by Ned. I would say I am more on the Yay side though. I just really don't like it when fans and idiot talk radio people get all up in arms about every questionable decision he makes. He has way more data at his disposal when he makes in game decisions than we do and even when he does go with his "gut" at times, which one of us have never done that? cut the guy a little slack. for how much myself and every brewer fan on this site wants the brewers to win, I can guarantee you that our manager wants it 1000 times worse than we do. To call for his head and nitpick at every decision to me is unnecessary. I would much rather come up with something constructive to do or just cheer what is one of the most exciting brewer seasons in a long time.

[Ennder]

I also see both sides of the story and don't like some of the moves made by Ned. I would say I am more on the Yay side though. I just really don't like it when fans and idiot talk radio people get all up in arms about every questionable decision he makes. He has way more data at his disposal when he makes in game decisions than we do and even when he does go with his "gut" at times, which one of us have never done that? cut the guy a little slack. for how much myself and every brewer fan on this site wants the brewers to win, I can guarantee you that our manager wants it 1000 times worse than we do. To call for his head and nitpick at every decision to me is unnecessary. I would much rather come up with something constructive to do or just cheer what is one of the most exciting brewer seasons in a long time.

I'm of the opinion that an average manager has us in first place right now and Yost has probably cost us a playoff chance. Removing him from the picture is about the most constructive thing we can do. The manager doesn't have a huge impact but I think Yost has cost us 2, maybe 3 games on the year and that is enough with a close race. I'd rather not wait another year for him to prove he's not the right guy, the window of us being a strong team might only be 4-5 years, why waste another one.