Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 2)

[stoutdude04]

Stop second guessing! Maybe it was a "gut" feeling. Whatever it was, I think we should just assume he had a good reason for it, and not question it any further. There's so much that goes on in a major league dugout, you couldn't possibly understand enough to formulate a valid opinion on the subject. Everybody makes mistakes. How do you know that a different manager wouldn't do the same stupid things over and over and over and over and over and over and over, just like Ned?

 

It's easy to question the decison now that it didn't work out, but what if Bush had hit a homerun? What if Braun's defensive replacement made an awesome defensive play and then hit the game-winning homerun?? You'd be hailing Ned a genius. Instead, you're questioning his moves because you HATE him. Stop asking questions. Support Ned, or get off the Brewer bandwagon...

 

I realize you are poking fun at him...and I am fine with that. You and I have disagreed in the vent forum for sometime. I was not able to watch the end of the game. I cannot say anything to protect or defend Ned in this situation. What you said though...I think is true. Do I agree with it? Maybe or maybe not. I wish I would have seen the end of the game. BUT...for the rest of THIS season he is our manager..you can hate him...but he will be there all year. Everyone expected this team to win 82-86 games. IF Ned gets them there...I dont think you can be that upset. He has won some games with his "silly" calls, as well as lost some.

[logan82]

Because that's what a lot of them explicitly say. Here's an example from tonight, in the Tony LaRussa thread: "Yost will get his extension and he deserves it. Anyone who jumps ship because of it won't be missed."

 

This kind of crap is constantly being spewed out as some people's idea of an actual defense for Yost. It's not really a defense of Yost at all. It speaks nothing of his abilities of a manager, but rather attacks the character and fandom of a particular group of posters. If you've never made a similar comment, I apologize for singling you out.

 

Thank you for apologizing. I did feel singled out in this case. I know we completley disagree on wether Yost is a good manager, but I would like to think that even though I disagree with your opinion I have always tried to be respectful of it.

[SeriesFinale]

The NSBB guys love him: http://www.northsidebaseball.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=44193

[danzig6767]

.but he will be there all year. Everyone expected this team to win 82-86 games. IF Ned gets them there...I dont think you can be that upset.

 

Why does this get used so often?What do preseason predictions that often are wrong have to do with anything?Did they predict Prince would hit around 50 bombs or Braun would be a stud right off the bat?

No preseason prediction matters at this point in the season one bit.What does matter is the Brewers were tied for first going into tonights game and our manager is yanking Braun in a 2-1 game in the 7th inning,putting Turnbow in a game in a position he typically has been bad at,and has his best pitcher sitting in the bullpen while Berkman/Lee are due up and instead decides to use a pitcher that has been miserable for the last month or longer.

His job is to put the team in the best position to win games,particularly now.Not making multiple moves likes that.The guy is so wrapped up in the save stat,common sense flew out the door and he sent out arguably his worst pitcher instead of his best in a vital game to face the Astros heart of the order.Pure insanity and the scary thing is i bet he thought his move made sense even in retrospect.

 

[trwi7]

The NSBB guys love him: http://www.northsidebaseball.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=44193

 

That's just depressing to read. Brewers fans know he messed up, Cubs fans know he messed up but Ned can hold his head high knowing he did things his way and he tried his best.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/eyes.gif

[DougJones43]

Thank you for apologizing. I did feel singled out in this case. I know we completley disagree on wether Yost is a good manager, but I would like to think that even though I disagree with your opinion I have always tried to be respectful of it.

 

You're right, you have been very respectful in your responses. I mistakenly lumped you in as being a part of the stuff I mentioned earlier, and picked on you to prove a point. Again, it wasn't fair for you to be the target.

 

However, my opinion of the "if you don't like Yost, get off the bandwagon and nobody will miss you" stuff remains unchanged.

[logan82]

However, my opinion of the "if you don't like Yost, get off the bandwagon and nobody will miss you" stuff remains unchanged.

 

Well there are 2 things we agree on now. I don't like that attitude either, and obviously we both like the Brewers.

[DougJones43]

The NSBB guys love him

Yikes. I just read that, and it made me sick to my stomach. I can just imagine the smile on their faces as they were following the game on their computers: Braun removed in the 7th, bunting with .895 OPS Corey Hart - AGAIN, Spurling and Wise but no Cordero.

 

Now they're sending their own members over here to laugh at us wallowing in our misery. This was supposed to be the year we did that to them! Stupid Cubs...Stupid Ned Yost......

[SeriesFinale]

Well, it's no different than when they had Dusty, I suppose...I felt like Baker gave the Brewers an extra win or two a year. Why wouldn't they eat it up with a spoon?

[trwi7]

Well, it's no different than when they had Dusty, I suppose...I felt like Baker gave the Brewers an extra win or two a year. Why wouldn't they eat it up with a spoon?

 

The big difference between Dusty and Ned is when Dusty was managing the Cubs the Brewers weren't fighting the Cubs for the division crown. Although I must say I loved his managing in 2003.http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/happy.gif

[DougJones43]

At least Dusty destroyed the arms of some of their younger pitchers. His damage continues to hurt their franchise. I think when Ned gets canned, the nightmare will come to swift end. There shouldn't be much residual damage, except for a ticked off and skeptical fanbase.

[TooLiveBrew]

Reading that NSBB thread re-confirmed my feelings on Yost tenfold. To hear outsiders (granted, they take delight in his failings and likely chalk his successes up to, "Ah well") state how obvious it is that he's not cut out for the job just plain hurt. That's not to say they're not 100% correct, though, and that's what makes it so sad.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think Yost has done a great job to get this team where it is.

 

...

 

Yost will get his extension and he deserves it. Anyone who jumps ship because of it won't be missed.

http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/roll.gif

The team has done an amazing job to be where they are in spite of Yost. Jump ship on the players if you want, but I vote for not continuing with an inept decision-maker.

[flosses like fossas]

where is cordero in that situation? playing for the sweep in a momentum game, and him being the only reliable arm in the pen, why wasn't cordero brought in to face the middle of their order?

[Bruce Ciskie]

where is cordero in that situation? playing for the sweep in a momentum game, and him being the only reliable arm in the pen, why wasn't cordero brought in to face the middle of their order?

 

Because Cordero can't pitch in a road game unless he has a chance for a save. Duh. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/indifferent.gif

[endaround]

I was reallly hping Wise was just a one batter guy so King would come in to face Berkman. At least that would make sense. but you knwo what else Yost did? He double switched when Wise came in, meaning he was expecting to get two innings out of Wise.

[MoneyballMan]

The NSBB guys love him

Yikes. I just read that, and it made me sick to my stomach. I can just imagine the smile on their faces as they were following the game on their computers: Braun removed in the 7th, bunting with .895 OPS Corey Hart - AGAIN, Spurling and Wise but no Cordero.

 

Now they're sending their own members over here to laugh at us wallowing in our misery. This was supposed to be the year we did that to them! Stupid Cubs...Stupid Ned Yost......

I threw up on myself a little bit as well. I've been very patient in my opinion of Yost, but after last night's game.... especially seeing the Cubs fans' glee.

[clancyphile]

where is cordero in that situation? playing for the sweep in a momentum game, and him being the only reliable arm in the pen, why wasn't cordero brought in to face the middle of their order?

Because Cordero can't pitch in a road game unless he has a chance for a save. Duh. http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/indifferent.gif

And if you have to trot Wise out in the bottom of the 10th with a one-run lead and he gives up a walk and two hits... allowing the winning run to score, what then?

 

Keeping Cordero available to shut the door in the bottom of the 9th on is not only logical - I think it is the best move to make in that situation.

[sheethead]

I was reallly hping Wise was just a one batter guy so King would come in to face Berkman. At least that would make sense. but you knwo what else Yost did? He double switched when Wise came in, meaning he was expecting to get two innings out of Wise.

 

I caught that too. How dumb can a manager be at this point in the season? Another thing that gave me deja vu dreams all night was the fact that Yost let Shouse start the 8th, then went to Turnbow with 2 on and less than 2 out. Remind anyone of a debacle in Philly earlier this year? Yost just has no sense of trial and error learning. Why make the same team-destructing mistakes over and over and over again?

 

I know I have voted already (probably 50 times), but a resounding NAY for me. I have no patience left, and hopefully Melvin and Mark A. don't either. What a crap manager. He would be good for the Devil Rays, Royals, or Rangers at this point in time. He is definitely no good for a contending team.

 

No I really know how Cubs fans felt the past couple of seasons. Brutal.

[sheethead]

And if you have to trot Wise out in the bottom of the 10th with a one-run lead and he gives up a walk and two hits... allowing the winning run to score, what then?

 

I would make the argument that Wise didn't have to be trotted out this game at all, and shouldn't have been.

[JohnBriggs12]

The Yost "explanation" that he had intended to take out Bush but he was gassed after running from first to third is a perfect example of just why he is a bad manager.

 

That scenario could have easily been anticipated. The thought process should have been, "I want Bush to go another inning, so I'm going to let him bat here. But it's getting late and we could really use some insurance runs too. If he does happen to get on, I should PR for him, because running the bases will finish him anyway. Enter Stocker (is he still on the team?) who scores to give them a 3-1 lead.

 

Yost doesn't anticipate. He doesn't grasp importance of stopping momentum.

 

The "hidden" mistake in last night's game though was the lineup. I'm sorry I love the Dillon story as much as anyone, and I've always liked Gross but they are not everyday major leaguers. Hall had one horrendous game but his September numbers are not all that bad. Jenkins had a little slump too but blasted a HR the night before. Those two are better players than Dillon and Gross.

 

As for Wise, he was the absolute last guy I would have used in the 10th inning. The obvious choice there was Cordero for the simple reason that the Astros had the middle of the order coming up. Sure you'd like to save your closer in case you get a lead but really it was the key inning. The Astros had already used their top relievers, so the chances for the Brewers scoring soon were very good. If Cordero gets through one inning under 15 pitches, he could go another. If not, Ray King has the veteran savvy to close out a game.

 

The other option in my mind for the 10th and beyond was Capuano. Capuano was sharp his last time out and even while struggling as a starter all year, often times got through 3 or 4 innings unscathed.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Why, oh why is it that Yost continually makes these foolish in game decisions?

 

1. Not running for Bush after he got on base in the 7th - Yost's postgame reasoning for it more or less indicated that he didn't think the top of the order could drive him in...great vote of confidence for your offense there. If you leave him in to run the bases, you have to at least let him get the 7th inning started.

 

2. Not using your best reliever in a very important extra inning game - Yost has continued to do this, and while there is a time and a place to save your closer until you have a lead on the road, last night wasn't that time and place. Looking at Houston's pitching situation, had the Brewers gotten out of the bottom of the 11th, both Lidge and Qualls would have been used, so one of the Astros' scrub bullpen arms would have gone out for the 12th. I don't see how you put Wise in that situation (his ERA is over 9 in his last 15 appearances, not exactly the pony you want to ride down the stretch). IF you lose, you want to at least lose with your best on the mound in this situation, especially with Houston's heart of the order up.

 

3. Once again, bringing in Turnbow for a second consecutive day, with the kicker being with runners already on 1st and 2nd. Not only did I assume the game would at least be tied at that point, Turnbow decides to have a total mental lapse and allow Berkman and Lee to DOUBLE STEAL with one out! If he had at least looked at 2nd base, that flyball doesn't score a run, and the Brewers get out of that inning down 1 run. Weeks 2 run shot the next inning gives them the lead, and Cordero comes in and closes the game out.

 

4. Continually removing Braun for defensive purposes when the game is still in doubt, and the Brewers could use additional tack on runs. It's one thing to pull him with a 1 run lead in the ninth, when he won't get another AB if they get 3 more outs, but to take your 2nd best offensive player out of the lineup in the 7th?? This is at least the 2nd or 3rd time Yost did this where it totally backfired on him in later innings.

[Bruce Ciskie]

And if you have to trot Wise out in the bottom of the 10th with a one-run lead and he gives up a walk and two hits... allowing the winning run to score, what then?

 

Keeping Cordero available to shut the door in the bottom of the 9th on is not only logical - I think it is the best move to make in that situation.

 

I think our signals are crossed. We're talking about the decision to use Wise instead of Cordero in the 10th, when the meat of Houston's order was due up.

 

I mean, it might have worked to save the closer that one time in Anaheim, but that doesn't make it right to use the same game plan at this point in the season.

 

If we're watching Yost manage every game like it's our last, then I'm not liking our chances in elimination games in the playoffs.

[TeeJayh1980]

I hate Ned Yost, I hate Ned Yost. I hate you Ned the Dead!

[RU Rah Rah]

Can we start a separate thread chronicling these individual managerial mistakes? (I've sort of lost count myself.)