Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 3)

[Fatter than Joey]

I believe that Melvin might have played with Randolph in the Yankees organization

 

Randolph came up through the Pirate org.

[don1481]

This is one time where I hope that Mark A. pulls a Larry Harris and dumps Ned after saying that Ned is "fine."

 

Ned got grossly out-managed by LaRussa and Cox down the stretch.

[splitterpfj]

I think it's time for a change. I like Ned, but he drives me nuts sometimes, I think he'll be one of those guys who winds up looking like a genius later in life, as Joe Torre did, after being fired by the Mets, Braves and Cardinals.

 

Ned lost me over the last two months.

[bucks2281]

The incident on Wednesday was the last straw. Considering the start this team experienced, I don't believe Ned has done anything to warrant keeping his job this year, except that he has one more season left on his contract. Seriously, four of the six teams in this division were a non-factor during the majority of the season, and they held, at one point, an 8.5 lead over Chicago. The Brewers were absolutely talented enough to win this thing. And, the road record is downright disturbing. I'm going to pull my hair out if their poor play on the road continues next year. I think that's on Ned. He's has had enough chances. It's time for a change.

[windiv07]

Truth be told, there are signals that tell me that Ned does not want to work in Milwaukee. Nothing specific you can really single out, but just a lot of little things the indicate there is more there than face value. Much of this heat we read in this thread Ned has brought on himself but I think it goes much deeper and longer than the second half collapse in 2007. If you compare even the on-camera the Ned of 5 years ago with the Ned of 4 years ago and so on up to today, a pattern & progression begins to emerge. I think there are issues both inside & outside of baseball for Ned that point in the direction that deep down, he just doesn't feel comfortable in Milwaukee anymore. So given the opportunity, I think he would jump pretty much anywhere to get away if a MLB manager's job presented itself for equal compensation. If he is voted manager of the year, that would look great on a resume and I would be all for it if it helps him land that other job.

[TooLiveBrew]

If he is voted manager of the year, that would look great on a resume and I would be all for it if it helps him land that other job.

 

Well, you don't have to worry about that happening

[AJAY]

Interesting comments from Drew Olson of Onmilwaukee.com . . .

 

Some Brewers fans may be even more disappointed to see Ned Yost back in the dugout next season. Despite a somewhat tepid vote of confidence from owner Mark Attanasio and general manager Doug Melvin this week, there are some in the organization who believe that Yost is not out of the woods. We at Saturday Scorecard believe that Yost will return in '08, but will be on a very short leash. If the team doesn't play well in the first half, he could be replaced.

 

[logan82]

That's bold. If you are not an extreme insider, I don't see how anyone can be that sure. Taking a step back an evaluating the situation and how the season played out down the stretch I don't see how they can bring him back. He has proved that he can't handle pressure situations, will be constantly outmanaged, and has a fragile psyche. He will never be able to lead this team to where we - including Mark A. - all want it to go.

Honestly I think we see different things when taking a step back, as you put it. I see a team that was only expected to win 82-85 games and be in 2nd or 3rd place in the division by most people before the season started.

 

2 games stood out to me this week for the managers on the opposite bench for situations that would get Ned in big trouble with his critics. The first was Monday's game where LaRussa left his starter in the game to give up 9 runs, 4 earned. The next was tonights game. Thatcher, a lefty, gets brought in and gives up a hit to Braun. Then Fielder gets intentionally walked so that Thatcher can face Hart. If Yost brought in Shouse and let him pitch to a right handed batter and then intentionally walked a lefty, some people would want him gone yesterday.

[jason21nl]

logan3825[/b]]

sheethead[/b]]That's bold. If you are not an extreme insider, I don't see how anyone can be that sure. Taking a step back an evaluating the situation and how the season played out down the stretch I don't see how they can bring him back. He has proved that he can't handle pressure situations, will be constantly outmanaged, and has a fragile psyche. He will never be able to lead this team to where we - including Mark A. - all want it to go.

Honestly I think we see different things when taking a step back, as you put it. I see a team that was only expected to win 82-85 games and be in 2nd or 3rd place in the division by most people before the season started.

 

2 games stood out to me this week for the managers on the opposite bench for situations that would get Ned in big trouble with his critics. The first was Monday's game where LaRussa left his starter in the game to give up 9 runs, 4 earned. The next was tonights game. Thatcher, a lefty, gets brought in and gives up a hit to Braun. Then Fielder gets intentionally walked so that Thatcher can face Hart. If Yost brought in Shouse and let him pitch to a right handed batter and then intentionally walked a lefty, some people would want him gone yesterday.

I coudln't believe that they were going to let thatcher face braun, then face hart. If yost would have done that, I would have flipped. Those are the decisions that you have to go brain dead at the time to make them. If I'm a fan of SD, I would be livid that they had a lefty to face Braun.

[endaround]

It was extra innings and Thatcher has killed RHP in the majors so far so he may not be a LOOGY. So the premise is totally wrong

[giffted1]

It was extra innings and Thatcher has killed RHP in the majors so far so he may not be a LOOGY. So the premise is totally wrong

Thatcher only has about 20 major league innings. It's too soon to make any assumptions about his ability to get righties out. In almost every case, bringing in a lefty to pitch to righties and walk the only lefty he faces is asking for trouble.

 

If this were a Padres board the IGT would have been filled with "Blacked" posts and other criticisms of Bud Black.

[adamb100]

I do think Ned Yost has to go along with Derrick Turnbow. Yost just made too many mistakes that costed us games.

[endaround]

It was extra innings and Thatcher has killed RHP in the majors so far so he may not be a LOOGY. So the premise is totally wrong

Thatcher only has about 20 major league innings. It's too soon to make any assumptions about his ability to get righties out. In almost every case, bringing in a lefty to pitch to righties and walk the only lefty he faces is asking for trouble.

 

If this were a Padres board the IGT would have been filled with "Blacked" posts and other criticisms of Bud Black.

Again its extra innings. SD had used their best relievers already.

 

[Fatter than Joey]

I see a team that was only expected to win 82-85 games and be in 2nd or 3rd place in the division by most people before the season started.

 

I don't see this sort of reasoning valid to measure your manager.

 

I think collectively BFnet thought that the NL Central would be weak, and that turned out to be the case. I would guess that most people here thought that

a .500 record would keep Brewers in the playoff race.

 

However if some one would have told BFnet that:

 

1. Prince will have 50+ jacks

2. Braun would produce MVP numbers

3. The team would set a team record for HRs

4. CoCo would have his saves streak.

 

I suspect our expectations would have collectively risen.

 

After watching most of the games, I just feel this team left a lot of games on the table that most managers would not have.

[gregmag]

"Totally wrong"? Braun has a 1.480 OPS against lefties (vs. .834 against RHPs). That's in 127 PAs, which isn't a huge sample -- but it's plenty, given the extremity of the stat, to support the premise that no manager should let a lefty face Braun if he can help it.

 

Greg.

[RU Rah Rah]

I see a team that was only expected to win 82-85 games and be in 2nd or 3rd place in the division by most people before the season started.

 

I don't see this sort of reasoning valid to measure your manager.

 

I think collectively BFnet thought that the NL Central would be weak, and that turned out to be the case. I would guess that most people here thought that

a .500 record would keep Brewers in the playoff race.

 

However if some one would have told BFnet that:

 

1. Prince will have 50+ jacks

2. Braun would produce MVP numbers

3. The team would set a team record for HRs

4. CoCo would have his saves streak.

 

I suspect our expectations would have collectively risen.

 

After watching most of the games, I just feel this team left a lot of games on the table that most managers would not have.

I agree, FTJ.

Another thing that bears mentioning is that people keep referring to the 24-10 start as the high water mark of the season -- as if the 14 games-over-.500 can be talked about as merely a good (though aberrant) run in the early part of the year. The fact is, the Brewers got back to 14 games over .500 on July 2, when they beat Pittsburgh to go 48-34.

 

So, clearly, they had to play especially brutal baseball over the final three months to wind up 82-80, or 83-79. That wasn't my expectation at all. Did I expect them to extend their margin over .500 after that point in early July? Not really. But I didn't expect them to stumble so badly (again!) in the second half.

[bklynbrewcrew]

You can phrase it any way you want but this team definitely underachieved. If Yost had a clue as to how to handle a bullpen we would easily be in the playoffs with a good chance of reaching the World Series. If Mark A and Melvin are smart they will rid the team of its biggest problem which is Yost. Nay Nay Nay!

[jason21nl]

any time I try to like Ned, he does a post game interview. He is such an ass in them

[bklynbrewcrew]

Hopefully we hear of a press conference tomorrow morning to announce that Ned has been fired. That would be the ultimate silver lining to a disappointing end to the season.

[TooLiveBrew]

I mentioned this in another thread, but kudos to Yost for visibly pulling Jenkins today, earning him the sendoff he deserved.

 

http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/happy.gif

 

Well done, Ned.

[1992casey]

Anything new to tell us bklyn?

[logan82]

I don't see this sort of reasoning valid to measure your manager.

 

I think collectively BFnet thought that the NL Central would be weak, and that turned out to be the case. I would guess that most people here thought that

a .500 record would keep Brewers in the playoff race.

 

However if some one would have told BFnet that:

 

1. Prince will have 50+ jacks

2. Braun would produce MVP numbers

3. The team would set a team record for HRs

4. CoCo would have his saves streak.

 

I suspect our expectations would have collectively risen.

 

After watching most of the games, I just feel this team left a lot of games on the table that most managers would not have.

A .500 record did keep us in the race until the third to last day of the season. On the flip side, I think people would have lowered their expectations if we told them

 

1. Hall would follow up his best season by falling on his face.

2. Jenkins and Mench would put up pretty poor numbers despite playing with a platoon advantage all season.

3. Capuano instead of being a solid #2 starter would not win a game the second half of the season.(Not his fault completley)

4. Sheets would be out for a good portion of the season.

5. I don't think anybody thought we had a good defense, but I don't think anybody thought it would be as bad as it has.

 

I don't disagree that we left games on the field, I just disagree that Yost is much different than any other manager. Given a manager that put his players in the best position to win we would have won more games. How many is debatable, but I suspect it is no more than 2-3. Give that same manager to every team and I suspect that the final record of every team would be much the same as they are right now.

 

 

So, clearly, they had to play especially brutal baseball over the final three months to wind up 82-80, or 83-79. That wasn't my expectation at all. Did I expect them to extend their margin over .500 after that point in early July? Not really. But I didn't expect them to stumble so badly (again!) in the second half.

I won't disagree with the big stumble in the second half. I still think it had more to do with Cordero coming back to earth, Villanueve getting tired, and Sheets getting hurt.

[bigredrobbo]

Hopefully we hear of a press conference tomorrow morning to announce that Ned has been fired. That would be the ultimate silver lining to a disappointing end to the season.

 

Be prepared to be further disappointed, then. Willie Randolph might get his marching orders, but I can't see an 83-79 season being classed as failure in Mark A's eyes.

 

And speaking of Randolph, his name came up a few times when Ned's replacements were being touted. I guess other managers aren't perfect either, huh?

[TooLiveBrew]

Jenkins and Mench would put up pretty poor numbers despite playing with a platoon advantage all season.

 

To be fair to Kevin, against lefties he did exactly as advertised: .314/.343/.558/.901. Trouble was, he had nearly as many ABs v. RHP (132) as he did against LHP (156 - line of .212/.261/.303 - uuggghhh).

 

Jenkins, on the other hand had 355/65 (v.RH/v.LH) ABs, and could only muster a line of .262/.326/.482/.808 against RHP. Not awful, but certainly not in line with what he's done in his career v. RHP. Fwiw, Jenks played great at Miller Park, but poorly on the road. At least in his (potential) last year in Milwaukee he showed the home fans the Jenks we know & love!

[endaround]

Hey who was responsible for giving Mench all those ABs against RHPs?