Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 3)

[bklynbrewcrew]

sheethead, we can only hope. Maybe tonight Aquino can pitch in a high leverage situation. He cant be any worse than Spurling. I really hope that the Ned Lost era ends this weekend.

[jaybird2001wi]

If I had a choice of forming a coaching staff, here is who I would want on the coaching staff and why.

 

Manager: Mike Hargrove, he seems to be the type of Manager that expects a lot out of his players and can be kind of militaristic with his Managerial approach.

1st Base Coach: Gary Pettis, has experience as a base coach and could help assist the hitters in getting their OBP high and had a history as a player of being a base stealer, which could help the younger guys with proper base stealing technique and timing.

3rd Base Coach: Kremblas, knows the players very well because he has been coaching the young players since they began their minor league career.

Bench Coach: Ed Sedar, a very observational coach that could be a good set of backup eyes for Hargrove

Pitching Coach: Orel Hershiser, experienced in baseball and will be able to notice slight mechanical problems in pitchers in order to prevent any further injury (see: Ben Sheets)

Hitting Coach: Tony Diggs, like Kremblas, he has seen the younger players through their developmental stages and knows what makes them tick.

[jeffy]

sheethead, we can only hope. Maybe tonight Aquino can pitch in a high leverage situation. He cant be any worse than Spurling. I really hope that the Ned Lost era ends this weekend.

 

Well, it was Aquino throwing the last pitches that had the potential to matter. Amazing...sure the team was down 3 runs with little chance...but how in the world do you not have your best pitcher out there for that last inning? Interestingly the night before Cordero was used, even though they were losing by 4 in the ninth.

[Ennder]

The vote of confidence is many times a kiss of death, especially when Yost was as clueless as usual in the final few games.

[tigerbrew]

Dear Doug Melvin and Mark Attanasio,

Please fire Ned Yost, he has failed to meet this season's goal/target.

Earlier this year, I heard Yost and Melvin said several times that this season's goal is making the postseason. Their words were also published on the MJS. Yost has failed to deliver what he has said and should be accountable.

I find that Yost is a big talker, but low on ability and sucks at delivering. Previously Yost said "No Excuses", but now I'm hearing excuses from him, as well as reading his excuses on MJS. Talk is cheap, performance and results are what matters most.

Yost's track record is awful, especially on the road and in the second half. If Yost is back, I very much fear and suspect that next season will end like the previous 2 seasons, an atrocious road record, a second half collapse, failure to meet the goal/target (postseason), followed by lot's of useless excuses and spin on the MJS.

I impore you Doug and Mark, please replace Ned Yost now.

Sincerely yours,
tigerbrew

[AJAY]

Accoring to the NY Times, Ned Yost's wife Debbie asked him if he had lost his mind after he chose to plunk Pujols instead of focusing on winning a crucial game.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/29/sports/baseball/29brewers.html?ref=baseball

[tigerbrew]

Since the plucking of Pujols, the Brewers have lost 3 straight crucial games and kick themselves out of contention. Well done Ned.

[TooLiveBrew]

Yost, in reviewing his behavior this week, said he would not have done anything differently.

That's from AJAY's linked NY Times article, and this, my friends, is all you need to know about Yost. Even if he can literally see his hunches/suppositions play out in an ineffective/failed way, he still believes he was correct to play them, as opposed to baseball. This man has not learned and will not learn. If he were able to learn, he would have done so by now. Time to get a real leader - instead of a back-patter - in the clubhouse for 2008.

[bigbrewkahuna]

If Yost is a bad manager and needs to be fired as many claim,then shouldn't Melvin be fired for making the bad decision of retaining such a lousy manager in Yost?

[jeffy]

If Yost is a bad manager and needs to be fired as many claim,then shouldn't Melvin be fired for making the bad decision of retaining such a lousy manager in Yost?

 

Yost was a good manager when the goal was developing players. He is still managing as if that is the goal. That is why he is no longer the right man for the job.

 

He also seems to have cracked under the pressure of a pennant race.

[Fatter than Joey]

shouldn't Melvin be fired for making the bad decision of retaining such a lousy manager in Yost?

 

Yes. If I were Mark A., and if Melvin retained Yost, I'd fire Melvin 5 minutes later.

[bklynbrewcrew]

There is absolutely no way to sugarcoat this situation. Yost has had 5 years to show that he is the right man for the job. Yet managing a team with a boatload of talent he cant get them to win the weakest division in baseball. This division was practically handed to us and we completely choked it away. The excuse "its a young team" doesnt fly whatsoever since it was the young players who completely carried the team down the stretch. Yost has continued to make the same mistakes game after game year after year. If you havent learned how to manage in 5 yrs its time to turn the page. Frank Kremblas and Bobby Valentine are two fantastic choices who I truly believe would lead this team to a playoff berth next season. If Melvin cant see that Ned has failed miserably he can go as well and be replaced by Jack Z. Its not like Melvin has done a good job the last year or so anyway. I believe that Melvin should return because overall he has done a good job but if he cant see that Ned is Lost he needs to go as well.

[RU Rah Rah]

OK, I officially don't feel bad about second-guessing Ned. Even his own wife is doing it, for crying out loud.

 

Is it possible that Mark A. might feel compelled to nix Ned if he's perceived nationally as a kind of laughingstock?

[pebadger]

Would you guys trade Ned straight up for Willie Randolph?

 

I'm not being sarcastic here, it's an honest question.

 

FWIW, my estimation of Yost has steadily declined to the point where about a month ago I lost any remainining shred of confidence I had that he could get the job done here. I'm sure he has some fine qualities, but it appears that actual high pressure game management isn't one of them. Right now, this team needs a guy like that, even if he only stays for a few years and then wears out his welcome.

 

I guess the nightmare scenario for many is that Ned stays, the team succeeds in spite of him next year and gets to the NLCS, and suddenly we're looking at a new long-term deal, over the time of which a genuine opportunity to have a good long run turns into a period of sporadic, underachieving 'success'. Then the young guys leave for greener pastures and we're back to square 1.

[sheethead]

That's from AJAY's linked NY Times article, and this, my friends, is all you need to know about Yost. Even if he can literally see his hunches/suppositions play out in an ineffective/failed way, he still believes he was correct to play them, as opposed to baseball. This man has not learned and will not learn. If he were able to learn, he would have done so by now. Time to get a real leader - instead of a back-patter - in the clubhouse for 2008.

 

I couldn't have said it better or more clearer than this.

[pebadger]

Without getting into anything political, I think some parallels can be drawn between this manager, an American president and an overseas military conflict.

[sheethead]

I think you just got political. I tried that a bit once, it doesn't work very well.

[BrewCityUnit]

If 90% of your fan base thinks a manager should be gone, then I think it is safe to say that he should be gone.

 

 

With that being said, there is 100% chance Ned is cominng back. I can promise you that.

[bball123h2]

I had a conversation with a random fan on the walk back to the car yesterday, about Yost. Now, while I'm not a huge fan, this guy was trying to convice me that Yost cost us 25 games this year.

 

Random fan: "He always leaves in Turnbow after a walk! That alone is like 15 games."

 

Me: "Turnbow has had a rough season, but what is his alternative? What would you have done? The bullpen has been horrid, except for Cordero, and Shouse for a time."

 

Random fan: "25 games! We could have clinched in early September!"

 

Me: "Yea, but what was Ned's alternative?"

 

RF: "They gotta fire that bum!"

 

Me: gives up

 

 

The thing about firing Yost, at least in my mind, is that he seems to have a great relationship with the young players (also know as our core), and there is no possible way we could know what goes on behind the scenes during games. Maybe Gross had drank some water laced with crypto when he sent Mench in to pinch hit against the righty. There is just no way we have all the information at our disposal that he does.

 

That said, I'm not sure keeping him or firing him makes a difference anyways. Maybe we just need to hire some former CIA agent to keep an eye on our team on the road to make sure they actually take a nap between games.

[sheethead]

With that being said, there is 100% chance Ned is cominng back. I can promise you that.

 

That's bold. If you are not an extreme insider, I don't see how anyone can be that sure. Taking a step back an evaluating the situation and how the season played out down the stretch I don't see how they can bring him back. He has proved that he can't handle pressure situations, will be constantly outmanaged, and has a fragile psyche. He will never be able to lead this team to where we - including Mark A. - all want it to go.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I have a fear that Ned's replacement is going to be Willie Randolph. I believe that Melvin might have played with Randolph in the Yankees organization (although im not certain of this) and Mark A grew up a Yankees fan and probably liked Randolph as a player. This would be another disaster in the making as Randolph has been part of a humongous collapse and he cant handle a bullpen either. The next manager needs to be either Frank Kremblas or Bobby Valentine. My vote is for Kremblas.

[BrewCityUnit]

That's bold. If you are not an extreme insider, I don't see how anyone can be that sure. Taking a step back an evaluating the situation and how the season played out down the stretch I don't see how they can bring him back. He has proved that he can't handle pressure situations, will be constantly outmanaged, and has a fragile psyche. He will never be able to lead this team to where we - including Mark A. - all want it to go.

 

I am sticking by my 100% guarantee. Yost is coming back.

[Jay Zahn]

Most of what the manager does revolves around the clubhouse. Except for the rare few that can make a 10+ year run, they're a cheerleader or fiery guy or laid back or old-timer or some combination of all. When the team falls into a rut or the manager becomes too much of a distraction it's time to make a move.

 

Moves are way over rated. That genius Harvey Kuenn had to make so many moves. Boy that was a tough lineup to fill out - Hall of Famer, Hall of Famer, All Star, All Star, All Star, All Star. What about the bullpen? Whoops - another Hall of Famer. Tough decisions there.

 

At the end of the season Yost had about three options in the bullpen that were any good. Yost used Cordero like every other team uses their closer and it looks bad when the set-up guys can't ever get you to your closer. Linebrink was just okay, and this is the only year that Shouse has ever been able to get a righthander out. So Yost chooses someone when he has no options, the team blows the lead, and fans blame the manager.

 

I am a little surprised that more blame doesn't accrue to some of the other players that didn't contribute very much during the second half, like Sheets, Jenkins, Hall, and Estrada. Nice work, veterans.

[sheethead]

Jay, most fans do blame the players as well. It was their performance that ultimately cost the division. This does not let the manager off the hook for the numerous occasions that he failed in his duty to the team. Players will be shuffled, and the manager should also be shuffled. He simply can't handle his job. Plain. And. Simple.

[jason21nl]

I don't get the argument that the players seem to like him, or they play hard for him. I have not seen anywhere where they have really backed their manager. The only thing I remember during the season is when Hardy was being yelled at and Estrada and Graffy came to his defense. They are young players, if anything I would think they would be sick of this guy and his moves. They have to be thinking in the back of their head, why would you make so and so move when it hasn't worked out all year. Of course we aren't in the club house, so we have no clue either way if they like him, or don't like him, but I would bet they aren't Yost fans either.