Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 3)

[logan82]

All this complaining about pitching choices as the cause of the loss last night is overlooking one major thing. They only scored 3 runs. One of those was in a garbage time situation in the bottom of the 9th.

 

So that means Pujols, who was intentionally hit with no body on base, scored the winning run. Case closed.

 

That third run, like I said was scored in a garbage time situation where if the score was closer, I doubt we get it.

[bjkrautk]

All this complaining about pitching choices as the cause of the loss last night is overlooking one major thing. They only scored 3 runs. One of those was in a garbage time situation in the bottom of the 9th.

 

So that means Pujols, who was intentionally hit with no body on base, scored the winning run. Case closed.

Hammer meets nail head dead center.

 

...only if you presume that Weeks would have scored from 1st on Braun's single (or that Ricky would have stolen 2b were it not for the Defensive Indifference).

 

Why is the critique not based on results, as opposed to whether or not he's thinking?

Because it's impossible to test how often the 'right' decision would have resulted in a more favorable outcome.

 

The more I've talked about this whole thing, I think that's what it really boils down to, deciding to use Turnbow after the plunking. Which isn't to say we had another great option, but at the very least you should know you're putting Turnbow into a spot he normally melts down in. As I said to another post today, if Turnbow had been brought in to actually pitch to Pujols, and walked him, lately they pull him right there. This time, we brought him in instead. That was the mistake on Yost's part.

 

I'd argue that the situations in which Turnbow struggles are the ones in which he puts the runner on 1b...and second...which is slightly different. (If you look at the game log, he's given up 2 BB in each of his partial-inning appearances this month, except for the 9/19 game against the Astros, when he came into the inning with 1 out.) That being said, I at least understand where you're coming from.

[danzig6767]

All this complaining about pitching choices as the cause of the loss last night is overlooking one major thing. They only scored 3 runs. One of those was in a garbage time situation in the bottom of the 9th.

 

So that means Pujols, who was intentionally hit with no body on base, scored the winning run. Case closed.

That third run, like I said was scored in a garbage time situation where if the score was closer, I doubt we get it.

 

 

The point isn't that the many boneheaded moves by Ned the last few weeks surely cost the team X number of wins,obviously we can't predict for sure what would have happened instead.The point is that these moves like last night for example,aren't putting the team in the best chance to win and MAY HAVE cost us some wins.

If a football coach decides to go for it on 4th and 19 at their own 30 yard line and doesn't get the first down,even though it's a close game and 10 minutes are left.That may not be a sure fire game losing choice since the game isn't over,but it's still a dumb move that doesn't put the team in the best spot to win the game.Make head scratching choices like that to often,fans have every reason to question how competent that coach is even if an exact number of losses can't be put on his dumb moves.

Odds are we would have lost yesterday regardless of Yost absolutely brainfarting by hitting Albert on purpose.Simple history shows that all teams lose the majority of games when trailing after seven innings,even if only down a run.That fact doesn't make it any less troubling that Ned still pulled that stunt during a vital game that was 3-2 at the time.You would like to think with 5 games left and during such a crucial game that our manager was thinking smart and rationally ,now stewing over a spat with another manager instead.I'll admit upfront that i don't like Ned,but i was still shocked by the stupidity of that stunt.I didn't think even Yost had a move in him that moronic.

 

[windiv07]

Okay, to all the Yost apologists. Was tonight's loss due to him not being there to give moral support to his kids. And if Yost were NOT suspended, what would he have done differently to win this one?

[tigerbrew]

Man, it's depressing to think that Yost will be back next season. I seriously hope and implore Melvin and Attanasio to remove their vote of confidence to Yost, please replace Yost before 2008 begins.

[TooLiveBrew]

http://www.steevven1.com/images/NEIGH%21%21%21.jpg

 

 

NEIGHHH!

 

 

[jlau20]

Ned is getting ripped apart on BBTN right now by Olney and Orel. Somewhat makes my night better.

[jason21nl]

Ned is getting ripped apart on BBTN right now by Olney and Orel. Somewhat makes my night better.

 

its funny too. I'm happy that he is getting heat for this. being tossed 3 times in the last 4 games he has managed shows a huge lack of leadership. How can you bring this dope back?

[strawbossisevil]

Isn't this whole thread kind of pointless now that we know he's coming back for next season. Maybe someone could start a "complaining that Ned Yost is coming back next season thread" so we can have all the negativity head over there.

[DougJones43]

Isn't this whole thread kind of pointless now that we know he's coming back for next season.

Right.....because nobody has ever been fired after being given a vote of confidence. Especially when immidiately following that show of support, they promptly act like such an ass that they are only allowed to manage 1 full game out of 5 in the midst of a pennant race.

 

Of course Mark A. was going to say "he's fine," or whatever it was he mumbled when he was put on the spot. He's smart enough not to say/do something stupid that would cause a major distraction during the last week of the season. Unfortunately, not everybody was blessed with that kind of mental capacity...

[trwi7]

I have a horrible feeling that Yost will be fired and Sveum will be hired to replace him. Anybody else get that feeling? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[trwi7]

Ned is getting ripped apart on BBTN right now by Olney and Orel. Somewhat makes my night better.

 

Can you or anyone who saw it recap what they said?

[DougJones43]

I have a horrible feeling that Yost will be fired and Sveum will be hired to replace him. Anybody else get that feeling? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

 

I'd guess there is virtually no chance of that happening. I think if Ned doesn't stay, there will be some big-time housecleaning, and a whole new staff will be brought in (although Skaalen will probably stay).

[TooLiveBrew]

Why would Skaalen stay? Our team has been as free-swinging as ever, and likely the most in the last two or three years. He was touted as bringing a solid approach at the plate, and that's been absolutely invisible save Prince & Rickie in the second half.

[jlau20]

Ned is getting ripped apart on BBTN right now by Olney and Orel. Somewhat makes my night better.

Can you or anyone who saw it recap what they said?

Mentioned some stuff about how when you have younger players getting tossed three out of four games probably isn't the best idea, then add on to that the suspension. Talked about how that means Ned has missed 15 of of the last 45 innings of his young team's games while they are in the middle of a playoff race. Criticized him for throwing at Pujols which led to that huge inning, Orel says stuff like that can wait, months or even years. Yada, yada, yada. I'm not saying the analysts on ESPN are the most credible people to be listening to, but it was interesting to actually hear Ned get criticized by someone not in the dugout on a couch.

 

[DougJones43]

Why would Skaalen stay? Our team has been as free-swinging as ever, and likely the most in the last two or three years. He was touted as bringing a solid approach at the plate, and that's been absolutely invisible save Prince & Rickie in the second half.

 

True. They are still 5th in the NL in runs scored and 4th in OPS though. It certainly wouldn't hurt them to walk more and carry a higher team batting average, but they're leading the league in HR, and are only in the middle of the pack for strikouts, so it's not as if they've been just swinging wildly without results. I'd be pretty satisfied if the team put up similar offensive numbers next year. I think they did better this year than they were projected to.

 

Also, Skaalen has a history with many of the players, and obviously would fit in nicely if somebody like Kremblas got the managerial job.

[bigredrobbo]

I love how the BBTN analysts are useless goats unless they are making points that back up certain posters' arguments.

 

A lot of this collapse IMO is down to youth, pure and simple. The Indians were in the same position a couple of years ago (huge potential, younger manager, lots of kids) and couldn't get it done. Fast forward to 2007 and that extra experience for what is essentially the same core is rewarded with a playoff berth.

[trwi7]

I love how the BBTN analysts are useless goats unless they are making points that back up certain posters' arguments.

 

A lot of this collapse IMO is down to youth, pure and simple. The Indians were in the same position a couple of years ago (huge potential, younger manager, lots of kids) and couldn't get it done. Fast forward to 2007 and that extra experience for what is essentially the same core is rewarded with a playoff berth.

 

How are you blaming youth? Weeks, Hardy, Braun, Fielder, Hart are the main producers on offense Gallardo and Villanueva have been the only ones producing in the rotation no the problem definitely isn't youth.

[bklynbrewcrew]

With this choke job down the stretch I dont see any way that Attanasio and Melvin can justify bringing yost back next season. When you actually sit down and analyze the situation closely it is obvious that this team had a ridiculously good opportunity to win this lousy division and only ridiculously bad play in the second half has stopped that from happening. yost has shown time and time again that he is completely clueless so he really must go. Nay nay nay nay nay!

[Fatter than Joey]

I love how the BBTN analysts are useless goats unless they are making points that back up certain posters' arguments.

 

No -- they are always useless goats -- I think the point being made, is that they have noticed Ned, and it's just not BF.net/intertube people that are pointing out Ned's stupidity.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I find it funny how Yost and dopes like Haudricourt are constantly bringing up fan and internet criticism of his managing style as meaning nothing all while ignoring the fact that Yost has also been trashed by the national media time and time again. Yost acts like only the "manager wannabee" fans see issue with his managing when in fact it is the entire baseball community that knows the man is clueless. Please Mark A and Doug Melvin wake up and smell the coffee; its time to move forward and this team cant do that with Ned Lost as manager.

[windiv07]

Mentioned some stuff about how when you have younger players getting tossed three out of four games probably isn't the best idea, then add on to that the suspension. Talked about how that means Ned has missed 15 of of the last 45 innings of his young team's games while they are in the middle of a playoff race. Criticized him for throwing at Pujols which led to that huge inning, Orel says stuff like that can wait, months or even years. Yada, yada, yada. I'm not saying the analysts on ESPN are the most credible people to be listening to, but it was interesting to actually hear Ned get criticized by someone not in the dugout on a couch.

Oral Hurshizer iz jest a nuther internet manijjer wannabe mundee mornin corterback hoo never manijjed a inning of mayjer leeg baseball in his life. An besides, he wuzz jest a pitcher wenn HE played. What do THEY noe ennaway? He iz az stoopid (if not stoopidder cuz hees awn TV) az us nay-Ned posters wenn it **** two manijjing Ned's spayshul kidz. Hoo in the wide wide wurrlda sports duz he think he iz? Good thang Mark Anteenozzee-o (hoo promissed us awl playoffs or bust) noes bettur or weed be in one heck of a pickle write nayo ensetedda too games out with 3 lefta play. We got that goin fer us and everboddy noes the math iz awn OUR side two. Its az plane az the noze on yer fayce, Oral.

[jeffy]

Isn't this whole thread kind of pointless now that we know he's coming back for next season.

Right.....because nobody has ever been fired after being given a vote of confidence. Especially when immidiately following that show of support, they promptly act like such an ass that they are only allowed to manage 1 full game out of 5 in the midst of a pennant race.

 

Of course Mark A. was going to say "he's fine," or whatever it was he mumbled when he was put on the spot. He's smart enough not to say/do something stupid that would cause a major distraction during the last week of the season. Unfortunately, not everybody was blessed with that kind of mental capacity...

 

If he does go, it would be a bonus that one of the pathetic J-S excuses for a reporter has said that this "Ned is fine" means Ned is certain to be retained. Is this reporter dumb enough to think that Mark A is going to say something like "I'm thinking of firing Ned" or even "Ned may or may not be back next year, that decision will be made after the season ends"?

 

I wonder if Chicago reporters were running around looking for anything that would allow them to say Dusty Baker would be back, just so they could show up all the dumb manager wannabees on those interwebs.

 

Another possibility would be Yost resigning because of a nervous breakdown (or to avoid the possibility of one in the future).

[bklynbrewcrew]

Well I just wondered what some national writers thought on the Yost situation so I submitted this question on an espn.com chat

 

 

JB NYC: Please tell me that Ned Yost will be fired at the end of the season

 

Jerry Crasnick: (12:10 PM ET ) JB,

 

Sorry, no can do. GM Doug Melvin has been unwavering in his support of Yost, and owner Mark Attanasio gave Ned his second vote of confidence this week. Plus, Yost is under contract one more year. It looks as if he'll be staying for 2008.

[sheethead]

I wonder what Ned will have in store for us tonight on this his third to last game as a big league manager. I also wonder which third base he will be coaching next year. Ah the farewell to Ned tour begins...