Ned Yost Yay or Nay thread: Hardball Times rips Yost (part 3)

[windiv07]

Okay, this is my final post of 2007 in this thread so listen up...

Ned Yost, Yay of Nay?

Let me qualify what I am about to say:

Given the player roster (age, experience, and overall & clutch talent) Ned had to work with, the injuries, the AAA & AA help he had to call up during the year, the in-game breaks he was faced with, the home schedule & the road schedule, the starting rotation, and the bullpen...here is my final and irreversible conclusion:

[windiv07]

(drum roll, maestro)

[windiv07]

but first a message to Mark A. & Doug M....

 

Don't prolong the agony. Please don't Yost us again.

 

---

NAY

[sgtcluels]

According to Drew Olson on Bob and Brian this morning, Yost will be back, but DM will keep him on a "short leash" for next year. Sounds like if we don't come out of the gates exploding he's done. Starting well doesn't seem to bhe the problem, its winning in the second half of the season.

 

DM is having a press conference on Wednesday, probably to give a season wrap up and talk about the future.. but maybe..just maybe... they'll announced Giraldi or Kremblas.

[Fatter than Joey]

Yost will be back, but DM will keep him on a "short leash" for next year. Sounds like if we don't come out of the gates exploding he's done.

 

What is the point of this? (I don't doubt this is a likely scenario)

 

So basically when the Brewers go on some sort of losing streak Ned will get fired? I am all for Ned getting canned, but what advantage is there to doing it mid-season and having some sort of interim manager.

 

We are setting up a scenario where Ned goes to spring training sets up his team, the team starts the year 5-10 and Ned gets fired, and Dale Sveum is our interim manager for 2008?

 

If you thought there was a good chance your manager would not last the AS Break, why not hire a new manager in the offseason and let them setup and get to know the team in ST?

 

It is undeniable that the tide turned against Ned in 2007 -- The "fire ned" crowd has grown exponentially in 2007, while I don't think the pro-Yost church has any new converts. There will be

a lot of heat/pressure on Ned in April, unlike his previous Aprils.

 

It could get ugly.

[1992casey]

DougJones, you make me laugh. If I weren't convinced of your masculinity I would guess that you were some girl Ned Yost stood up for your junior prom.

 

Ad hominem condescension that qualifies as a strike violation. Check the discussion rules.

[bklynbrewcrew]

This whole idea of the Brewers having to get off to a good start in order for Yost to keep his job makes no sense at all. First of all its the second half of the year that is Yost's undoing not the first. Secondly I completely agree with FTJ about the whole interim thing. The last thing this team needs is to get off to a slow start and have Sveum as an interim manager. If Melvin is smart he wont take the chance that Ned finally learns how to manage a team since he has had 5 years to improve and hasnt done so. Now is the time where it is easy to find great managerial candidates while if you wait till next year you are stuck with an interim guy like Sveum. This "short lease" idea makes absolutely no sense. Come on Doug do the right thing and hire Kremblas to replace Ned.

[bklynbrewcrew]

How exactly does Haudricourt write this article detailing all of the Brewers failings yet lets Yost escape any criticism whatsoever. Its unbelievable how Yost goes unscathed by the Milwaukee media.

[gregmag]

Yeah, I also absolutely agree with FTJ about the "short leash" thing. Ned has managed this team for five years; the personnel are largely in place. He is what he is. Either commit to stick with him, or can him now and get a new on-field management team in place to start spring training. Indecisiveness would hardly help to legitimate firing the manager. In fact, this is such a bad idea that I'm inclined to think Olson doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

Greg.

[olliegjw]

I have seen Yost bashed a number of times in IGT's and probably in this thread too (I'm too lazy to look through the whole thing) about not bringing Cordero in, on the road, in tie ball games. Just wanted to point out that, in a winner take all game last night, the Padres held off on using Hoffman until they took the lead in the 13th inning. Posters on here would have been begging for Cordero to be in there in the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th innings if the Brewers were in that situation.

[bigredrobbo]

I have seen Yost bashed a number of times in IGT's and probably in this thread too (I'm too lazy to look through the whole thing) about not bringing Cordero in, on the road, in tie ball games. Just wanted to point out that, in a winner take all game last night, the Padres held off on using Hoffman until they took the lead in the 13th inning. Posters on here would have been begging for Cordero to be in there in the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th innings if the Brewers were in that situation.

And then after the blown save it would be Yost's fault for waiting that long to bring him in. After all, he warmed up on three different occasions - he was obviously spent!

[dpapo]

Now that the season is over, I'm still in the nay camp. It wouldn't surprise me if Yost is brought back with a contract extension or without one and on a short lease. In public, Mark A. seems to like Yost as manager of the team. Melvin on the other hand has said some good things about Yost, which you would expect, but has also been somewhat critical of him here and there. I'm not sure if that is a sign that Melvin has his doubts about Yost or if that is just Melvin's style.
Melvin has praised Yost for the development or at least for the way he has allowed for the development of the younger players. Having patience with them and allowing them to learn and grow. He also has said that the players seem to play for him. Then again, he also said that if players were unhappy, he would probably be the last person to know about it. However, it seems the younger players like to play for him, it may be a different story with some of the veterans. Overall though, from what Mark A. and Melvin have said, it seems the players like playing for him.
Melvin though has also been critical of Yost at times. For how often Yost changes the lineups and for taking Capuano out of the starting rotation. And he mentioned how even Yost himself has admitted to some X's and O's mistakes he has made.
Along those lines, even Tom Haudricourt who has defended Yost time and again was even somewhat critical of how Yost used the bullpen. He actually defended him more than was critical, but it's about as critical as Haudricourt will probably ever be about Yost.
"An overworked Turnbow also hit the skids (9.35 ERA) in the final month, making it even tougher for Yost to bridge the gap from starting pitcher to Cordero. Yost was accused of "bullpen mismanagement" and did make curious decisions at times but the fact of the matter was the number of viable alternatives decreased dramatically."

I think the Brewers are now in a position that they need to take that next step up. Not only with whatever additional players they add to the roster, but also with the manager. A manager that can best take them to that next step. I don't think Yost is that manager. Do I think the Brewers can make it to the playoffs with Yost as manager, yea. I may not be a Yost supporter, but I know that a team with a bad manager can still make it to the playoffs if it's good enough. However, I don't want the Brewers to take that chance, or end up firing Yost next June if they really have doubts about him.

There seems to have been a lot of emotions and frustrations about Yost this past year. Whether you think Yost if a good or bad manager, it's all just our opinions. Most of us don't even work in baseball, so if someone disagrees with me, I try not to take it personally. Doesn't mean I'm right and they're wrong. I've been on the other end where people have felt highly motional and frustrated with someone that I didn't think deserved it. Even if I don't agree with someone, I at least try to take the time to read what they wrote and consider it, just like I hope people would do the same with whatever I may write. Sometimes someone writes something that makes me rethink how I feel about something. And no matter how much I disagree with someone, I try to consider how I would feel if someone wrote me the way I may have responded. In the end we all want the Brewers to be successful.

[logan82]

I have seen Yost bashed a number of times in IGT's and probably in this thread too (I'm too lazy to look through the whole thing) about not bringing Cordero in, on the road, in tie ball games. Just wanted to point out that, in a winner take all game last night, the Padres held off on using Hoffman until they took the lead in the 13th inning. Posters on here would have been begging for Cordero to be in there in the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th innings if the Brewers were in that situation.

This goes back to my whole Yost is about the same as any other manager theory. I have to agree that the worst thing to do wold be to fire a manager midseason. That doesn't sound like somthing Melvin would do anyway so it really doesn't worry me.

 

I know people will hate this, but we have to face it, Ned has only really had 2 years now where he had to manage to win. The first 3 years we were a AAAA team developing players and valued playing time over wins.

[patrickgpe]

Yost will be back, but DM will keep him on a "short leash" for next year

I hate this philosophy. If that is your attutude, he should be fired now. If we start off slow, and Ned is let go, we loose an entire season with the kids. I am convinced Ned is a better manager than Sveun. Since you can't get anyone good in May, it would make sense just to start a new in April.

[sheethead]

Why hasn't he been fired yet? Why? Why? Why?

[TooLiveBrew]

My guess on the 'short leash', if it's indeed true, is an umbrella policy for DM. If the team starts slowly, can Yost, prove you're 'proactive' on the situation, then if they continue to underachieve with Sveum, DM can fall back on the fact that he was forced to go with an interim manager - and serach for a new head honcho in the following offseason, thus buying himself at least one more year.

 

Not sure if that's it or not, but it certainly is conceivable that if DM brought in someone new this offseason, and the team didn't have success in 2008, the GM's head could be the one on the chopping block. I think saying your manager has a short leash is a slippery slope. Perhaps this is a precursor to some sort of, "Well, after we re-evaluated and really closely examined the season, we feel that Yost is not the best candidate for the job..." turn of the tide sometime over the winter. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[shelmark]

First winning season since 1992. No way he gets fired, whether we think he should or whether he actually should, it isn't going to happen.

[sheethead]

First winning season since 1992. No way he gets fired, whether we think he should or whether he actually should, it isn't going to happen.

 

Negativity like this makes me sad.

[Baldkin]

Nay.

 

Unless they hire someone specifically to manage the bullpen.

 

"Players love playing for Ned." I've only heard that about hitters on the team.

 

I wonder about the pitchers, especially the guys in the bullpen who all set career highs for appearances and as a result burnt out during the stretch.

 

I love how Hardicourt blames it on Turnbow, as if he as any choice of being overworked when Ned brings him out there 80 or so times this year.

[clancyphile]

I vote yea.

 

The talent was there - and Yost cannot stop Sheets, Capuano, Graffanino, Weeks, and Hall from getting hurt. Take away two of those injuries, and the Brewers are division champs and in the post-season.

 

The injuries are enough for me to give him another year.

[brains and braun]

Disagree, Clancy. The Crew was relatively injury-free. If we are giving Ned a free pass based on this season's injuries, he'll be happy to know he's now manager for life. We should still be playing. Ned has to man up for once and accept some blame.

[1992casey]

Why hasn't he been fired yet? Why? Why? Why?

Because Mark Attanasio said he wouldn't be fired?

 

[AJAY]

Interesting how the national media just assumes that the Brewers can't be happy with Yost. It is so obvious to everyone else how badly Ned handled things this season.

 

Joe Torre's name comes up as a possible replacement for Ned in this article.

 

It's time for Yankees to reward Torre

[AJAY]

By the way, I am not crazy about putting Ned on a "short leash" for next season. I would rather fire him now and give the new guy the whole offseason to watch video of the team and learn about these players. I also think they can sell more tickets if they market the new manager as the guy who will put this team over the top.

[joeyhepatitis]

I have seen Yost bashed a number of times in IGT's and probably in this thread too (I'm too lazy to look through the whole thing) about not bringing Cordero in, on the road, in tie ball games. Just wanted to point out that, in a winner take all game last night, the Padres held off on using Hoffman until they took the lead in the 13th inning. Posters on here would have been begging for Cordero to be in there in the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th innings if the Brewers were in that situation.

I'm pretty sure most San Diego fans realize that Bell, Brocail, and, well, most everyone else in the bullpen has better stuff than Hoffman at this point in his career. The Padres are handcuffed to Hoffman in the closer role because I don't think they have the guts to bench the all-time saves leader, but they benefit from the situation, as well as teams like the Indians and the Cubs, where their best relievers are middle-relief guys who can go multiple innings and are available in the highest leverage situations regardless of the inning.

 

I'd appreciate it if you don't put words into people's mouths if you don't understand the arguments they're making about Yost's mismanagement of the bullpen. I'd still say that with the Brewers bullpen you'd have to use Cordero earlier because the bullpen just isn't as deep or as good as the Padres - I mean, the fact that Yost would manage the Brewers bullpen the same way as the Black manages the Padres illustrates Yost's compete inability to create strategies that would cater towards his own team and their own needs to be successful.