Impressions of Roenicke so far (part 2)

[endaround]

The fact that Axford was comfortable coming with guys on base despite his ability to be wild is what makes him so great. Too bad we'll likely never see that again.

[RockCoCougars]

RoCoBrewfan]

RockCoCougars wrote: My guess is that as a closer, he's probably more comfortable coming in to begin an inning (which seems odd, but that's the way the closer role is in today's game).

I don't think that seems odd at all. I think most relievers would tell you that they'd prefer to come in with nobody on base.

Coming in with guys on base I'm sure, is tough. You're not responsible for those guys, but I'm sure you feel bad if someone else's ERA gets jacked because you couldn't hold an inherited runner.

 

I know these guys should just 'perform', but I think inherited runners is definitely something that can easily affect the human element/mental part of the game.

Right. I was commenting more on the way the closer role has (d)evolved over the past 30 or so years, from the 'Fireman' type pitcher who may come in the game in the 8th or even (gasp) the 7th inning with guys on base to put out the fire, as opposed to guys these days who get plopped in the 9th with their team up 3 or less runs.

[Raw Biz]

For the record, I never said (or didn't mean to if I did) that bringing in KRod was stupid. I really don't like Roenicke but I understand why he did it. But KRod has also shown some tendency to implode (Schroeder was talking last night about how Roenicke told him it's "a wild ride" watching him pitch). So I would've at least seen what Narveson had to start the 8th. Like I said it's not really a stupid move, I just would've done something different. If Roenicke didn't make so many other stupid decisions this year, I probably wouldn't care as much.

[topper09er]

Just off the top of my head, is RRR 2 for 3 using his 5 man IF? I remember a loss via an Orlando Hudson walk-off in SD, but the Josh Wilson game-winning HR game in FLA and last night resulted in 0 runs being scored with the 5 man IF. I feel like there may be 1 more?

[TooLiveBrew]

The five-man infield really didn't have anything directly to do with the outs recorded in the 9th last night, fwiw

[fondybrewfan]

I don't know; wouldn't have Casey been a bit more off the line in the normal set up? He was more or less standing on 3rd in the 9th inning. If he would have been a couple steps off; Upton probably would have taken a shot at home.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ack. I only saw that play on replays (got home with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th). So I probably should've just shut up about it.

[monty57]

I thought Ned Yost was the only manager who would let a pitcher bat, and then pull him from the game before the next inning.

 

With this year's bench and the pitchers' ability to hit, I understand keeping our pitchers in to hit, and would probably use pitchers to pinch hit fairly often.

[RockCoCougars]

I'll take Narvy at the plate ahead of Counsell that's for sure.

[brewtank34]

The five-man infield really didn't have anything directly to do with the outs recorded in the 9th last night, fwiw

Yes it does/did. It affects the mind frame of the batter drastically. Yes, they're professionals but I don't think you'll be able to sell me that a batter isn't thinking of a 5 man infield when he's waiting for the pitch.

 

[jason21nl]

I don't think it affects the mind frame at all. It's just like when teams throw a defensive shift on players, they'll still try to hit it through the shift.

[brewtank34]

Yeah, and they normally end up hitting exactly into the shift.

[jason21nl]

Whether they hit it into the shift or not it doesn't change the hitters way of thinking. Hitters are going to try to hit the ball hard regardless. Bringing in the outfielder is just trying to prevent a ground ball finding a hole, not to change what the batter is trying to do

[Menace II Sobriety]

Whether they hit it into the shift or not it doesn't change the hitters way of thinking. Hitters are going to try to hit the ball hard regardless. Bringing in the outfielder is just trying to prevent a ground ball finding a hole, not to change what the batter is trying to do

I think you are very wrong. If Nyjer comes to the plate and sees the 3rd baseman playing deep he will try to drop a bunt to that side. If there is an extra man in the infield and 2 guys filling the gaps most players would try to get the ball into the outfield anywhere except the gaps as that is where the outfielders would be. If there is a runner on second with less than 2 outs the first thing on their mind should be ground ball to the right side to advance the runner unless they get something to put a major swing on. Worst case scenario they advance the runner.

 

Of course they want to hit the ball hard but the main concern is to hit for the situation for most players. Obviously a guy like Braun or Fielder hit away but for most teams 6 of 9 guys on the team have to hit for the context of the game. Teams only put the shift on the best hitters on a team and most of the time they try to beat the shift because an extra base hit is obviously better than your 4 hitter taking singles the opposite way that is why they leave it open for them. It should be obvious that every player in the MLB looks at the defensive alignment when they are walking to the plate and that effects how they approach their at bat.

[logan82]

most teams 6 of 9 guys on the team have to hit for the context of the game

 

I doubt that. I think that is just more baseball dogma. This my have been the case a long time ago but I think most players probably try to drive the ball as best they can in almost every PA.

[Menace II Sobriety]

most teams 6 of 9 guys on the team have to hit for the context of the game

 

I doubt that. I think that is just more baseball dogma. This my have been the case a long time ago but I think most players probably try to drive the ball as best they can in almost every PA.

So you believe that baseball players just go up to the plate and try to hit the ball hard without any context, scenario, or situation? If they get a grooved fastball or the exact breaking pitch they are looking for of course they try to hammer it, but to think that most players step up to the plate without a game plan in mind taking into the positioning of the defense is very hard for me to believe.

[topper09er]

So you believe that baseball players just go up to the plate and try to hit the ball hard without any context, scenario, or situation?

I think this is what all major league baseball players do, they all try to hit HRs every at bat.

[logan82]

So you believe that baseball players just go up to the plate and try to hit the ball hard without any context, scenario, or situation?

I think this is what all major league baseball players do, they all try to hit HRs every at bat.

I said they try to drive the ball, not hit a HR. Outside of a few guys like YunE-6, who swings at practically everything, I think most guys try to get a good pitch to drive.

[docduany]

I really disagree with RR's removing Narveson & Marcum during their last starts. Neither was for a pinch hitter at a crucial time of the game. Both had pitch counts in good/great shape and both were cruising. Why not let a guy finish what he started? Save K-Rod/ Axford for another day?

[logan82]

I really don't have a huge problem with removing both guys. Your reliever is going to come in and be better than a guy going through the order for a 3rd or 4th time. Neither are really ace level pitchers.

[M Skjellyfetti]

I thought removing Marcum was fine....he had given up 5 or 6 deep fly balls in the last 2 innings, including the Rowand HR. I wouldn't have called what Marcum was doing last night cruising.

 

Now, as for Roenicke batting Kotsay 3rd, that is always inexcusable. I honestly think he's worse than Yost at tactical managing. At least Ned was willing to try some new things like batting the pitcher 8th.

[DuWayne Steurer]

In the 6th and 7th innings, Marcum gave up several hard hit, long fly ball outs. The only thing that saved him was the huge ballpark. I was honestly surprised he was brought out for the 7th.

 

Pitch counts/good shape, whatever. We have what is supposed to be now a 'lights out' 8th and 9th inning combo.

 

There's no reason to over-extend our starters for 8+ innings when you should expect K-Rod or Axford's 1st inning of work to be more effective than Marcum or Narveson's 8th inning of work.

[homer]

I really hope that McGehee was caught off third on his own. RR would NEVER call a double steal with the slowest dude on the squad at third would he? Would he????

[brewtank34]

Regardless, a coach is supposed to make sure their players have the fundamentals down. 2 innings in a row making the last out at 3rd is inexcusable.

[rluzinski]

Being aggressive with sending runners home with one out is not smart at all.