Impressions of Roenicke so far (part 2)

[brewtank34]

We are 9.5 up in the division in late August and I think our manager is an unqualified moron.

 

Who would've thought?

 

Roenicke has no redeeming value. Actually, I take that back, he has one, his players respect him and will play hard for him. But that can be had out of any "people person". I'd hate to think that our manager's best quality has absolutely nothing to do with him knowing anything about baseball.

This is by far the most informed, insighful, intellegent comment/post I've ever read on this forum. Not only do you call our manager who got us to a 25 and 5 record in the last month and so many days...a moron (brilliant! I think you perfectly captured his inability to manage a baseball team) but you also challenge his baseball knowlege. You my friend should be a moderator for this forum. I love your takes.

 

 

[DuWayne Steurer]

If Morgan is bunting without managerial approval, perhaps the manager should step in and say "let's not sac bunt in the 1st inning, that's not when we should be playing for one run".

[rluzinski]

Roenicke needs to read "Game Theory For Dummies". You shouldn't always do one thing or another; you have to mix your strategies up. Unfortunately, Roenicke leads the universe in sacrifice bunts because in certain situations, he will almost always call for one. That makes it easy for the opposing manager to go "all in" with their defensive positioning, significantly lowering the probability of a successful bunt. Throw in Prince being the lead runner and Betancourt being the one attempting the sacrifice and it was pretty much doomed from the start.

 

The real disheartening thing about it was that Roenicke had the opportunity to SEE on the first pitch that both corner infielders were aggressively crashing in. He could have made an adjustment but when RR wants a sac bunt, he seems very reluctant to change strategies. He's just way too predictable.

[DuWayne Steurer]

The real disheartening thing about it was that Roenicke had the opportunity to SEE on the first pitch that both corner infielders were aggressively crashing in.

Ding ding ding! Pujols couldn't have been standing more than 30 feet from the plate, if not closer. The only way that bunt was successful was if it absolutely hugged the 3B line, and there's no reason to believe that YuniB has the bat control necessary to be that precise with his bunts. As you stated, there was one pitch that allowed everyone to see exactly how Pujols was playing, and it drastically reduced the chances of bunting there. At LEAST do the ol' butcher boy play there, if nothing else.

[cwolf2012]

"Not only do you call our manager who got us to a 25 and 5 record in the last month and so many days...a moron"

 

Why do people constantly judge the manager on his record? A small child could have managed this team (in game management) to a 25-5 record. I'm sure RRR is great behind the scenes, and especially from a non-tactical standpoint, but his in-game management is really bad.

 

Assuming the only thing we change is in-game management, Ken Macha probably wins 2 or 3 more games this season than RRR.

[LaprilOne]

Just wondering if we sent our best pitcher to bunt, and he takes one of the hand, breaks a finger, what would we call RR then?

[rluzinski]

Just wondering if we sent our best pitcher to bunt, and he takes one of the had, breaks a finger, what would we call RR then?

Unlike Betancourt, NL pitchers know how to bunt.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Just wondering if we sent our best pitcher to bunt, and he takes one of the had, breaks a finger, what would we call RR then?

I don't think people are so much questioning the decision to bunt, they're questioning RR letting Yuni do it. He hasn't bunted all year, and CC was on the bench, is known to be a decent bunter, etc, etc, etc.

[yoshii8]

That was very painful to watch last night. To have Yuni still bunt when he is terrible at it, and the 1st and 3rd basemen are all the way in waiting for the bunt was not a good choice, especially when you had mister fundamental Craig Counsell on your bench.

 

I really hope Roenicke starts making some better decisions before the playoffs. I think they are good enough to get by when there playing the bottom teams, but those decisions will really cost them come playoff time.

 

Also RR, please give Taylor Green an AB, I know he's not a crappy hitting gritty veteran, but he might surprise you.

[yoshii8]

Wow, just read the game story on jsonline, and this part really bothered me. Is Taylor Green not even considered a player?

 

 

 

Roenicke had Craig Counsell - an accomplished bunter - on the bench, but elected not to use him in favor of Betancourt.

 

"We're getting low on players," Roenicke said. "We know we have to run somebody out there. We have the pitcher coming up in a spot, and I used (Mark) Kotsay in a spot. So we'd be out of players."

[markedman5]

He was running out of players yet he decided to use Counsell as a pinch runner after Yuni failed to advance the runners.

 

Its the 9th inning and you are behind.......its ok to use your whole bench....including the rookie you just called up.

[RockCoCougars]

That was a cut and dried bunting situation. The problem is that the corner infielders were playing about 20 feet from the plate. At that point, even I would have probably had Yuni hack away, if for no other reason than increasing the odds that Pujols takes a line drive off his noggin. As for Yuni bunting, he got the bunt down- albeit in a way you are taught in little league not to do- there have been occaisions this season where Counsell couldn't even get a bunt down.

[MarquesJohnson2000]

Roenicke would never consider using Green in a tight game because he's a rookie and it would no doubt ruin his career forever to use him in an important spot so early.

[yoshii8]

It's just amazing to me that he said that he would've been out of players if he used Counsell, like he didn't know that Taylor Green was on his roster. I wonder if a reporter called him out on that?

[fondybrewfan]

In general I have been happy with RR (Just how I am as a fan; its hard not to like a manager when the team is playing so well). My only complaint really is him being so bunt happy (Including the Squeeze play). He plays for one run way to often. Granted there are times when that is OK (I was fine with bunting in the 9th last night) but he goes to the well way to often. I don't know if he is calling all these Morgan bunts; but like has been mentioned previously; he has got to tell Morgan to lay off the bunt if Nyjer is doing that on his own. And when he does call for a bunt; someone has to be up there that can actually do it.

 

I do think that RR has grown quite a bit from the beginning of the year but still has some learning to do. Have the LAA always bunted a lot? Just wondering where he got his obsession from.

[reillymcshane]

In the post game, one of the reporters asked RR why he didn't have a pitcher or someone else bunt for Yuni. RR said something I totally agreed with - that the guy up there, Yuni, should know how to bunt. He's totally right. Yuni should know how to bunt properly. It's a basic fundamental. I don't care if they hadn't called for Yuni to bunt all year, he should know how to do it correctly.

[DuWayne Steurer]

In the post game, one of the reporters asked RR why he didn't have a pitcher or someone else bunt for Yuni. RR said something I totally agreed with - that the guy up there, Yuni, should know how to bunt. He's totally right. Yuni should know how to bunt properly. It's a basic fundamental. I don't care if they hadn't called for Yuni to bunt all year, he should know how to do it correctly.

Should and can are 2 different things.

 

It's Yuni's job to know how to play baseball.

 

It's the managers job to put his guys, and his team, in the best position to succeed, by knowing what their strengths and weaknesses are.

 

You don't run a play asking a guy who shoots 8% from 3-ball land to take the game winning 3 point shot with 3 seconds to play 'because he should be able to'.

[pitchleague]

players should be squaring up in the cage at least twice daily during BP. The coaches should notice that his form is all wrong (wrapping his hand around the barrel) and be correcting him. In other words, doing some coaching to fix a problem.

 

Otherwise, yeah, the bunt was the "right" call for that situation. The player needs to execute. Or at least do a better job of trying. Personally, I'd have sent Counsell up to bunt 'em over, but whatever.

[trwi7]

Once again, after the first pitch and how the Cards were selling all out for the sacrifice bunt, I'm not sure how it was the right decision. At that point you just have him show bunt to draw the infielders in again and then let him swing. Even one of his patented pop ups to the right side has a chance to fall for a hit the way they were playing.

[Mike2k33]

At the beginning of the year when the Brewers were struggling to keep their heads above .500 there were times that Roenicke's tactics made me cringe or dig my finger nails into my skull. The incredible run the team has gone on has made those moments of frustration disappear. However, it only takes one horribly managed game to send all that frustration back to the forefront.

All of RR's "interesting" moves from last night have been discussed and examined so I'm not going to rehash them, however I saw this gem at brewcrewball....

He's now 0-for his last 21, his OBP has dropped to a career-low .267 and he's hitting .102/.117/.203 in his last 15 games. He also hasn't missed a game since July 18.

Why every game Ron? Why?

[FVBrewerFan]

Another point to consider. If he really has no intention of using Green, he could have burned him earlier in the game when he PH Kottaras. As soon as Green is announced, LaRussa would have brought in the LHP. So you burn Green without...gasp...actually let him hit in aMLB game. Now you still have ottaras to use in the 9th.

 

These little things drive me nuts, because RR has become so predictable. When he'll steal a base, when he'll bunt, when he'll squeeze. When Morgan shows bunt virtually every first pitch, it's not going to work as well. Is that not obvious? In the game last night, as has been explained very well in here, there were several moves to be made- especially after the IF was crashing. RR did none of those things, and let a player who can't bunt try to bunt. Of course he should know how, but he doesn't. Neither do a whole lot of MLB players.

 

So you let Yuni swing, replace him with someone else to either swing away or bunt. Most ironic thing about RR's comment is that it wasn't too long ago he successfully used Greinke (German uniform and all) in asimilar situation. So...no you weren't running out of players Ron. Even if you don't consider Green to be a player.

[markedman5]

Shaq should be able to shoot free throws too but that doesn't mean he can.

 

As I recall Phil Jackson used to take him out of games late so they couldn't foul him.

 

He didn't keep him in the game and then watch him miss free throw after free throw when his team had the lead and say afterwards "Shaq needs to be able to make his free throws".

[jmeks23]

I think everyone feels the same about letting Yuni bunt, but is it really all on RR's shoulders? Shouldn't a MLB hitter be able to drop a bunt down without having to burn another player (2 if you use a pitcher)? If Yuni succeeded and they still lost I'm sure no one would be pointing the finger at Roenicke.

 

Obviously I agree that Counsell would've been the better bet to PH, BUT only because RR ended up using Counsell right afterwards to pinch run anyways. Kotsay for JHJ was a bit odd, but he's favored Kotsay all year and Kotsay has come through a couple times.

 

At the end of the day, the Brewers lost on poor execution, and defense. Not managing.

[trwi7]

jmeks23 wrote:

---

Shouldn't a MLB hitter be able to drop a bunt down without having to burn another player (2 if you use a pitcher)?

Once again, should and can are two completely different things. Yes he should, that doesn't mean he can and RRR has to realize that. RRR also has to realize that when the corner infielders come crashing in on a bunt you have to change your strategy. You have to tell him after the first pitch that he has to show bunt and then pull the bat back to give the Cardinals doubt as to whether or not he's actually going to bunt so they don't come crashing in towards the plate. Even if he pulls the bat back as the pitcher is in the wind up, that puts doubt in the minds of the infielders and LaRussa as to whether or not he's going to bunt. That should cause the corner infielders to play back more giving Yuni more leeway for the bunt so it just has to be decent to good instead of perfect.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I think everyone feels the same about letting Yuni bunt, but is it really all on RR's shoulders? Shouldn't a MLB hitter be able to drop a bunt down without having to burn another player (2 if you use a pitcher)? If Yuni succeeded and they still lost I'm sure no one would be pointing the finger at Roenicke.

Again, it is the managers' job to know if someone is not suited for a specific task. It doesn't matter that Yuni should be able to bunt, he apparently is not suited for it. Roenicke put the team in a position to fail, by not putting the guy more suited for the task at the plate. Like someone else said, Shaq SHOULD be able to shoot free throws, but he can't, so you take him out late in games with small leads.

 

And yes, Counsell could have failed as well, but the point of managing is to give your guys the best chance to success, and RR didn't do that.