Impressions of Roenicke so far (part 3)

[monty57]

I didn't like Roenicke playing Kotsay over Morgan when Hart was hurt, and I didn't like him playing Kotsay back-to-back days in CF when Gomez & Morgan were healthy. Since then, Roenicke seems to be using Kotsay a little better.

 

I thought Boggs should've beaten him out from the beginning, but the team kept Kotsay and Reed over Boggs, and didn't play him when he was called up, so who knows if we'd have been better off with Boggs over Kotsay. I never wanted Gamel up as a pinch hitter, wasting a year's service time to get 200 PAs as a pinch hitter. I would like Gamel up now to add another good bat to a lineup struggling to score runs, but there are already threads talking about this.

 

My feeling is that Roenicke likes guys he's seen and is comfortable with. That has probably hurt us by not bringing up Green earlier, and not playing Hairston more at SS once we acquired him (although part of that is keeping Counsell/Wilson over Carroll and Weeks getting hurt). It may or may not have hurt us with Kotsay, as I don't know how Boggs would've played if given Kotsay's 240 or so PAs. I do think it could come to hurt us in the future if he indeed refuses to play young guys over vets, as with out payroll, we need to get rookies into the starting lineup. I'll get my answer on that when we see what they do at 1B/3B in the offseason.

[Raw Biz]

I had a lot of issues with his usage early in the season when everyone was healthy for sure though.

 

Couldn't it be possible that usage then both helped Kotsay be capable of pinch hitting as successfully as he has and kept the regulars playing at their peak at this point in the season? I said back then that I think it's a good idea to play bench players often early. It appears to have played out correctly in that we now have a useful pinch hitter and regulars playing as well now as they did early. Playing time decisions can't all be about that immediate game. There has to be some thought put towards how each player can be used to be effective throughout the season. Sometimes that may mean playing someone that gives you less of a chance to win that particular game. I can't see how rotting on the bench early helps that player become more useful as the season wears on. I also can't see how playing regulars all the time until they drop in the field helps win more games over the course of a full season. To me all Ron did early was properly plan ahead.

I don't think this is the case at all. Why didn't they play Kotsay more at first in the beginning then and sit Prince? Prince could've hit 50 HR again but he's probably worn out from playing everyday. I just don't buy into this. I could understand sitting older players early in the season so they don't break down towards the end but not guys like Morgan/Gomez/Hart.

I also don't think you can draw the conclusion that your so-called strategy worked simply because Kotsay has done decent as a PH and Morgan/Hart are still playing well. Morgan/Hart are playing well because they are pretty good players. I don't think lack of playing time at the beginning of the year has anything to do with it. Also, people weren't so upset that a 4th/5th OF was getting playing time. They were upset that that player was Kotsay and he was starting over Morgan/Gomez.

Finally, I don't think Roenicke's use of Kotsay was because he thought Morgan/Gomez/Hart would break down if they played all the time. I think it was because he genuinely thought Kotsay was good and a better option than Morgan, until Morgan started out lights out and forced his hand.

 

[monty57]

Finally, I don't think Roenicke's use of Kotsay was because he thought Morgan/Gomez/Hart would break down if they played all the time. I think it was because he genuinely thought Kotsay was good and a better option than Morgan, until Morgan started out lights out and forced his hand.

 

He did make a comment to the effect of "I don't think Hart's the type of guy you want playing every day," and said he felt this way because he saw him during a Spring Training game a few years ago. Thankfully, Hart started out on a tear, forcing Roenicke to play him. I have little doubt that if Hart had struggled out of the gate, he would have been platooned with Kotsay.

[Glennron]

The Brewers have had two of the last nine days off. They'll have this upcoming Thursday and Friday off before the playoffs start. Is there one legitimate reason Kotsay should be starting in centerfield? If Roenicke doesn't care who the team plays in the first round, he might as well bench his superstars too.

[greeg35]

The sad part is rr thinks this this gives them the best chance to win, despite the fact the we have two center fielders who are at least as good as kotsay with the bat and are both significantly better in the field. Oh well, these types of bad decisions have been being made all year and we still have 90+ wins. I'm thankful we have a first rate pitching staff and two mvp candidates to cover for them.

[Baldkin]

Mark Kotsay: CF, Nyjer Morgan: LF.

 

That is worse than the Machian: Jim Edmonds: CF, Carlos Gomez: RF.

[UeckerAddict]

Finally, I don't think Roenicke's use of Kotsay was because he thought Morgan/Gomez/Hart would break down if they played all the time. I think it was because he genuinely thought Kotsay was good and a better option than Morgan, until Morgan started out lights out and forced his hand.

 

He did make a comment to the effect of "I don't think Hart's the type of guy you want playing every day," and said he felt this way because he saw him during a Spring Training game a few years ago. Thankfully, Hart started out on a tear, forcing Roenicke to play him. I have little doubt that if Hart had struggled out of the gate, he would have been platooned with Kotsay.

This is about the third or fourth time I've seen this misquote attributed to Roenicke on this board (or at least taken out of context). I guess it's my turn to be the one to say that this quote was meant for when Hart was coming back from injury and he wanted to ease him back in.

[greeg35]

Roenicke is also a firm believer that regular-season statistics are not always an accurate indicator how a player is going to perform in the postseason. In that sense, he admitted he'll be managing by feel in some situations and using the numbers in others. "Playoffs are different. It's a different animal," Roenicke said. "You don't know who's going to come through. We all know (McGehee's) got a high end. We all know where the other guys' high ends are. Jerry Hairston is not a young guy. Counsell is not a young guy. We know what they're going to do. So those are the options that you have to weigh. "And we are going to look at matchups. Is a guy way stronger against right-handers than against lefties? What have our guys done against them in the past? All of that stuff is going to be important to who we play in the playoffs."

 

 

Wow that sound great. And how is this different than the crappy way you made decisions all year?

[DuWayne Steurer]

"Playoffs are different. It's a different animal," Roenicke said. "You

don't know who's going to come through. We all know (McGehee's) got a

high end. We all know where the other guys' high ends are. Jerry

Hairston is not a young guy. Counsell is not a young guy. We know what

they're going to do. So those are the options that you have to weigh.

 

So basically, as I read between the lines here, what RRR is saying is that, "I know Hairston has a .720 OPS this year, and McGehee sucks, but McGehee has had an .800 OPS in the past, and Hairston is old, so we're going to take our chances with the guy who hasn't hit worth a damn in a year."

That he's even HINTING that he's basing his playoff decision making on this kind of stuff, when Hairston's clearly outplaying McGehee in every way right now just boggles my mind. I wonder how many O'fers and double plays Casey will manage before he gets pulled?

[Ennder]

I actually read that as McGehee isn't going to play every day because it is the playoffs and not the regular season, not sure how anyone reads that as Hairston isn't going to play. If anything it says Green won't get to play.

[endaround]

I actually read that as McGehee isn't going to play every day because it is the playoffs and not the regular season, not sure how anyone reads that as Hairston isn't going to play. If anything it says Green won't get to play.

He compared Hairston to Counsell. You think Counsell has a shot at starting a game?

[TooLiveBrew]

"Is a guy way stronger against right-handers than against lefties? What have our guys done against them in the past?"

 

I read this to mean that Counsell or maybe even Green have a shot at playing here at the end of the season if the opposing starter is a righty that McGehee has poor stats against. But I definitely took the McGehee/playoffs comment to mean Casey is going to be back in that starting role.

[RockCoCougars]

I think that it's a safe assumption that both Hairston and Counsell will start at least one playoff game.

[markedman5]

RR giving Braun the day off.........We are fighting for the 2 seed, he is our best player, we have 3 games to go......and he will have thursday and friday off this week.......

 

Does he look like he needs a day off? How about waiting until Weds and if we have it clinched then give him the day?

 

6-11 against Morton (small sample I know)......

[trwi7]

I'm okay with giving Braun a day off. What I'm not okay with is batting Kotsay 3rd.

 

Do something like this.

 

Morgan

Hairston

Hart

Fielder

Weeks

Kotsay

Betancourt

Lucroy

Marcum

 

If those are the players you're going to use, at least use a lineup that makes sense.

[Ennder]

I actually read that as McGehee isn't going to play every day because it is the playoffs and not the regular season, not sure how anyone reads that as Hairston isn't going to play. If anything it says Green won't get to play.

He compared Hairston to Counsell. You think Counsell has a shot at starting a game?

Well yeah I do, but he compared them in the sense that you know what they are going to give you because they have been around. To me it sounds like he isn't going to play Green because he doesn't know what to expect. I personally read that as McGehee is not going to start every day unless he turns things around in a hurry here and Green probably won't get to start either.

[GamelToe]

Three things I noticed last night:

 

(1) Big ups to keeping Axford in the game. He was excellent in the 10th.

(2) Big ups for the Gomez/Nyjer/Hart swap. It came out huge at the end even though I was wondering why Hart got pulled (was definitely for defense, but came out big in offense)

(3) Big ups for recognizing the squeeze play. Too bad Axford/Fielder got messed up. They definitely had fair warning w/ Roenicke yelling it from the dugout.

[jjfanec]

Three things I noticed last night:

 

(1) Big ups to keeping Axford in the game. He was excellent in the 10th.

(2) Big ups for the Gomez/Nyjer/Hart swap. It came out huge at the end even though I was wondering why Hart got pulled (was definitely for defense, but came out big in offense)

(3) Big ups for recognizing the squeeze play. Too bad Axford/Fielder got messed up. They definitely had fair warning w/ Roenicke yelling it from the dugout.

A effort from Ron last night. He pushed the right buttons. I actually think we could see that same OF if we make the World Series for games we need a DH. Axford staying was brilliant. He really only gave up one solid hit in the 9th. There was a bloop and the bunt. Saito looked great. I probably would have pulled KRod in the 8th because he looked like he just didnt have it but it worked out.

 

The squeeze play is on Prince in my mind. When your manager is screaming at you to watch the squeeze and you are that late getting there something was wrong.

[TauPentaRei]

I probably would have pulled KRod in the 8th because he looked like he just didnt have it but it worked out.

this is worth mentioning again... how totally polarly opposite of a management style is this from LaRussa, who has no qualms using 6 pitchers in an inning?

and how much positive affect does this have on the relievers, who realize you get the inning and the whole inning. buckle down, trust your stuff, get 3 outs.

I think it's huge. You get squeezed, someone bloops a flare, you miss a spot... anyone can have a bad at-bat. but so can the next reliever, too. leaving K-Rod in there is total accountability for the inning, and K-Rod knew that going in.

I, for one, appreciate this aspect of RR.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm really happy for Roenicke. That was honestly one of the first thoughts to pop into my head after the initial delirium last night.

[Glennron]

A) Using McGehee as a pinch hitter with all four lefties available still.

B) Bunting with Weeks, who is never really asked to, plus if it was successful they would've walked Hairston to get to Betancourt with the bases loaded. I'll at least look past the second part I guess since Betancourt looked better than Weeks at the plate in the series.

C) I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned anywhere, but Kameron Loe was warming up in the bullpen when Gallardo was struggling a bit to get out of the 6th. Not only is he at best the 3rd best option there (Saito and Hawkins, plus I'd rather see Greinke than Loe there), but there was a lefty on deck for Arizona. I guess there's no telling if he would've brought him in or not, but the fact that it got that close is maddening.

 

I liked some stuff that he did throughout the series as well, but I still don't totally trust him to not cost the Brewers a game in the NLCS.

[logan82]

I liked some stuff that he did throughout the series as well, but I still don't totally trust him to not cost the Brewers a game in the NLCS.

You forgot replacing Weeks and Hat on defense but still leaving Yuni in. It is unfortunate but I feel the same way. We won but his decision making has been pretty suspect.

[TGJforPrez]

logan3825]

Glennron wrote:

I liked some stuff that he did throughout the series as well, but I still don't totally trust him to not cost the Brewers a game in the NLCS.

You forgot replacing Weeks and Hat on defense but still leaving Yuni in. It is unfortunate but I feel the same way. We won but his decision making has been pretty suspect.

How about the fact that Rickie made last out and CC was put in on a double switch. Which of course allowed Axford to pitch two innings. Morgan had misplayed three balls in the series in center, including one in the sixth inning that cost Yo 20 extra pitches.

[fondybrewfan]

I thought RR was superb in the Division Series and thoroughly outmanaged Gibson. He subsituted the defense in when we needed it and put a lot of faith in Axford to go out there again. Since Rickie is still a little hobbled, CC is probably the better defensive 2B right now; plus like has been mentioned the move allowed Axford to stay out there for an extra inning. Rickie was basically useless all series anyways. If you put in CC at 2B you have to leave Yuni in unless you want to shift Hairston over to SS and bring in Green to 3rd; that would have completed decimated the bench when there was a good possibilty of extra innings. RR has handled the playoffs very well so far IMO. Lets see how he does against the evil mastermind that is TLR

[Thurston Fluff]

You forgot replacing Weeks and Hat on defense but still leaving Yuni

in. It is unfortunate but I feel the same way. We won but his decision

making has been pretty suspect.

Man did that ever backfire when Yuni totally botched the play to give the lead to AZ.